Khemikal796 Posted February 10, 2011 Posted February 10, 2011 Does it matter if she benches for a different team/no team? Does the relationship between the two submitters really matter if they are using different hardware? What if it's two benchers that live together but not related? What if two members of the same team become family in some way? Does the actual building of residence really matter? How would you handle two members located 300 miles away but part of the same 'household'? This will lead to nothing but nasty precedence if both can't support the same team. Ultimately this would mean any set of people of the same 'household' couldn't have any two or more members supporting the same team. Would anyone really want someone that close to them supporting someone they are competing against?
Massman Posted February 10, 2011 Posted February 10, 2011 There's a difference between two family members benching competely different hardware on different locations and a 12-year old girl getting help from her father taking her first steps in the world of overclocking in the same house. -sigh- Seriously ... I mean, seriously??? Are you not getting the problem? Just looking for that +300p team point boost? No matter what? //edit: New members joined my team today, here's the list: - "Massman's father" - "Massman's brother" - "Massman's sister" - "Massman's brother-in-law" - "Massman's nephew" - "Massman's girlfriend" - "Massman's secret girlfriend #2" - "Massman's wife in Holland" - "Massman's wife in France" - "Massman's great-grand-father" - "Massman's 6y old niece" - "Massman's 13y old niece" - "Massman's aunt" They are just getting into the game, but they all look very promising. I hope one day they will be in the top-20!
miahallen Posted February 10, 2011 Posted February 10, 2011 For me, it has nothing to do with the points, it's about 1 thing - October. This is what I hear for you: 1) If you would like to create a fake account to boost your team points, please do not make it obvious. 2) You you'd like to make two legitimate accounts like dejo & his daugher, you cannot, because we're worried about #1 -- HWBOT
Massman Posted February 10, 2011 Posted February 10, 2011 No. She can bench, she can have an account, she can have points she can have a team ("OCForums Rookies", "OCForums New Gen", ...). The only thing that is not done is for this 12-year old girl's account to contribute to the same team as her father's account. Decision taken, case closed, thread closed.
Massman Posted February 10, 2011 Posted February 10, 2011 Fine - thread's open again. Better to have a single 'discussion' here than scattered all over the interweb. Anyway, just found out even more family joined the team: - "Massman's grand-mother" - "Massman's nephew" - "Massman's long lost evil twin brother" - "Massman's adopted brother" - "Massman's sugerdaddy" - "Massman's uncle" - "Massman's secret girlfriend #3"
Christian Ney Posted February 10, 2011 Posted February 10, 2011 (edited) lol Is that true ? link plz Edited February 10, 2011 by Christian Ney
Eldonko Posted February 10, 2011 Posted February 10, 2011 I think the ruling is fair and to go further I think that if you are in the same household then you should have a combined account. Then you avoid this whole situation where people question every result. Wouldnt you rather bench as a team anyway?
Brolloks Posted February 10, 2011 Posted February 10, 2011 What really upsets me off is the discriminating way against family and age groups...so it is fine for a bunch of friends/students living in the same house/town to have separate accounts and submit scores, but it is "too suspicious" for two family members to have separate accounts and bench with separate hardware....that is just too hard to swallow !!!
Christian Ney Posted February 10, 2011 Posted February 10, 2011 Yeah, but if you are like me that love points and achievements and cups, you want to have your own account
Bobnova Posted February 10, 2011 Posted February 10, 2011 What sort of proof would you want that dejo's daughter is real and doing the benching? Talk to her on the phone about basic tweaks? Skype? Video chat? Video chat displaying the two sets of hardware and talking about benching and tweaks and such? It looks to me like Dejo and his daughter's crime was to be up front and honest about themselves. They followed the rules perfectly, even checked to make sure it was OK before they started. I can understand Massman's point, it's not hard to come up with fictitious relatives, but rather then simply say "NO only ONE family member per team!", why not simply check to make sure they're a real person? This whole thing would never have happened if Dejo's Daughter had a different account name, after all. What if I get a friend of mine interested in joining OCF and benching and coach him? Surely this is resolvable in a way that doesn't stomp on dejo's daughter's goals in life (helping the team that she met and likes, and making some of the members of said team look silly in the team rankings, plus of course benching. Last time I checked getting women into benching was a good idea).
Christian Ney Posted February 10, 2011 Posted February 10, 2011 little update The key issue here is contributing positively to the community by understanding that having a separate account for your daughter might make other people suspicious. It might also make other people consider the option of have a virtual aunt/uncle/nephew/son/mother/grand-mother/... to join their team and generate more points. In other words, it's not so much a problem of trust or legitimacy, but rather the hope that someone takes other people's wishes into consideration as well. I actually formulated multiple scenarios which would allow Dejo and his daughter to bond over Overclocking without it having the perception of someone just adding multiple accounts to generate more points. I really hope this is not going to turn out to be a big deal. All we asked for is not to use two separate accounts that both generate points for a single team in order to not cause other people (who might not know the background story) to think something wrong is happening. Maybe the idea having 2 different account but merged for the team points, Doing so, they will have their own account, own points, but for team total it's going to be a merge of scores and only best results will count for team total. If it's just the team points problem Or wait for rev4
Brolloks Posted February 10, 2011 Posted February 10, 2011 It is not about gaining or loosing team points...here we have a young, female bencher with a lot of talent and potential and who has worked hard to get the points...being chopped off just because some people find it "suspicious" is very sad and short sighted from bot management IMO, it sends a very wrong message and will discourage other youngsters joining our fraternity.
Massman Posted February 10, 2011 Posted February 10, 2011 It looks to me like Dejo and his daughter's crime was to be up front and honest about themselves. They followed the rules perfectly, even checked to make sure it was OK before they started. Dejo asked me via PM if it would be okay to create an account for his daughter. I said, back then, the same I'm saying here. After my PM was sent, I heard back nothing and the account was created anyway. After a while, these two scores were submit: - http://hwbot.org/community/submission/2105213_dejo_3dmark03_geforce_gtx_480_122636_marks - http://hwbot.org/community/submission/2105222_dejos_daughter_3dmark03_geforce_gtx_480_120286_marks I'm quite sure our mod-alerts would've gone off even without the clear 'dejos daughter' name. I would really hope this is not going to turn into a big deal. I'm kinda losing hope right now, though.
GoD_tattoo Posted February 10, 2011 Posted February 10, 2011 It is not about gaining or loosing team points...here we have a young, female bencher with a lot of talent and potential and who has worked hard to get the points...being chopped off just because some people find it "suspicious" is very sad and short sighted from bot management IMO, it sends a very wrong message and will discourage other youngsters joining our fraternity. But...Had she just made a regular name and never said anything then this wouldn't be an issue. But because they were out in the open, this happens. Doesn't make sense to me.
vasgto Posted February 10, 2011 Posted February 10, 2011 Sarcasm isn't helpful or funny. I think you understand where I'm coming from? I'd like to see you at least acknowledge that I have a point. But, based on the lack of other comments, I guess I'm alone on this, so I will stop now. My guess is that if more people were made aware of this situation, then I'd have hundreds on my side of the argument, but as of right now this seems to be a one....err two (thanks themaddutchdude) man fight, and you're too stubborn for that to be effective You are not alone... I was going to voice my opinion on Jan 26, 2011 but I figured you would have more OCF members coming in to help out. What you need to remember is that you're arguing with the maturity level of a 21 year old ??? His title should read massboy. Arguing with him is worse than arguing with my son, who happens to be 20 a year old. I recall a discussion that went something like this... HWBOT wanted to be a "governing authority" over the entire overclocking community. Massboy has it backwards... the entire overclocking community needs to govern HWBOT. P.S. Massboy, no need to provoke me.... I'm done posting for this month
Brolloks Posted February 10, 2011 Posted February 10, 2011 (edited) It is a big deal as you (massman) is questioning the integrity of two people I have met in person and who I respect. By denying her and her dad to have their own accounts you are accusing them of cheating, I have worked with dejo on this and trust him 100%, he has much more under his skin to put the team at risk by submitting shared hardware scores Edited February 10, 2011 by Brolloks
Earthdog Posted February 10, 2011 Posted February 10, 2011 After a while, these two scores were submit: - http://hwbot.org/community/submission/2105213_dejo_3dmark03_geforce_gtx_480_122636_marks - http://hwbot.org/community/submission/2105222_dejos_daughter_3dmark03_geforce_gtx_480_120286_marks I'm quite sure our mod-alerts would've gone off even without the clear 'dejos daughter' name. I would really hope this is not going to turn into a big deal. I'm kinda losing hope right now, though. Whats wrong with that? Same CPU and different GPU's are allowed right? I think these two have PICTURES of their different GPU's they have. Even labeled so they know they arent using each others for Pete's sake! No offense, but I lost hope the second the ruling came down. This is just the aftermath of said decision. Thats what one gets for being as honest as they come I suppose.
Massman Posted February 10, 2011 Posted February 10, 2011 It is a big deal as you (massman) is questioning the integrity of two people I have met in person and who I respect. By denying her to have her own account you are accusing them of cheating, I have worked with dejo on this and trust him 100%, he has much more under his skin to put the team at risk by submitting shared hardware scores No ... it's not. Seriously, we are all fine with everything besides the two accounts generating points for the same team. And that for very simple, logic reasons. Pick any other combination of - allowed to bench: yes/no - have own account: yes/no - have points: yes/no - be in a team: yes/no Any other combination is just fine, no problem. Just the one that doesn't generate team points ... Why are those team points so important?
Brolloks Posted February 10, 2011 Posted February 10, 2011 The problem here is that this is being deemed unacceptable based solely on appearances....if this unwritten policy against appearances was applied to all of HWBOT right now, it would be a bloody nightmare...and a large number of submissions would need serious attention.
Massman Posted February 10, 2011 Posted February 10, 2011 Thats what one gets for being as honest as they come I suppose. That's very wrong reasoning. What you're saying is: "as long as we're up front, we can do what we want". Dejo asked hwbot what our stance was, we made clear it would be considered faul play, and he did what he wanted anyway. It's not because it's 'obvious' it's suddenly okay again. Again, we are not punishing anyone. It's not an accusation of cheating. It's not about guilt or anything like that. In fact, all this was just because hwbot asked if it was possible to take other community members into consideration. Apparently that is not possible
Christian Ney Posted February 10, 2011 Posted February 10, 2011 Remember, there is nothing against the fact that she is 12 years old, his daughter, living in the same house, have different but same hardware. The fact is that was going to be a bit suspicious for other members, it was to prevent that. This thread goes in all wrong directions
Brolloks Posted February 10, 2011 Posted February 10, 2011 No ... it's not. Seriously, we are all fine with everything besides the two accounts generating points for the same team. And that for very simple, logic reasons. Who is this "we"?? Pick any other combination of - allowed to bench: yes/no - have own account: yes/no - have points: yes/no - be in a team: yes/no Any other combination is just fine, no problem. Just the one that doesn't generate team points ... Why are those team points so important? You dont get it, I said I dont care about the team points, she has chosen to be with the OCF team, why cant her boints go to the team she has chosen?
Gunslinger Posted February 10, 2011 Posted February 10, 2011 This might be one of the most ridiculous things I've seen HWBot do in my time here. Its 2 different people, with separate hardware, on the same team, end of story. They're playing by the rules in place, and to try and separate her from the team based someone else's perceived idea of possible hardware sharing is absurd. I hope she gets invited to a live event some day and whips all your asses.
Massman Posted February 10, 2011 Posted February 10, 2011 Who is this "we"?? The staff's stance on this is pretty unanimous/ You dont get it, I said I dont care about the team points, she has chosen to be with the OCF team, why cant her boints go to the team she has chosen? Is Dejo prepared to give up his account's points so his daughter can be with OCF? That's also fine.
Brolloks Posted February 10, 2011 Posted February 10, 2011 This might be one of the most ridiculous things I've seen HWBot do in my time here. Its 2 different people, with separate hardware, on the same team, end of story. They're playing by the rules in place, and to try and separate her from the team based someone else's perceived idea of possible hardware sharing is absurd. I hope she gets invited to a live event some day and whips all your asses. Thank you very much, maybe massman can see the light after reading this 100 tiimes
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