Mr.Scott Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 (edited) This might be one of the most ridiculous things I've seen HWBot do in my time here. Its 2 different people, with separate hardware, on the same team, end of story. They're playing by the rules in place, and to try and separate her from the team based someone else's perceived idea of possible hardware sharing is absurd. This. ^^^ You've always stated that HWBot will take no action without undeniable proof......well, show the proof that they're sharing, or have intent to share. Edited February 10, 2011 by Mr.Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Ney Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massman Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Its 2 different people, with separate hardware, on the same team, end of story. They're playing by the rules in place, and to try and separate her from the team based someone else's perceived idea of possible hardware sharing is absurd. Without looking at the rankings, which of these two scores is done by 'Dejo's daughter' ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Scott Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Without looking at the rankings, which of these two scores is done by 'Dejo's daughter' ? Irrelevant. Prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that they're done by the same person or are using shared hardware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massman Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Irrelevant. Prove that they're done by the same person or are using shared hardware. Oh, is that how it is? Cool, so no more complaints of people accusing others of cheating, sharing hardware and sharing scores? Yeey! The future of HWBOT staff looks so bright! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunslinger Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 How does it matter if the submissions both meet the submission rules in place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brolloks Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 (edited) Is Dejo prepared to give up his account's points so his daughter can be with OCF? That's also fine. Would you please explain how that would make the wrong decision you made right? You know this has not only left a young bencher discouraged but it is leaving a very bad taste in my team's mouth, how can rules be taken down by mere suspicions as it was in this case. If organizations are run on suspicions rather than rules would the world not be a mess or what??? Edited February 10, 2011 by Brolloks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miahallen Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Oh, is that how it is? Cool, so no more complaints of people accusing others of cheating, sharing hardware and sharing scores? Yeey! The future of HWBOT staff looks so bright! So you are accusing them of cheating then....quite a 180 there [completely disgusted] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Scott Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Oh, is that how it is? Cool, so no more complaints of people accusing others of cheating, sharing hardware and sharing scores? Yeey! The future of HWBOT staff looks so bright! Not at all. Is this not the stance you've taken with everybody else from day one? Refering to the "actions without proof" of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miahallen Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Without looking at the rankings, which of these two scores is done by 'Dejo's daughter' ? Seriously.....well, whos CPU is this then Massman....yours or Thomas's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattNo5ss Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 (edited) No ... it's not. Seriously, we are all fine with everything besides the two accounts generating points for the same team. And that for very simple, logic reasons. Pick any other combination of - allowed to bench: yes/no - have own account: yes/no - have points: yes/no - be in a team: yes/no Any other combination is just fine, no problem. Just the one that doesn't generate team points ... Why are those team points so important? The "very simple, logic reason" why both accounts should be able to generate points (if both parties want to) is b/c neither party broke any HWBot rules with their submissions. What would be the difference in Dejo + his 12yr old daughter -vs- me + my 22yr old brother -vs- 2 unrelated people living together -vs- 2 related people not living together? As long as the rules are followed, all submissions should be allowed for points if those people chose to submit for points. There cannot be a rule put in place that limits accounts per household or accounts per family, because that would prevent the growth of overclocking as a competitive sport. Which I believe is the point of HWBot in the first place. It's easiest to get people you are close to or even live with involved in something you like to do since they see you doing it all the time. Once those people get involved, they try to get people they are close to invovled, etc. That's how growth happens. Of course, growth can be had through forums' bench teams, but why limit the growth to the internet when the most fun benching happens when people do it together, in person? As mentioned before, the actual points lost aren't the major concern here, I mean it's only 300 which can be had with some cheap 8800 GPUs. The problem is that 2 people who aren't trying to hide anything, being open about what's going on, and submitting legal scores are being told to only submit for points with one account so it doesn't seem like cheating (even though they're not cheating). One party is having the option to submit for points taken away for doing everything openly and legally. So, it's having that option taken away that is bothersome, not having the points taken away. If they chose to not submit for points just b/c of what other people may think, then that's their decision. But, they should still have the option to submit for points if they so chose since they are doing nothing wrong. Edited February 10, 2011 by MattNo5ss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massman Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Would you please explain how that would make the wrong decision you made right? You know this has not only left a young bencher discouraged but it is leaving a very bad taste in my team's mouth, how can rules be taken down by mere suspicions as it was in this case. If organizations are run on suspicions rather than rules would the world not be a mess or what??? Highly philosophical. First of all, the decision is right. Therefore, it wouldn't make anything right. Secondly, I hope October does not get the impression that the fun in overclocking is only defined by the amount of points you gather or can contribute to a team. In fact, I would be the first in line to scream that overclocking is fun regardless of the points that can be earned at hwbot! Perhaps this might even be a blessing in disguise! Instead of October learning that overclocking (metaphore for 'life') can only be enjoyed when receiving points (metaphore for 'money'), she can learn it can also be enjoyed when doing it with friends (metaphore for 'friends'). Or, alternatively, she can have her own account, with points (so compete against her father) but don't contribute to the team. Or, father and daughter can work together to boost the team points. So you are accusing them of cheating then....quite a 180 there [completely disgusted] I was being ironic. (shouts at sky) "damn you internet" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miahallen Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 If you want irony, check my post #60 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massman Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 For the record, I once again want to say that no one at HWBOT thinks Dejo is cheating. We also believe he is honest and up front. All we ask for is for him to take into account the other community members and how they might perceive this action. Not at all. Is this not the stance you've taken with everybody else from day one?Refering to the "actions without proof" of course. Moderating at HWBOT isn't exact science. Sadly enough, we don't have the support of a scientific research team to find fingerprints or dna-evidence. It's a pity, would've really loved to see an episode of 'CSI The Bot'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Ney Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Moderating at HWBOT isn't exact science. Sadly enough, we don't have the support of a scientific research team to find fingerprints or dna-evidence. It's a pity, would've really loved to see an episode of 'CSI The Bot'. I will keep this one somewhere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Scott Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Moderating at HWBOT isn't exact science. Sadly enough, we don't have the support of a scientific research team to find fingerprints or dna-evidence. It's a pity, would've really loved to see an episode of 'CSI The Bot'. I understand that, but consistancy in enforcement can be upheld. Also, I find the sarcasm you use when backed into a corner, amusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brolloks Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 For the record, I once again want to say that no one at HWBOT thinks Dejo is cheating. We also believe he is honest and up front. All we ask for is for him to take into account the other community members and how they might perceive this action. So what is the difference accusing someone of cheating or voicing your perception that that person might be cheating? Why on earth are we taking decisions on how people might perceive actions, what happened to good intentions and respecting people's intentions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Scott Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 So what is the difference accusing someone of cheating or voicing your perception that that person might be cheating? Why on earth are we taking decisions on how people might perceive actions, what happened to good intentions and respecting people intentions? Oh, you didn't know?....It depends on who you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earthdog Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 (edited) For the record, I once again want to say that no one at HWBOT thinks Dejo is cheating. We also believe he is honest and up front. All we ask for is for him to take into account the other community members and how they might perceive this action.Im curious. How many members brought this up? How many members, think this? Then, lets put the evidence in front of them, adding to the fact that even you dont think they are cheating, and see what the members think. Seems to me only 1 post in this entire thread believes that??? So instead of supporting the facts and your beliefs you are rolling over b/c of other people's perception? I can read between the lines on that one... So what is the difference accusing someone of cheating or voicing your perception that that person might be cheating? Why on earth are we taking decisions on how people might perceive actions, what happened to good intentions and respecting people's intentions?GAH! Yeah this.... Edited February 10, 2011 by Earthdog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunslinger Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 For the record, I once again want to say that no one at HWBOT thinks Dejo is cheating. Then why the double standard for Dejo and his daughter? We also believe he is honest and up front. Alot of good that did him. All we ask for is for him to take into account the other community members and how they might perceive this action. The people that are saying HWBot's double standard is wrong, aren't we also "other community members" ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massman Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 The "very simple, logic reason" why both accounts should be able to generate points (if both parties want to) is b/c neither party broke any HWBot rules with their submissions. What would be the difference in Dejo + his 12yr old daughter -vs- me + my 22yr old brother -vs- 2 unrelated people living together -vs- 2 related people not living together? As long as the rules are followed, all submissions should be allowed for points if those people chose to submit for points. There cannot be a rule put in place that limits accounts per household or accounts per family, because that would prevent the growth of overclocking as a competitive sport. Which I believe is the point of HWBot in the first place. It's easiest to get people you are close to or even live with involved in something you like to do since they see you doing it all the time. Once those people get involved, they try to get people they are close to invovled, etc. That's how growth happens. Of course, growth can be had through forums' bench teams, but why limit the growth to the internet when the most fun benching happens when people do it together, in person? As mentioned before, the actual points lost aren't the major concern here, I mean it's only 300 which can be had with some cheap 8800 GPUs. The problem is that 2 people who aren't trying to hide anything, being open about what's going on, and submitting legal scores are being told to only submit for points with one account so it doesn't seem like cheating (even though they're not cheating). One party is having the option to submit for points taken away for doing everything openly and legally. So, it's having that option taken away that is bothersome, not having the points taken away. If they chose to not submit for points just b/c of what other people may think, then that's their decision. But, they should still have the option to submit for points if they so chose since they are doing nothing wrong. Yes, you have a valid point. I fully agree that's the way it should be. As I mentioned earlier, when I first read that Dejo and his daughter were bonding over this hobby, I smiled ear to ear. I think it's awesome and absolutely wish more people would get have this with family and friends. BUT! Every day I have to face HWBOT/internet reality. Although I absolutely do not like myself asking for his daughter to not bench for points, something I think i've proven by given a dozen of alternative ways for Dejo and his daughter to bond over this hobby, I have to take into account that a large majority of the HWBOT community might not understand this particular situation. Not the daughter benching, but the team getting a boost in points by an account that can easily be perceived as 'double account to generate extra points'. I would be crushed to find out Dejo's daughter would have to face the cheating accusations of people who are unaware of the situation at home. But, from years of HWBOT experience, I know there would be a tipping point when the daughter account would generate so much points people would start to complain in public. So, that's why we've suggested all the alternatives. Actually, when Dejo ignored my PM and just created the account anyway, we closed our eyes for a while as the account was not really generating lots of points. When the first set of scores came in, we asked Dejo what's up, got a 'reasonable' explanation and, again, closed our eyes assuming this was just a one-time thing. Today, that account is generating 300+ points ... which is quite a lot. I might be out of line here, but I guess if the daughter's account would just have low-end hardware, none of which also in Dejo's account and reasonably low total score, it would've been under the radar for sure. Like I said, we closed eyes twice. We undertook several more attempts to solve this matter quietly and another moderator than myself tried to explain the situation and give some suggestions to solve the issue. Not to 'be corrupt', but just so his daughter could enjoy all the benching and other community members would not be upset about this 'weird' account generating a significant amount of points for the team. We don't accuse anyone (if we did, the account would've been banned), we don't try to punish anyone, all we want to forsee problems in (hwbot's) reality and address them before they occur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miahallen Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Actually, when Dejo ignored my PM and just created the account anyway, we closed our eyes for a while as the account was not really generating lots of points. When the first set of scores came in, we asked Dejo what's up, got a 'reasonable' explanation and, again, closed our eyes assuming this was just a one-time thing. Today, that account is generating 300+ points ... which is quite a lot. I do not have first hand knowledge...but for the record: dejo claims to have replied to all PMs within 24 hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massman Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 So what is the difference accusing someone of cheating or voicing your perception that that person might be cheating? It's the difference between having a gun, blood on your shirt and a long-standing rivalery with the dead person lying next to you in the dark alley ... and actually making the kill. what happened to good intentions and respecting people's intentions? Exactly, what happened to them? Why is it not possible for Dejo to compromise? Why does it have to be AND account AND points AND the same team? Why is it 'only this way' or 'still only this way'? Why is it so difficult to respect that it's possible other people might be suspicious (= bad feelings) about this account and just find a way for them not to be suspicious (= no bad feelings)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earthdog Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 (edited) But in this case, he showed he has the same type shirt and gun but with no blood on it....he just happened to be at the cafe around the corner when the murder happened. Bad conicidence. LOL! Why is it so difficult for you/the staff to stand up for what you believe in and what has been proven right? Edited February 10, 2011 by Earthdog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miahallen Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Why is it so difficult to respect that it's possible other people might be suspicious (= bad feelings) about this account and just find a way for them not to be suspicious (= no bad feelings)? Please refer to post #60 and set a good example...then we will happily follow suite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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