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Third and last part (for now ) 11.159@cpu score, 6ghz stable with "only" 1,8v real, with cpu load calibration ON in bios. We can't move on from that frequency by entering in win from the bios, we think we should try to enter @5,95 and then going up by using amd overdrive... Last score with even the gpu@ln2, now we absolutely need the Vmod A question: when we were@5,94ghz, the mobo was switching continuosly the frequencies by 60mhz (2mhz of fsb with 30x multi gives 60mhz)... that's not good that, when you are at approx 6ghz, the frequency goes up and down by so much! Have you experienced that? By the way: bios 0801, we had also a little problem with that NB voltage bug that Leghoofd was speaking about in his review for madshrimps

Given that we had problems, troubles, removing that kneaded eraser stuff from the Giga UD7, I tried a new way of preparing the mobo for the neoprene... the thought is to make capacitors and phases, "squared": Done! Neoprene... And here we go with gpu and cpu under ln2: After 2 hours, insulation did it! So 5,6ghz max on the cpu, over 10k of cpu score. http://hwbot.org/community/submission/1019359_aoc_3dmark_2006_geforce_8800_gtx_18098_marks?new=true

On Sunday and Tuesday (yesterday) we, the AOC, played with our phenny 1090T and the crosshair 4, to take confidence with amd since those are our first runs. Let's start, setting up everything with 1090T, C4F, 8800GTX and Kingston 2133C9 Kingston provided us for a review: testing to find maximum vga frequencies on air: Phenny @ 4,25 and 8800gtx at his max on air: 8K cpu score on air, not bad! Then we started to do insulation on Ryba/sf3d gpu pot, to find max frequencies for the 8800gtx without still vmodding it: Gpu pot mounted, here we go: We arrived at -120 on the 8800, but I have an old UEI DT200 that's going crazy, so take these temperatures with a grain of salt... At -120, we managed to close at 783/1620/972... Contact between pot and gpu, good!

Pieter, let me understand... the changes between now and after the split will be that only the PROs can access the competitions? As I look at the graph I understand that OC league has hwpoints (same as now, limited to 300 for a person, not limited when it comes to count in the whole team points), Global Points best per benchmark (same as now, in all the submissions I do in a benchmark, the one who gets the most hwboints, not the highest score in the benchmark, takes globals, the others only the hwboints), and the last thing... 3D WR points: isn't it the same thing that goes in the Global Points?

Don't go too far guys... ok to split between sponsored people who has tons of ES hw months before the rest of the overcloking world, but splitting because it's unfair that someone overclocks with a stock cooler against someone else who has a liquid cooling, it's crazy... Do you like overclock? then go out, buy some waterblocks, learn tricks and optimizations from the forums and improve your results, likewe all did when we started.

You're right, sometimes it's better to change gradually than to break totally with the past and then saying "oh, it's a shit, let's turn back where we were" :banana: ... and I think we're discussing all those things to let Frederick and you do the right changes.

I'll try to answer to Pieter and Jor3llBR from point to point: 1) has cpu-z experienced some difficulties detecting the es, as of now? 2) maybe the gpu-z programmer could add that... are the ES vga diffused as for the cpu contest? 3) I think that what is done is done... the ES results already submitted, will remain. 4) even keeping everything the way it's now is unfair to all the rest (99%) of the people... so we need to do a trade-off. 5) why?

Pieter, can't it be done by choosing a fixed recursive time in which the rankings are analyzed and, for example, the first 50 in overclockers rankings are in the pro-league with the other guys will be in World league? For example, every 6 months, the rankings will be scanned, the split of clockers between the two leagues will be adjusted based on who has gone up or down in the rankings in that previous 6 months. It's the same for Soccer here in Italy... we have "Serie A", "Serie B" etc... In A you have teams like Milan, Juventus, Inter etc... that Series is made up by 20 teams: who of them arrives in 17, 18, 19 and 20th position at the end of the year, goes in Serie B. At the same time, the first 4 teams of serie B will be promoted in A for the next season. Dunno if I well explained the thing... Oh, obviously, when a clocker passes from a category to another, his points will need to be recalculated based on the new submission rankings... but I think that this is an operation that your server can work out... can it, Frederick?

Uoh, what a big topic... So, when the discussion goes enormous, it's better to try to do an abstract of the points : - who has dozens es to try, will surely find a monster cpu (we have seen in the past that this is not a thing that cuts out everybody, but almost all yes... for example in i7-975 category, stummerwinter got a monster cpu that could beat even the es, my friend Fogna in E8600 category got a retail cpu that could beat almost everything etc...). For a company, giving someone 50 ES cpus, is different to give him 50 retail cpus... the ESs are not going to be sold, the Retails yes, so maybe a there will be a little difference in "brands gifts". - let's consider the time factor: who has a bunch of ESs, starts to take confidence, to do research, to understand limits and problems of a platform, months before that all the other clockers... so, when everything goes finally on sale, you're competing with people that have tons of backup screens, continuosly receives support from the brands and have also much more time from a generation to the next one to fine tune everything. So, let's take a look at HWBOT mission Statement: http://hwbot.org/article/news/info As you can read "HWBOT aims to turn overclocking from a hobby into a worldwide, competitive sport. Just as any sport, we think this should be divided into a professional and amateur league. The continuous “overclocker league†is the amateur league. Anyone can join, and become noticed by achieving a high rank. Currently you will not get into the top 100 without extreme cooling (LN2) and knowledge. Officially recognized competitions will be the “professional†league" So... a division is already written in the statement, a bit vague a think... let's do a comparative between Formula1 and Hwbot: in F1 there are rules and limits decided by the Chiefs, to let the partecipating teams compete on a rather equal point of start... Ferrari, McLaren, Renault have an advantage, represented by HUGE fundings for R&D... so that is why they usually dominate the rankings, in the decades. Removing the funding-cap available per season, will result in a non-competition situation, with Ferrari that could spend in R&D about 100 times the amount that a small firm can afford. I think that rules are quite fair... Ferrari continues to do VERY fast cars because, even with the funding-limit, they have a better know-how, experience, better engineers etc... but even Ferrari make mistakes, infact in the last years they dropped down, due to bad choices... if there was no limits, they could have all the ways to develop other technologies, spending a small nation GDP, mantaining the lead and annihilating the "enemies". To report all into our overclocking world... the only way for a good skilled clockers not supported by anybody to compete against kingpin and andreyang (just an example) is that them will get both fired by evga and intel respectively? I prefer the other way: ES allowed but getting no points... the WRs will be probably continue to be done by using ESs and they still earn the respect and ammiration fo the whole community, but the points will be earned only where everybody can compete with hardware you can buy (no, a 980x ES sold at 2.000euros isn't something that the 95% of the clockers can buy). You are a rich guy and you can buy 10 retail 980x? Whoa, you're a lucky guy, but maybe you have to spend a lot to find the monster one... maybe I can buy only one 980x but a very good one at the first choice! So it's luck vs. luck. Allowing the ESs is Certainty vs Lucky. For me, ES allowed, with no points earned from them.

Very interesting mobo there, and very nice work you did Pieter. I'll stay tuned to see what more you'll be able to squeeze out from that mobo!

Giancarlo, 7ornado was answering to hiwa, not to you, so why don't we all close that question as we already said? Come on guys, the reporting of HW forest has led to their ban from pcworld, and that's the important fact. No more posts from us, bye!!

Hiwa, there was no intention to do a flame from me, that topic led to the ban of two people and to an "investigation" on the other guys while they had in team that kind of cheaters, so instead of saying me to beg up and finish, you should say thanks for the time me and my guys spent to do a full report of painted screens etc... I don't like to be labeled as "the one who kills italian reputation", if tomorrow I'll find a british, american, russian team, I'll go through it as well and I HOPE that everybody here don't look to nationality but to hwbot rules, when it comes to report something. That forum section exists just to report everything not completely clear, to report something to control etc... it's not the judgment day, come on!

So, I spoke with Giancarlo, I already said to Pieter all the facts but I'll report them there anyway, to let everybody who have followed the thread understand. When giancarlo was speaking about "selling hw inside the team", he didn't specify that in their forums, you can register and activate something like on XS "I'm Xtreme": that gives you special discounts for buying LN2 and also for buying HW. The fact he didn't say is that these "xtreme users" are not in the hwbot team. For the rest, he assured me that they spend a LOT of money in hw, they can prove everything etc: so, given that I'm not an investigator, I think it's better to leave to you, mods, the decision wether to ask them or not the bills, pics etc... I was also starting a proposal between italian teams, to avoid things like that in the future, a proposal to upload one or two pics of our bench rigs in every submission we do, to give an extra proof of fairness. So, last word is yours, thor, I don't know if you want to proceed "investigations" or not, I only ask to be informed maybe on this thread about the conclusion, thanks!

Thanks Pieter for opening the thread! So, here we are with the first release of italian translation. I already did a lot of debugging but I'm sure that a little bit of tuning still remains to be done. So, now I need to translate also the last 3.6 version little txt?

I would like to inform that I'm going to speak with Giancarlo later today or in the next days, to see if we can clarify eveything and listen to each other. As soon as we will have spoken, I'll report to you the (I hope) conclusion.

ooohhh please, now you're menacing of legal actions against me for diffamation, when I was bringing all that to mod's attention... diffamation for what? to what company? I don't even know their names... -.- So, don't try to intimidate anybody, you had one or 2 people in your time who was/were clearly cheating, so for now my reportings were right. I repeat, last time, if you can demonstrate all the mods will ask, then I'm glad to have another italian team around there. If not, then you'll probably re-start from scratch. And, for the last last time, stop to say that I fear you and your team, and to be more precise, let's post our PM: I wrote: "Primo, non mi frega nulla dell'età che tu hai o di quella che ho io, se siete un team di gente che non rispetta le regole, per me siete da bannare o da sanzionare, come su ogni sito del mondo. Gli screen sono chiaramente photoshoppati, basta guardare solo quelli che ho linkato, sono identici al millimetro, che coincidenza eh. Quindi, già laurus e hw forest andrebbero bannati. Venendo a voialtri invece, forse non vi è chiaro che le cose non potete condividerle, le volete vendere all'interno del team? bene, non potranno essere usate per postare punti, altrimenti è hw sharing. I mod forse diranno che invece va bene? perfetto, in questo caso lo faremo anche noi e andremo di botto a 10.000 e più punti. Quindi come vedi, in ogni caso, non mi interessa di voi e del vostro team, non vi conosco ma non ho affatto una buona impressione visto come agite e... sì, mi da fastidio che un team di 4 mesi di vita barando e non rispettando le regole, abbia oltre 5.000 punti, quando noi e tutti gli altri team (fino a prova contraria) ci siamo fatti il culo per avere quelli che abbiamo. Quindi, minacciami pure, io ho riportato dei fatti, se ti rode leggiti prima le regole, POI posta su hwbot." The underlined part is what Giancarlo continues to use against me... I'll translate in english that part: "So, as you see, I don't mind you and your team, I don't even know you but I can say that you didn't impress me well given the way you act and... yes, I find annoying that a team estabilished 4 months ago or so, cheating and don't respecting the rules, has over 5.000points, when we (hwproject) and all other teams (until something else is cleared out) have worked hard and clean to arrive were we are." And now, I strangely agree with you, that's going annoying, we're only attacking each other, I'm stop posting until Pieter or some mod will make the decision public, I promise. If the mods will choose to keep pcworld in game, then we'll have (now) a clean competitor, otherwise not. Nothing changes for us, good night and good luck. p.s: oh, and don't worry, if all that "illations" I'm saying to you will turn out to be false, I'll apologize to you just there where all people can see that I was wrong.

So, first you admitted that you bought hardware, then you used it inside the whole team (selling to each other VGAs etc...) and you think that this is not forbidden because you pay everything. Now, you're saying that you have invoices of everything, that you can prove etc...etc... The fact is that you can buy even 10.000 VGAs, but you can't use the same VGAs through the other team members, doesn't matter if you sold those to them, you must prove that every vga you and your team mates used to submit scores has a different serial. And, I suppose (the mods will judge that, I don't know), that if you have partecipations into two computer shops, it's clear that you could have invoices of everything... the fact to point out is that the invoices have been registered to YOU or not, because if the shop bought 10 VGAs, then it's normal... a shop must buy a lot of hardware to sell it to other customers...

Yeah, cheating I don't fear competition, I hate when someone ramps up in rankings, cheating... so, hwforest and laurus togheter counted for roughly 1.000points... is that a good reason to go angry, or not, for you? For me, yes. Do we want to publish the entire pm? No probs for me, nothing to hide... it's you that, in front of cheating evidences, continued to say to check hw forest screens etc... It's better that you take time to think to keep your team where it is, instead of saying stupid illations to me. Baah, I see that is pointless to continue talking with you, let the mods to their work... if you all didn't do hw sharing I would be so happy: italians reputation will not be harmed anymore!

Well Giancarlo, then if you got invoices of 10x5870, rsannino got invoices of even more VGAs etc, then in case the mods will ask you to prove them that it's not hw sharing, you will be sure that nothing will happen to your/their screens and points.

Giancarlo, I don't want to answer anymore to you, everything is in mod's hands now, if you have nothing to hide, then you'll remain untouched. Would you like to have another photoshop link from hwforest that I didn't report before? Oh yes, here it is: http://hwbot.org/community/submission/983868_team_hardware_forest_3dmark_2001_geforce_8800_gtx_79463_marks Look at the VGA model... this isn't a photoshop, they used PAINT to do a bad work like that -.-

Oh Pieter, well, so something's working on that segnalation! I hope they do quickly because giancarlo started to speak to me about diffamation etc... It seems I uncovered Pandora's box -.- @giancarlo: i link li ho messi nel primo post, non so se siano tutti, chiedi a laurus o hw forest che ti sanno aiutare meglio. Cmq puoi anche finirla col minacciarmi, io ho segnalato una cosa, se ho ragione verrete sanzionati, sennò avrai ragione te, molto semplice.

I'll answer your silly illations later in PM, now I'm at work and I don't have so much time to spend saying something to somebody who doesn't see that your team mates have bad photoshopping skills. It's under everybody's eyes, just look at the screens.

There's nothing to check, the screens are photoshopped, you can create an animated gif by playing them in sequence, there are also graphical artifacts. So, hardware forest and laurus are cheaters, you have admitted to do hardware sharing... for me it's enough. Take a look to hwbot rules, maybe you weren't cheating by knowing it, nonetheless you and your time did hw sharing. As for your question "if i sell a piece of hw to somebody inside my team", I think NO, he can't post to earn points... OR you remove your previous screens done with that hw. But.. I only read the rules and I drove my team to follow them... the last word will be from the mods, obviously.

Yeah, infact Team hardware forest has 800points... soooo little points. Selling vgas to other guys in your time isn't forbidden. It's forbidden to post in the same category. Even in our team we pass each other some pieces of hw when we can, for example the Sapphire HD4890 Atomic: the difference is that, when somebody obtains a much higher score for example in Aquamark, the previous score will be deleted (or marked "no partecipation to hwboints") and the new, better one posted. For the rest, I didn't understand quite well because of the google translation that introduces mistakes and errors...

Thanks alex! Mods, can you please give us a feedback aboutall that question?