Dualist Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 Hi guys, I saw this thread over on XS.. http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=194733 I have no problem with SF3D, I love his benches but on reading the thread it admits that they only had one chip and Neoforce also borrowed it and submitted the 2D benches that he did. Isn't that a bit naughty, surely only SF3D could do that.? I have no problem with the 3D benches if that was his card though. Regards, Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF3D Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 Intel russia provided this CPU to our croup for this bench weekend. It is not mine or NeoForce's CPU. I had an opportunity to test it and so did Neo. We benched separately and with two totally different setups. Maximus II Formula OCZ DDR2 etc.. P5Q3 Deluxe G.Skill DDR3 HZ etc.. The Aquamark score is done with my GTX 280 and I took that other submission down, cause we didn't have time to discuss about that score. That would be the HW sharing of course and I don't want that. Everything should be fine now. If you or someone else have any questions, please send me e-mail or PM. Thank you and I hope you enjoy our scores! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dualist Posted July 14, 2008 Author Share Posted July 14, 2008 (edited) I'm sorry, I've sent you a pm but this matter should be out in the open. There can only be one user of a piece of hardware according to the HWBot rules, either be it you or Neoforce. One of you should take responsibility for it. Loved the scores, results and the thread from you guys but please don't create a 'us and them' rules situation between the mods and the rest of us benchers as to regards hardware. Edited July 14, 2008 by Dualist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gprhellas Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 Hello guys SF3D is my friend and I have respect to his name. But I think that Dualist has some right on it. By the HWBOT rules with the same Hardware in 2D (cpu ) only one person can handle the results. The two different setup of hardware is really independent but only in 3d bench how take place the same day. If the benches take place a difference date then no problem. Let’s say an example. I wait an 8600ES from Intel here in Greece. After I finished my bench and I returned the cpu to Intel and give the same CPU to hipro (Intel not me) for his test and bench then all is ok by the Hwbot rules. But the same day if I go to hipro;s lab with my setup (except the cpu) and play together with hipro is right to post the results to Hwbot? I wait an answer for that. Btw @SF3D I like your Aquamark m8……realy impressive….one in a million… (...but still by the rules my score will be upper because it is older (by the rules I think)… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hipro5 Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 (edited) Scratching my head for two days now to find out what's right and what's wrong with everything about sharing hardware..... According to the rules (PLUS with past discussions) a "UNIQUE CPU - THE EXACT SAME - " (for example), CAN be benched by TOO MANY people and upload their 2D resaults IF AND ONLY IF THEY BELONG TO A DIFFERENT TEAM For example: If I have a CPU and bench 2Ds and then I give it to a member of TEAM OCX, then ONLY ONE member of them CAN upload 2D resaults with it and NONE ELSE BETWEEN the team..... Now if SF3D and the other guy ARE in the SAME TEAM, this was NOT OK.....BUT IF they BELONG to DIFFERENT TEAMS, it IS OK EVEN if they benched the EXACT SAME DAY..... MY problem is that the first 20 of each 3D benchie MUST upload a valid ORB link........ P.S. Coolaler's SPI 1M is fake..... Edited July 15, 2008 by hipro5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crew NeoForce Posted July 15, 2008 Crew Share Posted July 15, 2008 This thread is spoiling an idea of benching at all. Why people who gathered together and spent 2 days on doing such results on different setups, from different teams should not post results? We`ve got this CPU only for weekend so we won`t get higher scores. I`ll remove my scores, but be careful to post your own. Everyone can be accused in such way. If we just don`t post our photos on XS no one will know that we were benching together. We make steps to international meetings and events. But your posts make us criminals. Let`s prohibit to sell hardware, and taking it from vendors, lets bench FAKE Pi and draw results in PS - and there will be no suspicious scores. Everyone will khow - this guy draw it himself - without anyones help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dualist Posted July 15, 2008 Author Share Posted July 15, 2008 According to the rules (PLUS with past discussions) a "UNIQUE CPU - THE EXACT SAME - " (for example), CAN be benched by TOO MANY people and upload their 2D resaults IF AND ONLY IF THEY BELONG TO A DIFFERENT TEAM If this is true in the rules then I sincerely publicly applogise to both SF3D and to Neoforce. But the way I saw the rules were that no sharing at all, even between teams. Again I applogise as this not the case. If it's not then please re-submit your benchmarks Neoforce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crew NeoForce Posted July 15, 2008 Crew Share Posted July 15, 2008 http://hwbot.org/forum/showpost.php?p=10457&postcount=14 richba5tard said: Our official standpoint is this: sharing hardware for a one time bench session is allowed, but actively sharing hardware in order to get more points, is prohibited. I hope this post is enough to clear our names? And I think such cases as international bench sessions won`t be counted as sharing ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF3D Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 -Dualist: Thanks for the thread. Everyone have a right to discuss these issues, so no need to worry -gprhellas: We benched only one 3D benchmark (AM3) and we used my GTX 280 on single stage, so frequencys were the same. Neoforce tried his 9800GX2 too, so that score should be legal by the all rules. The system decides which score is "higher", so the newer submit gets better place in rank. I haven't seen exactly same scores in AM3 with totally different HW -Hipro5: You are right here and we benched different setups independently on saturday and sunday like I told in my thread in XS. Rules for Top 20 3D scores will remain the same in the future too. Keep benching guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t0mz0r Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 Scratching my head for two days now to find out what's right and what's wrong with everything about sharing hardware..... Same here.. P.S. Coolaler's SPI 1M is fake..... Looks valid to me? :ws: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jurek Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 or maybe for valid benchmark it has to be users hardware not lent one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knopflerbruce Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 Just a quick HW sharing question... my opteron 165 WR chip was bought from a team member who submitted a score here. That's legal, right? No HW sharing issues? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jurek Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 i guess everyone is confused now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF3D Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 Just a quick HW sharing question... my opteron 165 WR chip was bought from a team member who submitted a score here. That's legal, right? No HW sharing issues? No problems! We just have to believe that you bought the chip. That's the way it is, so no worries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jurek Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 if benching is bout believing why online verification is needed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hipro5 Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 if benching is bout believing why online verification is needed? THAT'S the MOST complex thing about hwbot..... There is no way of proving anything..... It's only about believing..... The cheaters will be cought from time to time even if they are clever..... Problem is that the cheaters SHOULDN'T come back here at hwbot EVEN after a year's time..... P.S. Coolaler's SPI 1M is fake...... Tapakah's SPI 1M with the FOXCONN mobo is NO WAY.... (I've benched with it at 6150MHz and I know).... .....and so many others...... well that's life in the benching world.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hipro5 Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 (edited) George, why do you think Tapakah made his result on Foxconn?It was P5K3 as I can see His previews resaults was made with the Foxconn (as he described).... This one has a QUANTUM FORCE logo...... If he made it with another mobo (which whould be OK with an older bios which is not "seeing" the CPU right, it IS possible), then WHY he puts the QUANTUM FORCE logo on it.....This is a LIE into my eyes..... You can't bench with a company and put other company's logo onto your screenshots...... This is NOT ethical.....It's a LIE for me and that's the way it goes..... Write down ASUS.....NOT Foxconn...... By "manipulating" EVEN the final resault, what do you expect to gain?.... http://74.125.39.104/search?q=cache:z5AX_LMu-SsJ:www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php%3Ft%3D59753%26page%3D55+tapakah+cheater&hl=el&ct=clnk&cd=5&gl=gr http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=21807 http://www.eoz.lv/forum/showpost.php?p=77242&postcount=175 http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=126554 People seems to forget, but at least I don't..... . Edited July 16, 2008 by hipro5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeDaL Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/6165/7469iz5.png His previews result. On Asus and 0501 bios. I don't see any fake here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t0mz0r Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/6165/7469iz5.png His previews result. On Asus and 0501 bios. I don't see any fake here. +1 :battle: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaPaKaH Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 (edited) To clear things up: 7.469s 1M / 8:03 32M (QX9650) were done on a mrlobber's P5K3 board. We benched together, the owner of CPU was he, so he owns the result. no conflict with hwbot rules. Since he didn't want to kill the CPU trying high Vcore for the WR - I've bought it from him (can show online bank transfer printouts, if necessary) and we tried it with BlitzExtreme board (I've wrote rig. specs at OCX) and did 7.406s 1M which was WR. The owner of CPU was me, if hwbot has anything against it - we will remove one 1M score as that may look like "local hardware sharing" even though I paid full price for the CPU. The QFS logo on the hwbot version of the screen is put due to support I recieved from Foxconn programme in face of 2x1Gb HyperX DDR3 kit which I used for the record. If it is confusing for some, I am ready to upload "normal" screen with no logo. I think that everyone knows, that BlackOps doesn't have "pre45nm" BIOS to boost 1M scores, do you agree? George, let's not start name calling in public again, but I believe that coolaler's record is valid. - As we know, he cooperates with Intel and he INDEED! has access to handpicked pre-released hardware. - He showed CPUz verification / various FM links of CPU running in those MHZ area, so there was no problem for him to run 1M at that clock. - If you think that getting 6.3GHz+ on a E8xxx is impossible, you'd better check on latest results from TeamJapan where like 5 people were getting old-gen E8500s to such clocks. Edited July 16, 2008 by TaPaKaH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monstru Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Oh...you guys.....why does this "cheating" issue comes up everytime somebody has a very good score? Isn't this what this is all about? I mean...Let's put it this way....If everybody ordinary things that you can expect...there is no more challenge in o/c. SuperPi 1M can be faked.....so...everybody's score could be cheated, not only some guy's. But I look at this and I am thinking... http://service.futuremark.com/resultComparison.action?compareResultId=9392606&compareResultType=6 This is not a cheat... So...some guys that can get a 2k1 WR, can also get a SuperPi WR in my book Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hipro5 Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 (edited) @ TaPaKaH: about 1M SPI....It's OK if it was done with another mobo than Foxconn...but please remove to logo cuz you're "confusing" people..... About Coolaler's 1M SPI ....no other comment for now...When I go down to Taiwan, I hope that he'll be there too, to show me in person the 0.2s gain he always gets from others at ~ same frequency in SPI 1M...OR will he avoid me (as he and his friend do!)? Edited July 16, 2008 by hipro5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaPaKaH Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 George, sorry for confusion. Will be done ASAP As for coolaler - you know how hwbot works 1.Found suspicious score 2.Don't start flame in public 3.Report the score with your points why it's not valid 4.Let hwcrew decide on it's validity... Me and other people already expressed my opinion - that we see it as valid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nosfer@tu Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 GREAT respect to EVERYBODY at OCX. You overclock very skilled!!!! I just don't understand pp numbers below 45K. Only users from OCX can do this I look at it like this. Everybody in the world benches superpi. They all get good scores. But 3-4 users are able to get MUCH faster times. WHY ? Because they know a tweak or ? I dont want to point fingers, But I think it SUX that we are not able to compeat with those 3-4 users because they get WAY better times than anybody else. Cheat or Tweak, I dont know. But it isent funny to bench Superpi anymore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hipro5 Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 GREAT respect to EVERYBODY at OCX. You overclock very skilled!!!! I just don't understand pp numbers below 45K. Only users from OCX can do this I look at it like this. Everybody in the world benches superpi. They all get good scores. But 3-4 users are able to get MUCH faster times. WHY ? Because they know a tweak or ? I dont want to point fingers, But I think it SUX that we are not able to compeat with those 3-4 users because they get WAY better times than anybody else. Cheat or Tweak, I dont know. But it isent funny to bench Superpi anymore I'll tell you if it's cheat or tweak when I go to Taiwan and find Coolaler (if he shows up)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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