Crew Leeghoofd Posted December 18, 2022 Crew Posted December 18, 2022 We are still waiiting for the 4080 not able to enable ECC issue to take a final decision/ However in my eyes and stated already several times bnefore, it is up to the benchmark developers that need to take action and rectify the flaws in their system monitoring and Validation check. Hopefully the new GPUZ version will show ECC enabled or not... that would already be something in the right direction for older benchmarks Quote
spit051261 Posted December 18, 2022 Posted December 18, 2022 Is ECC only applicable for 4090 and later models Alby ? Quote
Johnksss Posted December 18, 2022 Posted December 18, 2022 (edited) 8 hours ago, Leeghoofd said: We are still waiiting for the 4080 not able to enable ECC issue to take a final decision/ However in my eyes and stated already several times bnefore, it is up to the benchmark developers that need to take action and rectify the flaws in their system monitoring and Validation check. Hopefully the new GPUZ version will show ECC enabled or not... that would already be something in the right direction for older benchmarks Are you guys going to finish removing invalid 4090 benchmarks or not? I am starting the process of redoing them and trying to get the ones of mine in question deleted, but if that is not the case then I do not want to potentially have good scores deleted. Edited December 18, 2022 by Johnksss 1 Quote
Crew Leeghoofd Posted December 19, 2022 Crew Posted December 19, 2022 We will not remove any benchmarks from HWBOT for the RTX 40 series... submission wise we are still hoping for another UL fix and the GPUZ implementation.... 2 Quote
Johnksss Posted December 21, 2022 Posted December 21, 2022 On 12/19/2022 at 9:23 AM, Leeghoofd said: We will not remove any benchmarks from HWBOT for the RTX 40 series... submission wise we are still hoping for another UL fix and the GPUZ implementation.... This actually doesn't make any sense. So you are keeping the BS runs while new submitted runs are under scrutiny of the new ruling? Which makes them lower and slower runs unable to beat the bugged runs. That sounds very productive. 1 Quote
Crew Leeghoofd Posted December 21, 2022 Crew Posted December 21, 2022 Once more we will not remove benchmarks for RTX 4090, we will remove/re-enable submissions only after we get a clear view of what we can do to aid monitoring/moderation. Not sure what doesn't compute here... Quote
Mr. Fox Posted December 25, 2022 Posted December 25, 2022 On 12/21/2022 at 2:54 PM, Leeghoofd said: Once more we will not remove benchmarks for RTX 4090, we will remove/re-enable submissions only after we get a clear view of what we can do to aid monitoring/moderation. Not sure what doesn't compute here... Hi bro. I think the point John was making is someone actually did to him what you keep saying will not be done. I think it happened to others as well. So, you are saying you're going to stop doing that now because doing so was a mistake, or you were not aware that had already taken place? Have a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. Quote
saltycroissant Posted December 25, 2022 Posted December 25, 2022 2 hours ago, Mr. Fox said: Hi bro. I think the point John was making is someone actually did to him what you keep saying will not be done. I think it happened to others as well. So, you are saying you're going to stop doing that now because doing so was a mistake, or you were not aware that had already taken place? Have a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. The scores John got removed where 3090 SLI, is 4090 scores are all there even is port royal. 1 Quote
Johnksss Posted December 25, 2022 Posted December 25, 2022 Talking about before we even got to that point. 1 Quote
saltycroissant Posted December 25, 2022 Posted December 25, 2022 On 12/18/2022 at 12:57 AM, Leeghoofd said: We are still waiiting for the 4080 not able to enable ECC issue to take a final decision/ However in my eyes and stated already several times bnefore, it is up to the benchmark developers that need to take action and rectify the flaws in their system monitoring and Validation check. Hopefully the new GPUZ version will show ECC enabled or not... that would already be something in the right direction for older benchmarks This is the answer. Yes atm both ECC on/off score are on hwbot, from before and after the change of rules. We are just waiting for a fix to take a final decision and yes everyone will have to follow the same rule, no mix of both. Quote
Crew Leeghoofd Posted January 21, 2023 Crew Posted January 21, 2023 We will slowly start removing the newer RTX 4090 scores with ECC disabled, this to ensure user with new subs get a more clearer signal. We have observed some shenanigans again by users bending the rules for their own benefit... Our advice is to not bench these cards on LN2 or other extreme "expensive" cooling UL is still on it and monitoring... Quote
Papusan Posted January 21, 2023 Posted January 21, 2023 8 hours ago, Leeghoofd said: We will slowly start removing the newer RTX 4090 scores with ECC disabled, this to ensure user with new subs get a more clearer signal. We have observed some shenanigans again by users bending the rules for their own benefit... Our advice is to not bench these cards on LN2 or other extreme "expensive" cooling UL is still on it and monitoring... Hi. I saw one of you have blocked my 4090 Fire Strike Extreme subs. Reason. ECC disabled run. But I'm quite sure I had it Enabled. I don't even think older Fire strike benchmark offer driver status as ECC disabled/Enabled in their results summary. Or maybe LOD tweaks is one of the culprits (allowed for hwbot) for not show it up. I can't confirm this right now as I have returned the card. Maybe others can test out this with 4090. I mean every single Fire Strike Extreme benches posted on hwbot don't have the results summary with ECC disabled or Enabled in their results. Either it will be showed as Driver version approved or the driver version. Nothing about ECC disabled or Enabled. What to do with results that is valid but you can't show it due Futuremark system info can't show it correct? Will all 3DM Suite Fire Strike (Extreme) results be removed/blocked now even if they are done correct? Thanks In short... Newest Futuremark System info 5.55 or newer doesn't matter. Offer nothing about ECC disabled or Enabled info for some benchmarks as etc 3DM Suite Fires strike Extreme or Fire Strike. You either get approved or the driver version instead in the results summary. Nothing more. Correct me if I'm wrong. It will be wrong blocking posted results if this is correct and you haven't done something or anything wrong. Examples below. Edit. Same here from today.... https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/87613114 ------ Newest Futuremark System Info, Newest drivers, software and nothing about ECC info in the results summary https://hwbot.org/submission/5178098_andressergio_3dmark___fire_strike_extreme_geforce_rtx_4090_43526_marks I have even seen results from 3Dmark TIME SPY flagged as ECC disabled even if the settings is enabled in NCP. What a fun time we live in. Edit. And what with 4080 results? Not sure ECC enabled/disabled will show up at all for this 4000 series cards. 2 Quote
Mr. Fox Posted January 21, 2023 Posted January 21, 2023 4 hours ago, Papusan said: Hi. I saw one of you have blocked my 4090 Fire Strike Extreme subs. Reason. ECC disabled run. But I'm quite sure I had it Enabled. I don't even think older Fire strike benchmark offer driver status as ECC disabled/Enabled in their results summary. Or maybe LOD tweaks is one of the culprits (allowed for hwbot) for not show it up. I can't confirm this right now as I have returned the card. Maybe others can test out this with 4090. I mean every single Fire Strike Extreme benches posted on hwbot don't have the results summary with ECC disabled or Enabled in their results. Either it will be showed as Driver version approved or the driver version. Nothing about ECC disabled or Enabled. What to do with results that is valid but you can't show it due Futuremark system info can't show it correct? Will all 3DM Suite Fire Strike (Extreme) results be removed/blocked now even if they are done correct? Thanks In short... Newest Futuremark System info 5.55 or newer doesn't matter. Offer nothing about ECC disabled or Enabled info for some benchmarks as etc 3DM Suite Fires strike Extreme or Fire Strike. You either get approved or the driver version instead in the results summary. Nothing more. Correct me if I'm wrong. It will be wrong blocking posted results if this is correct and you haven't done something or anything wrong. Examples below. Edit. Same here from today.... https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/87613114 ------ Newest Futuremark System Info, Newest drivers, software and nothing about ECC info in the results summary https://hwbot.org/submission/5178098_andressergio_3dmark___fire_strike_extreme_geforce_rtx_4090_43526_marks I have even seen results from 3Dmark TIME SPY flagged as ECC disabled even if the settings is enabled in NCP. What a fun time we live in. Edit. And what with 4080 results? Not sure ECC enabled/disabled will show up at all for this 4000 series cards. That really stinks. If they are going to remove 4090 submissions, then they should just remove all of them across the board and make everyone start over rather than making arbitrary assumptions about which ones are legit and which ones are not. Example: https://hwbot.org/submission/5130021_splave_3dmark___time_spy_extreme_geforce_rtx_4090_21023_marks https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/83861241 Why is this still on the leaderboard and receiving points? But others are removed? 2 Quote
Crew Leeghoofd Posted January 21, 2023 Crew Posted January 21, 2023 Remarks : - when did we impose the ruling? We are blocking the ones atm that don't adhere to this rule set. Anyway did you think you could get away with a small increase in freq that would boost your score so high that you even beat LN2 or chilled setups... now some opt that the best defence is to attack... - What is the safest score to submit, the ECC or the non ECC one ? We see user sub ECC enabled ones for the non global benchmarks and trying to stay under the radar and subbing ECC disabled ones for the benchmarks with global points. These are the ones why this is done now ! Thank them not me! - Is it THE requirement that ECC needs to be visible in the UL verification link to determine it was enabled or not? Maybe we just need a safety net - UL is going to rework ECC detection for older benchmarks - If UL decides to go with ECC enabled only is the way to go, the older scores will be removed and will need to be rebenched... - if you have a more viable solution for this mess, plz share it... - If you have a score that you think was legit, link us, maybe we messed up. Moderators are only humans too. End of drama 1 Quote
Gorod Posted January 23, 2023 Posted January 23, 2023 Been writing support tickets for months now begging and asking for help to fix my forum account, apparently password restoration function is not working and nothing is being delivered to gmail associated with hwbot account. Can not even communicate on forum and ask questions there. Can not see submissions being removed, or the reason for that, unless manually going throughout my submissions and noticing them just disappear. Just like now went to check up my points and noticed them drop, and sure enough them some RTX 4090 scores got removed again ! Leeghoofd i am asking can you or any admins/mods please help with fixing the forum password and look up why i am not receiving notifications to my gmail for submissions being removed ? And what was wrong with these submissions and the reason for them being removed ? Link bellow, thank you :) : https://hwbot.org/submission/5174960_ https://hwbot.org/submission/5174958_ https://hwbot.org/submission/5174956_ Quote
Crew Leeghoofd Posted January 23, 2023 Crew Posted January 23, 2023 5 hours ago, Gorod said: Been writing support tickets for months now begging and asking for help to fix my forum account, apparently password restoration function is not working and nothing is being delivered to gmail associated with hwbot account. Can not even communicate on forum and ask questions there. Can not see submissions being removed, or the reason for that, unless manually going throughout my submissions and noticing them just disappear. Just like now went to check up my points and noticed them drop, and sure enough them some RTX 4090 scores got removed again ! Leeghoofd i am asking can you or any admins/mods please help with fixing the forum password and look up why i am not receiving notifications to my gmail for submissions being removed ? And what was wrong with these submissions and the reason for them being removed ? Link bellow, thank you : https://hwbot.org/submission/5174960_ https://hwbot.org/submission/5174958_ https://hwbot.org/submission/5174956_ why not just drop a PM on my wall or come on Discord... I'm confused as you are on the forum now. Plz mail me your credential to albrecht@hwbot.org Quote
Nero10578 Posted February 9, 2023 Posted February 9, 2023 Wow so all 4090 benches will be deleted? What about the last ditch effort that EVGA did? Just poof gone? RIP. Quote
Crew Leeghoofd Posted February 9, 2023 Crew Posted February 9, 2023 1 hour ago, Nero10578 said: Wow so all 4090 benches will be deleted? What about the last ditch effort that EVGA did? Just poof gone? RIP. No eVGA scores to my knowing upped to HWBOT from them limited edition cards Quote
Mr. Fox Posted February 12, 2023 Posted February 12, 2023 (edited) On 1/21/2023 at 12:10 PM, Leeghoofd said: - if you have a more viable solution for this mess, plz share it... A suggestion... if ECC enablement is required, perhaps also require NVIDIA Control Panel in the screenshot. I purchased a 4090 since this debacle started (received Friday) and all of my submissions have it enabled. I see many older submissions (before ECC checking was a thing) often with lower core and memory clocks than I am running with signficantly higher benchmark scores. If I disable ECC, I can match them, but don't see any point in uploading 3DMark runs only to have them deleted later. It is a shame that we have to gimp performance by having this enabled, but I suppose if everyone has to gimp their 4090 it will level the playing field. I have ECC disabled when I am not submitting scores for the leaderboard. I kind of wish the option was not even present in NVIDIA Control Panel. Example of my suggestion: Edited February 12, 2023 by Mr. Fox Quote
Crew Leeghoofd Posted February 12, 2023 Crew Posted February 12, 2023 Why does one continuously keep on repeating the same thing. All older non ECC scores will be removed on the 15th of this month... So everything will be the same. I can add an ECC easily in the screenshot, no special Photoshop skills required... Doesn't work If Nvidia removes ECC we have a big problem, than it's fully up to UL to impose proper bugged score detection...as users will keep on claiming their score is fully legit and will cry it is labeled Valid by UL. Impossible to moderate with the current graph data we have... Quote
Mr. Fox Posted February 12, 2023 Posted February 12, 2023 (edited) 8 hours ago, Leeghoofd said: Why does one continuously keep on repeating the same thing. All older non ECC scores will be removed on the 15th of this month... So everything will be the same. I can add an ECC easily in the screenshot, no special Photoshop skills required... Doesn't work If Nvidia removes ECC we have a big problem, than it's fully up to UL to impose proper bugged score detection...as users will keep on claiming their score is fully legit and will cry it is labeled Valid by UL. Impossible to moderate with the current graph data we have... What is being repeated? I don't understand. I merely offered a suggestion to provide an additional point of reference just as the CPU-Z and GPU-Z are required in screenshots for validation purposes. But, we still require them even though you can Photoshop them. I took your invitation to offer a suggestion seriously. Perhaps I should have just kept my idea to myself. I apologize if it was a point of frustration, but I appreciate you taking the time to respond. If NVIDIA had never added ECC as an option then we would not be having this a topic for discussion. It impairs performance on GPUs just as it does system memory with ECC. So does G-SYNC, which I also hate and always disable. And, bugged 3DMark scores have been a reality since the very first benchmark was made. I suspect that many submissions are bugged and the people submitting them, and those displaced by those scores, have no knowledge that they are. Cheaters are going to cheat. I can Photoshop almost anything if I want to go to enough effort. There is nothing to be gained by cheating, at least when it comes to submitting scores on the leaderboard. No money to be made or anything else of substance. Cheaters have to live with the knowledge they are actually losers and trashy human beings that don't deserve the air that they breathe. Unfortunately, those worthless bastards make us have to jump through hoops to foil their foolishness. Their nonsense creates division and controversy among people that should enjoy friendships built around the hobby they have in common. Edited February 12, 2023 by Mr. Fox corrected a typo Quote
Johnksss Posted February 12, 2023 Posted February 12, 2023 7 hours ago, Leeghoofd said: Why does one continuously keep on repeating the same thing. All older non ECC scores will be removed on the 15th of this month... So everything will be the same. I can add an ECC easily in the screenshot, no special Photoshop skills required... Doesn't work If Nvidia removes ECC we have a big problem, than it's fully up to UL to impose proper bugged score detection...as users will keep on claiming their score is fully legit and will cry it is labeled Valid by UL. Impossible to moderate with the current graph data we have... Why the smart ass reply? So it's like that around here is it? 1 Quote
Crew Leeghoofd Posted February 12, 2023 Crew Posted February 12, 2023 3 hours ago, Mr. Fox said: If NVIDIA had never added ECC as an option then we would not be having this a topic for discussion. It impairs performance on GPUs just as it does system memory with ECC. So does G-SYNC, which I also hate and always disable. And, bugged 3DMark scores have been a reality since the very first benchmark was made. I suspect that many submissions are bugged and the people submitting them, and those displaced by those scores, have no knowledge that they are. Cheaters are going to cheat. I can Photoshop almost anything if I want to go to enough effort. There is nothing to be gained by cheating, at least when it comes to submitting scores on the leaderboard. No money to be made or anything else of substance. Cheaters have to live with the knowledge they are actually losers and trashy human beings that don't deserve the air that they breathe. Unfortunately, those worthless bastards make us have to jump through hoops to foil their foolishness. Their nonsense creates division and controversy among people that should enjoy friendships built around the hobby they have in common. Without ECC we would have bugged outputs all over the place with these RTX cards, especially if the benchmark still VALIDATES on the verification page. There should be an autodetect system monitoring weird outputs that would invalidate the score if eg Scene 3 scores more than 30% faster than scene 7... sadly this is not the case (yet) Now with Pasi from UL monitoring the subs with ECC there are almost no bugged outputs. With UL displaying the ECC enabled and correct memory size we have a double backup layer from the standard HWBOT screenshot requirements. Adding ECC tab is overkill, it has no real added value One member was already creative, making a new screenshot with ECC enabled but with the non ECC save profile loaded in the benchmark. The verification link gave it all away. Can we judge by the displayed frequencies, nope but again we see them in the verification link. Users can downclock or even upclock to make it look more realistic. It's that creativity that leads to so many rules and rule changes... Just wait for the 15th, when we pull all non ECC subs, the dust will settle after a few days... hopefully everybody is satisfied with the new direction... Fingers crossed UL wil pickup the feedback for future benchmark releases, the current verification design has flaws. We saw it already with 6900XT scores and now once more with RTX 4090. Sadly no site is perfect as way too many "tweaked" scores stay under the radar... 1 Quote
Johnksss Posted February 12, 2023 Posted February 12, 2023 2 hours ago, Leeghoofd said: Without ECC we would have bugged outputs all over the place with these RTX cards, especially if the benchmark still VALIDATES on the verification page. There should be an autodetect system monitoring weird outputs that would invalidate the score if eg Scene 3 scores more than 30% faster than scene 7... sadly this is not the case (yet) Now with Pasi from UL monitoring the subs with ECC there are almost no bugged outputs. With UL displaying the ECC enabled and correct memory size we have a double backup layer from the standard HWBOT screenshot requirements. Adding ECC tab is overkill, it has no real added value One member was already creative, making a new screenshot with ECC enabled but with the non ECC save profile loaded in the benchmark. The verification link gave it all away. Can we judge by the displayed frequencies, nope but again we see them in the verification link. Users can downclock or even upclock to make it look more realistic. It's that creativity that leads to so many rules and rule changes... Just wait for the 15th, when we pull all non ECC subs, the dust will settle after a few days... hopefully everybody is satisfied with the new direction... Fingers crossed UL wil pickup the feedback for future benchmark releases, the current verification design has flaws. We saw it already with 6900XT scores and now once more with RTX 4090. Sadly no site is perfect as way too many "tweaked" scores stay under the radar... Now this was more along the lines of what I was expecting from you. Thanks for the info. 1 Quote
Crew Leeghoofd Posted February 13, 2023 Crew Posted February 13, 2023 18 hours ago, Johnksss said: Now this was more along the lines of what I was expecting from you. Thanks for the info. @Mr. Foxanother perfect example https://hwbot.org/submission/5200989... ECC on, ROFL Are you guys slowly starting to understand now what we deal with each day... 1 Quote
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