June 6, 201014 yr How many people who vote "no points" would quickly GAIN points? It's biased from both sides
June 6, 201014 yr How many people who vote "no points" would quickly GAIN points? It's biased from both sides yeah but still it would be fair competition. I do not think that top 10 can't find a good retail, but average joe would still have the same chances to find one and compete them... Or you can change the logo to HWBOT Worldwide sponsors and hw companies league. Trully this was your dreams when you started this site or a league that will have to do with overclocking ONLY;
June 6, 201014 yr Author How many people who vote "no points" would quickly GAIN points? It's biased from both sides Yeah, every 10pts, 30 global points member will benefit from the 2 gained points to climb to the top...
June 6, 201014 yr I don't know what option should I vote. I can't say that I don't like or like ES cpu, I also has some access to ES CPU's (it's very difficult but I can get some from Intel after the launch of product or to buy on ebay but they suck always, on ebay there only bad cpu after handpicking). In the past there wasn't any problem, beside handpicking helped by manufactures, there were always ES steppings same as retail, in fact retaile could defeat ES or be not worse. But from the beggining of 32nm there is a problem (about Clarkdale I just don't want to talk about as this platform isn't as fast as 1366 and we saw some retails that could be almost as good as ES CPU), but with Gulftown there is a real problem. We CAN'T BUY A0 in a shop, in fact we can't buy it in legal way, of course there are some on ebay but they are handpicked. It wouldn't be a problem if retails were almost as good or as good as those A0. But there is a big difference, bigger than in Nehalem C0 vs D0 stepping. In my opinion ES cpus should be treated like normal CPU if they are based on retail stepping, for instance i7 980X B1 stepping 2 ES are just like normal retails. They had only different markings on IHS and there is also ES naming in CPU-Z. But i7 980X A0 stepping is in fact a different CPU, it hasn't overvoltage and overheat protections and clocks a lot better if we could mod retail B1 cpus to override those protections and it could clock as high as A0, I wouldn't have any objection about using A0. Very familiar case is about slow bug mod on GF 480GTX, it also should be published, but in fact isn't the problem with ES or retail but with some secrets. But we can all buy cards, if we are clever enough we can figure out the correct vmod and play with the best. But there isn't any mod to clock our i7 980X B1 like 980X A0...
June 6, 201014 yr It musst be a fair competition between ALL clockers in Hwbot. The owner of ES CPU's get the advantage (maybe good, maybe bad) so with they are predominat to the other clockers in league. ES have two options - separate league or to be forbiden. I am the oppinion that the first option could be satisfaying for both sides. Pro - they can bench ES in the same league with other ES owner. Contra - we can effort in our league the best we can without to be upset. The midd-way is the best way. With kind regards Edited June 6, 201014 yr by Barisan
June 6, 201014 yr Crew ES is not always better mate... ES AO in this case is better than all the rest, but there were other ES cpu's out there that where just plain well euh crap
June 6, 201014 yr Author Doesn't change a thing. For every bad ES there are hundreds of crappier retails. The top 5 of each benchmark is getting ESowned.
June 6, 201014 yr Okay: - manufacturers allowing people to bin from an enormous amount of samples - manufacturers prebinning hardware directly at the factory and handing them to a select few - manufacturers working out mod instructions and giving them to a select few Just to name a few things. I cannot understand why everyone is so furious about ES samples, if those get banned from HWBot, people will either rebrand their hardware as retail or they will start binning retail hardware. I would be really curious about how many of the guys complaining now tried a few A0 samples without finding a freak chip. If someone of the those people had found a great chip, would that change his opinion? Gautam, you posted while I was writing my post, you put my thoughts into words perfectly. No one is furious, just frustrated. It boggles me though that if people are here on the premise of "competing" that they would be o.k. with their competitors having an markedly unfair advantage over you them. Either they arnt really here to compete or they are just very toolerant.
June 6, 201014 yr I think that the people who would really take this seriously won't do that for their own reasons. But I ask them, will anything be changed after that or you will pass it as it never happened?
June 6, 201014 yr Okay: - manufacturers allowing people to bin from an enormous amount of samples - manufacturers prebinning hardware directly at the factory and handing them to a select few - manufacturers working out mod instructions and giving them to a select few Just to name a few things. I cannot understand why everyone is so furious about ES samples, if those get banned from HWBot, people will either rebrand their hardware as retail or they will start binning retail hardware. I would be really curious about how many of the guys complaining now tried a few A0 samples without finding a freak chip. If someone of the those people had found a great chip, would that change his opinion? Gautam, you posted while I was writing my post, you put my thoughts into words perfectly. Bingo, it's not ES chips that are the problem. Manufacturer sponsoring is the issue. It shouldn't be allowed. Manufacturers shouldn't be allowed to give a select few 'juiced' hardware, pinout and datasheet information that's NDA and can't be found anywhere. Seeing some pretty swifty stuff from manufacturers. Not going to point any fingers. Voting to disallow ES's for points on the baises that's it's Intel's property and 'sharing' hardware is against HWbot rules. Thus, they have never been legitimate entries to begin with. I have ES enteries and stand to lose points over this. It's more about the principles of it.
June 6, 201014 yr At first: Sorry, but my english is not very good! I think ES shoud ranked in a special group, because this CPU´s are not for sale! So the big Guys can battle at her owen and "normal" bencher have the chance to hit a Global Cup!
June 6, 201014 yr At first: Sorry, but my english is not very good! I think ES shoud ranked in a special group, because this CPU´s are not for sale! So the big Guys can battle at her owen and "normal" bencher have the chance to hit a Global Cup! Mate, i understand you're thinking. To ban ES hw may solve one issue, but it doesnt change a thing. Most of us are not capable to compete with the highrollers. They just would go and bin hundrets of retail chips or the manufactures will rebrand the hw. To ban ES just close a door, but it opens a couple of others.
June 6, 201014 yr No one is furious, just frustrated. It boggles me though that if people are here on the premise of "competing" that they would be o.k. with their competitors having an markedly unfair advantage over you them. That's not even remotely what we're trying to say here. What we're saying is that banning ESes won't remove any of this "unfairness" you speak of. Edit: Exactly what Hollywood posted above...
June 6, 201014 yr Author So we're not taking a step forward because some people and stupid manufacturers will try to "override" the new rule ? Allllllllrighty... Since people and manufacturers can also "embrace" hardware sharing, shouldn't we retire the hardware sharing rule too ? And since some people can also run mipmap for example at X clocks and claim that they run the benchmark at Y clocks ( matching the relative performance ), shouldn't we also remove all the rules in general ? Let's keep it nice, tidy & simple. The new rules are... #1: Be a human being #2: There's no second rule. Enjoy...
June 6, 201014 yr So far Im taking this pole ... 82 against competition ES chips. Compared to 15 for them ... Thats even worse then I thought. Something needs to be done, banning them would help a bit. But the real problem is definitely the influence companies give. Seriously why not seperate the league into specific classes? I have brought it up a couple times.. and no one even comments.... Whats wrong with a pro/amateur/novice type setup?? As long as the rules are laid out.. Everybody can be happy.. Guys that do this all the time with sponsership would be pro. Anybody who does it on there own buck could be an amateur based upon there skills.. based upon a certain criteria of legal posts.. that hit a certain level of accomplishment. Think about it.. Someone tearing it up in amateur can then be scouted for the pro ranks.. and they move up. then the novice, the guy starting out.. Having them then move up from novice if they reached the top 10 for a period of time.. Something like this is an answer to the problems.. it does create more problems in some areas.. but it does spread the wealth and keeps alot of what like today about clocking... Just my 2 cents... NO one likes this idea?
June 6, 201014 yr So far Im taking this pole ... 82 against competition ES chips. Compared to 15 for them ... Thats even worse then I thought. Something needs to be done, banning them would help a bit. But the real problem is definitely the influence companies give. Seriously why not seperate the league into specific classes? I have brought it up a couple times.. and no one even comments.... Whats wrong with a pro/amateur/novice type setup?? As long as the rules are laid out.. Everybody can be happy.. Guys that do this all the time with sponsership would be pro. Anybody who does it on there own buck could be an amateur based upon there skills.. based upon a certain criteria of legal posts.. that hit a certain level of accomplishment. Think about it.. Someone tearing it up in amateur can then be scouted for the pro ranks.. and they move up. then the novice, the guy starting out.. Having them then move up from novice if they reached the top 10 for a period of time.. Something like this is an answer to the problems.. it does create more problems in some areas.. but it does spread the wealth and keeps alot of what like today about clocking... Just my 2 cents... NO one likes this idea? You're suggestion about diff classes sound okay, no doubt. But it has nothing to do with the ES thing! Sure, i am dreaming about to reach the top 50 or above. Best result i had within 6 months of my overclocking escapades was #17 with a single card in 3Dmark06. That was a few days after the GT's hit the shelfs. But, to be honest: If one of the top guys had my setup, i am sure they had made a top 5 result with it. The top clockers don't get these samples for free! They need to work rly hard to get those kinda hw! You could not imagine, how lucky i felt with my #17 that day, even if it just was the only run b4 the GT died on me. To me it was like a world record, if you can follow me. If you would be able to get you're hand on an ES, i am pretty sure you would use it! I would! No doubt! As i said b4: Only thing, that needs to be changed, is to not give hw boints cause they dont fit the 980x specs. Edited June 6, 201014 yr by Hollywood
June 6, 201014 yr So we're not taking a step forward One step forward, then twenty steps backwards. It's been said a million times, and not just by me, removing ES from HWBOT is just a very short highly ineffective solution. There's no point in faking to provide a solution when it's no solution at all. Seriously why not seperate the league into specific classes? I have brought it up a couple times.. and no one even comments.... As I've said in the other thread. YES, we are looking into this. YES, it's possible. NO it's not as simple as just splitting up.
June 6, 201014 yr Author Worry not folks, sometime in 2055 HWbot will come up with a great solution... We'll just have to live with E.S. scores up, because if we disallow them the honest and nice people gunning with those right now will cheat to make the ES look like retail... and that's a bad thing for the community Oh joy... why don't we bring back OPB too ?
June 6, 201014 yr There's one more thing i dont like about BANNING engineering samples... this is the biggest overclocking database around. If a CPU exist, it's against ANY common sense to say "sorry, that chip doesn't belong here". Sure it does. It's a CPU, that's enough. What to do with it is more up for discussion - removing ES submissions from the database is like a CPU holocaust... my .02.
June 6, 201014 yr there's One More Thing I Dont Like About Banning Engineering Samples... This Is The Biggest Overclocking Database Around. If A Cpu Exist, It's Against Any Common Sense To Say "sorry, That Chip Doesn't Belong Here". Sure It Does. It's A Cpu, That's Enough. What To Do With It Is More Up For Discussion - Removing Es Submissions From The Database Is Like A Cpu Holocaust... My .02. Sign
June 6, 201014 yr Oh joy... why don't we bring back OPB too ? Right there. That's why I don't have to listen to any of your arguments
June 6, 201014 yr Author Oh look... a Sandy Bridge ( not an eagle ). Yes, it's an ES but it's a CPU. I don't see why I shouldn't submit my scores with it... edit: psycho kurumi edit for massman - I don't care
June 6, 201014 yr Oh look... a Sandy Bridge ( not an eagle ).Yes, it's an ES but it's a CPU. I don't see why I shouldn't submit my scores with it... edit: psycho kurumi edit for massman - I don't care You should not because there are no SB retail available? C'mon! Worry not folks, sometime in 2055 HWbot will come up with a great solution... We'll just have to live with E.S. scores up, because if we disallow them the honest and nice people gunning with those right now will cheat to make the ES look like retail... and that's a bad thing for the community Oh joy... why don't we bring back OPB too ? Just to get you right: You think, using ES is the same as cheating/fakin scores???? Edited June 6, 201014 yr by Hollywood
June 6, 201014 yr You should not because there are no SB retail available? C'mon! No worries. This is quite typical: now we are in the phase where we're blurting out random stuff to continue a discussion without it being about the real topic anymore.
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