K404

I like to think of the ES rule as "future-proofing" If there is another scenario where ES are better than retail, there will be complaints all over the place. Plus, I think it reduces the demand for (expensive, no-warranty) "black market" items because most people want to avoid the Pro League.

Nice present!

DAMNIT!!!!! LOL You have a good MHz advantage though *clutches at straws* You are the exception that proves the rule *clutches at more straws* Today, it changes (almost) nothing. Tomorrow, maybe not. Enthusiast league don't get WR points....affects the same number of people. I was thinking of ways to limit the expense for people wanting to compete at the top. Banned, yes... but still used. Check out Tolsty (results are up to 10 months old) and (IIRC) Wizerty.

I don't think removing latest-gen hardware from XOC will change much. Thinking about the hardware points: there are more big scores for 3D than 2D. Plus, we see very little movement in old-school CPU golds (the 50-point ones anyway) Also: Now that 3770K has filled the rankings, I am going to stick my neck out a bit and say there is no chance of a 2600K taking any 50-point gold medals in 3D. Not even a 6GHz one. Even with an 8800GT- a 6-year-old card, the benches scale well enough with Ivy to make Sandy useless for gold....and useless for good global scores. I imagine that would push people more towards hardware scores, because that's where they will get more points. IMO, the problem with the XOL is that people "don't know" when they should move. I think there is a gray area and that lets people stay. Here are some suggestions- people should NOT be in the XOL if they: *have been given latest-gen GPUs for free by a shop or vendor (even if on loan) *have close enough ties to a shop that they can go and bin their CPU stock free free or almost free (I know, has been discussed before) *Are using latest-gen ES from any source *Have went to an event at a vendor office or HQ. I think this one is important. If someone has been flown out to Cali or Taiwan, for a small gathering behind closed doors, you are NOT "just like the rest of us." *Appeared at GOOC or MOA FINALS? *receive an amount of free/sponsored RELEVANT hardware that you "just know" gives you an advantage. But.... we usually see a move to the Pro league as permanent. What about "cause and effect?" If someone (e.g.) goes to Asus HQ in Taiwan and gets scores, they move (out of XOL league) for 6 months, then they can move back if they are not so close to the company any more. What about no multi-CPU systems and no 4-way GPU in XOL league? What about a points-related "guide" if someone has more (Global + WR points) than hardware points, they move? Thing is: what would happen to these people? Force scores to "no-points," Forced into Limbo, or forced to Pro OC cup?

I suggested something like that not so long ago Midrange is where the big sales are: midrange is where we should impress people

I thought about something similar "The stage will end between this time and this time" maybe a 36 hour time window would be enough to keep people on edge..... but "the button" would have to be controlled by someone separate to HWB staff, or there will be claims of fix. Maybe even separate to HWB entirely

Exactly That is my point... I was not thinking of hardware points, I was thinking about the last 5 years. The hardware required was so set-in-stone that I remember it very clearly, even now.

No, Ronaldo. We both know that is not true. If you want to rank well, you will use E8600 and GTX280, then you will use I7 920, then you will use Intel 980X, then you will buy 5870, then get GTX480. Then 990X and GTX580, then some 2600K, then 7970, then 3770K. The choices for the best scores have been very narrow. People do not choose what hardware they bench, they choose to be competitive or not, if they can afford it. Yes, someone can do well with 1x or 2x GPU... but there is every chance they will not be #1.... the same thing is happening now.

"Don't get into subjects that you are not part" I distorted nothing. I agree with your points about sandbagging, but it is not a new problem. I like the idea of elimination.... or bonus points for being in the lead for a period of time or something. SOMETHING to give participants the incentive to post new scores frequently. I agree with your points about $ and binning..... but they are not new problems. BUT.... in a 3 month competition- how many people will bin "unusual" parts and how many can they bin in that time.... for so little gain? I do not think it will be so bad If you buy a 4P AMD board.... you can sell it afterwards y'know "All" you have to do is not kill it. They OC like crap anyway.... what could go wrong? You couldn't compete against these in the old Pro League either and Titan carries the big WR points if paired with a good CPU. You paint a very negative picture. The picture is MUCH brighter than you think People work hard every day and the hard work is undone by someone else. That is life.

and remember D3D Over-ride Are we annoying you yet? :D

and use some LOD

A/this B/ Meme incoming!

I'm gonna "reply" to a few posts in one go here... but without quoting the original because I don't feel like scrolling back 3 pages and finding the right post to quote If ANYONE is told that their opinion is not welcome here, then that IS a problem. The point of the Pro cup is to being new people into OC.... outsiders. People who don't know much about OC or the community. These new people will post things. ANY sign of elitism will push them right back out. RBuass said it. If a Pro OCer tells a non Pro OCer that their opinion is not welcome in a thread discussing the Pro OC, then the whole thing is bunnied. If the Pro OCers decide what the Pro League is and what it should have, it WILL become self-serving, self-indulgent and a very closed circle...... is anyone going to disagree? Dino..... you mentioned people getting stale. I believe this is happening now. The Leagues had / have no start or end point. Nothing more demoralising than putting time effort and money into....what? I'm gonna pick my own situation here.... I understand it best I have some gold medals and some global points. I used to have more. Because there is no start or end point.... as soon as my points/ rankings drop.... who will remember them? How can I show to someone that I was ever "good" at this? Personally, I found that more demoralising than anything else. Having start and stop points and a permanent page showing the final leaderboard is a BRILLIANT idea. Part of me is annoyed that Hipro has such big and demanding opinions despite not submitting results for so long (yea, I just said that) BUT I do not believe anyone should be told not to speak. Everyones opinion on the community is welcome..... maybe the most important ones are from people 100% outside HWB? If OC is going to grow, we need to entertain people. People who have short attention spans. WE are at THEIR mercy. We can bend to what they want to see (is that selling out?) and catch some wider limelight or we can stay as a generally insular circle and things will probably shrink. Oh... as for top scores. Personal opinion: I generally don't look at them. I'm competitive enough to want the scores, but the more I look at the MHz I don't have, the more money I will (want to) spend trying to improve them. I can't afford to do that. I'm inspired by scores I can relate to and/or achieve by pushing a little harder. Scores at 10-15% higher CPU speeds do nothing for me, because I know enough about benching to know what happened "behind the scenes" to get the hardware to get that score.

You did everything possible to make this run harder for yourself Keep pushing it! (On XP though, trust me )

I know nothing about smartphones.... what options are there for getting the .jpg or .3dr file onto a running smartphone? Can a smartphone be used like an external hard drive? Seriously, I like tech, but in most ways i'm a luddite

no no.... please don't confuse things- this is a 3-series driver problem More dedicated thread: http://hwbot.org/forum/showthread.php?t=63538&highlight=1075MHz

There's two conversations goin on in this thread.... that's my fault OjO... what drivers? Are you getting better FPS with increased MHz? I believe i've shown beyond any doubt that Fermi + 3-series drivers crap out at 999MHz. GPU-Z can be ignored, it is not reflecting the truth.

A whole bunch of valid points The guys with access still have access, sometimes the benchmark choice will make their company contacts irrelevant, then it comes down to who has the money. I *DO* expect some new names to shine in the Pro League "the right person with the right hardware at the right time"

Personally, I disagree I hate seeing the number of results going up with MHz info missing. How many cheats are caught because the MHz give away that something is wrong? If MHz are "muddy" then it would be very easy to run D-PP or Mip (if that even works on Kepler) and claim the MHz were much higher, they just aren't being shown in GPU-Z. IMO, it undermines the point of having GPU-Z verification..... if I have a 6.8GHz Ivy for 3D05 or AM3....... does it matter if i'm using a GTX580/680/Titan?

Bump for this. Ignore the GT630 discussion. Apart from GPU-Z MONITORING page (GPU MHz set to "Show Max") and nVidiaInspector (Est. max) fields, what ways are there to confirm Kepler MHz?

Like I said on Skype... go to hell Wait.... so Ney can submit zero scores and still be ranked higher than me (I submitted 4)? wow... FML

Wait.... so....... "Blame Ney?" What will Massman do now??

Of course he has something good on his mind.... Pro OC Cup!