HWBoints Adjustment #2: HwPoint Motivation

[Massman]

The second issue to address was the sudden decrease in motivation to bench old, rare and exclusive hardware because of the tweaked HWBoints algorithm that attempts discriminate between huge effort and low effort results. Although this algorithm does seem to work pretty good in the categories where there's a bit of competition (~20 participants and more), in the extremely low competitive categories the algorithm makes the curve very steep.

 

The key issue is that this creates a a spiral of non-participance in the category: the ranking has no competitors, so the points are low. Because the points are low, less people are motivated to submit into the category. Because less people submit, the points remain low.

 

To solve this, we have will tweak the algorithm a bit for these categories. Not to reward those who are first per definition, but to motivate people to increase the competition in that category.

 

How does the algorithm work?

 

The concept is a very simple one and actually comes from rev2 of the HWBoints algorithm. For all categories having <20 participants, we apply one and the same lineair point distribution. From the moment the category hits 20 participants, we switch to the HWBoints algorithm.

 

 

The first column represents the points currently awarded when 10 people are competing, the second column how the lineair algorithm will distribute points and the third column what happens when the HWBoints-curve takes over. Note that this change will affect the points in the categories with 11 to 19 participants: the current top scores will see a small decrease in points initially. Our main objective is to make each category competitive enough to fall under the HWBoints-algorithm.

 

We've added a poll to see if everyone can live with this. If you have any comments, don't hesitate to throw a reply into the thread. But please, keep it civil and understandible. For complaints, go here.

[der8auer]

Thats a great solution! Thanks

[egm_xt]

It looks to me as a much better solution. This way the motivation for benching stuff that has not been benched or with just a few results is back. I voted Yes.

 

To address the less points in the 11 to 19 range a sugestion for fine tuning would be:

 

one table from 1 to 10 participants and another for between 10 to 19 like this:

 

------ 1 to 10 ----- 11 to 19 ---- 20+ rev3.0

 

1 ------- 2 ----------- 3 ------------- 3.6

2 ------- 1.5 --------- 2 ------------- 2.6

3 ------- 1 ----------- 1.5------------ 1.9

4 ------- 0.8 --------- 1.2------------ 1.4

5 ------- 0.6 --------- 1.0 ----------- 1.1

6 ------- 0.5 --------- 0.7 ----------- 0.8

7 ------- 0.4 --------- 0.5 ----------- 0.6

8 ------- 0.3 --------- 0.4 ----------- 0.4

9 ------- 0.2 --------- 0.2 ----------- 0.2

10 ------ 0.1 --------- 0.1 ----------- 0.1

 

 

I don´t believe this is a serious problem but if it is not hard to implement I believe it could help balance things.

 

Thank you.

Edited January 6, 2010 by egm_xt

[Alriin]

Great! thx

[road-runner]

Doesnt matter to me anymore, due to lack of motivation because of all the changes I sold everything so....

[Guest cowgut]

i sold some suff too but i anit no quiter...but i dont like it neither.

for all the guys that feel like your just going to not bother anymore plz reconsider just lay low get a points benching plan and give the pros heck all we can

 

as for this new plan i dont think its enuff BUT its a start

[Berserker]

Jippie. Thx!

[Mr.Scott]

Very much appreciated.

[Don_Dan]

Haha Massman, you stole my idea! :-P

[komadyret]

I guess we can live with that

Bench the hardware, and sell it for a little coin to someone who benches it, and buy it back to try beat his scores again LOL

 

I think this move is sufficient to keep the benching going for a few months until we can analyze the impact of rev.3 on the community

[Whoosaa]

[x] Yes, I do

 

I voted yes, since it's an improvement to the original rev3 algorithm, but in my eyes it still ain't the perfect solution, and those 2 points I would get now still don't motivate me as much to buy and oc old hw as the 12 points I was looking at with the "rev2" algorithm.

Sad, but I guess that's as far as yall will go - or can we hope for another change in the algorithm for unpopular hw within the next months?

[BenchBruno]

Well i voted yes, too.

It's an improvement to what it was before, but i think the points are still a bit too low.

 

Thank you for listening to the wishes and ideas of the community.

[klopcha]

Very good idea! I voted yes. But there is still work here.

[Thor941]

I voted yes, but my main motiviation with oldies/not popular HW was the awards with achievements like being HW junkie, I have benched my 3 summer holiday weeks last year to achive it - now it doesn't mean anything at all

[Techtrancer]

hurra......ich freu mich auf die umstellung......wetten das ich noch weiter falle oder sich im besten falle frisch nix verändert?

anstelle das etwas gescheites gemacht wird und endlich AMD und INTEL gesplittet wird..........

selbst nach der umstellung sieht es nach wie vor so aus, das man unmengen CPUs selektieren muss um in der AMD ecke bei irgend ner CPU nen WR zu holen und wird mit im schnit max 3-5 punkten belohnt.

bei intel gibt es fürs selbige dann mal min 30 wenn sie halbwegs aktuell ist

wohlgemerkt bei absolut ident erbrachter leistung#

 

anderst ausgedrückt:

 

hol ich mir als blindgänger irgend ne aktuellen intel und hab nen glückstreffer bin ich mit einer deämlichen CPU schon fast in den top 100 oder eventuell noch weiter oben

mit AMD? da kannst 100 WR CPUs benchen bis du die selben punkte wir der einen dämlichen intel CPU hast. und nicht mal dann, denn dafür braucht man auch globals.

 

PS.: hab keine lust es ins englische zu übersetzen, da ich angepisst bin. daher nur ==> http://www.google.at/language_tools'>http://www.google.at/language_tools

 

 

***********************************************************************************************************

***********************************************************************************************************

 

hurray ...... freu I bet me on the changeover ...... I still continue to fall or at best fall fresh nothing changed?

made to replace the somewhat clever, and will finally AMD and INTEL is split ..........

even after the changeover situation is still the case that one needs to select to edit many CPUs in the corner with some AMD CPU ner nen WR get it, and comes with the Schnit max 3-5 points rewarded.

at intel there for that very time then 30 minutes if it is currently half-way

mind you at absolutely identical power supplied #

 

anderst words

 

I'll get me as blindgänger some current intel and ne nen have glückstreffer I am with a deämlichen CPU almost in the top 100 or possibly even earlier

AMD? there can Benchen WR 100 CPUs up to you the same points, we have one stupid intel CPU. and not even then, because that's why you also need globals.

 

PS.: Have no lust to translate it into English, because I'm pissed off. therefore, only ==> http://www.google.at/language_tools

Edited January 7, 2010 by Techtrancer

[TRG]

[x] YES

 

I think that a 2 point minimum for a golden cup is fair enough. It means that with an unpopular piece of hardware you can get a quick 8-10 points by running most of the benchmarks and populating position 1. To my opinion 8 points is quite significant.

 

I also think it's a pity that the hardware junkie award is gone, especially because I _just_ earned it before rev3. Why not just adding those awards to the current list of achievements, maybe with a special colour so that you have an 'early HWBOT days achievement' in your profile (which will be cool in a few years ).

[Techtrancer]

i loose 600 places on the 1.1.2010 !

 

i stop benching for hwbot now. only start again, what AMD & INTEL is splitted

 

because ripping.org, sysprofiles and every other community arround the world splits AMD and INTEL

 

but the bigges community of all arround the world called "HWbot" dont do this

[Chiller]

very good idea

[Eeky NoX]

Nice after all even if I was always looking for the less benched HW to attempt some points easier without xtrem cold access ...dreamin of the firsts places for little time.

...I gat to change my technique now (and also sellin all those lowcost componements that won't give me nothing anymore urg! ^^)

 

Edit: oh! very fun that my first little OC gave me so much points in the rev3 (burnin Elemental Dragon lol) I submited that proudly at that time ! less proud of the score that did !

 

As I am noob Thx for all the improvements though !

Edited January 7, 2010 by Eeky NoX

[guppanu]

/agree

voted yes

[knopflerbruce]

i loose 600 places on the 1.1.2010 !

 

i stop benching for hwbot now. only start again, what AMD & INTEL is splitted

 

because ripping.org, sysprofiles and every other community arround the world splits AMD and INTEL

 

but the bigges community of all arround the world called "HWbot" dont do this

 

There's no reason to split AMD and Intel, as it's the different CORES that make the difference. If AMD vs Intel needs a split, then Nehalem and WOlfdale needs it, too... and San Diego and Deneb and so on. I doubt they will get completely separated, but in some future update there may be additional tanks based on those kind of things, so you will get rewarded for stuff like the best Athlon 64 submission, Nehalem core submission etc as well as the overall and for the specific hardware model.

[Deviancexx]

Great idea and I love the new improvements!

[Techtrancer]

There's no reason to split AMD and Intel, as it's the different CORES that make the difference. If AMD vs Intel needs a split, then Nehalem and WOlfdale needs it, too... and San Diego and Deneb and so on. I doubt they will get completely separated, but in some future update there may be additional tanks based on those kind of things, so you will get rewarded for stuff like the best Athlon 64 submission, Nehalem core submission etc as well as the overall and for the specific hardware model.

you are wrong.

 

there are manny different reasions to split HWbot

 

*) INTEL wants to have the fastest CPU (diffent benchmarks are INTEL optimiced and this know everybody around the world)

*) AMD produce price/performance CPU

 

this is one of manny big different and in the future this different will not be other.

 

and here are a few other:

 

*) Superpi is INTEL Optimized

*) 3DMark 06 is INTEL Optimized

*) 3DMark Vantage is INTEL Optimized

*) benchmarks in the future could also be INTEL ore AMD ore ATI ore NVIDIA optimiced

*) why should i bench and match me with INTEL when i am not interested for?

*) why should i bench an AMD for HWBot, if i earn only peanuts of hardware points and no globals?.....i could have the fastest AMD CPU around the world and could not get globals.........thats stupid

*) because the AMD user on HWbot cant´t get hwboints, everey HWBot user with an new INTEL CPU benefits of every AMD benchmark

*) if i bencht 100 realy good AMD CPU. i only get peanuts of hardware points and finaly i has 100 hardware points ore so. and i can never get globals!

*) if i bench one stupid realy good i7 wich runs 6ghz ore so, i wil get much more pionts than the 100 AMD CPU

*) before 1.1.2010 HWBot was INTEL optimized. after this day it is much more INTEL optimized than before

 

take a look on the street.

there is a VW Käfer and there is also a Ferrari.

the VW Käfer is a Car, and the Ferrari is also a Car.

but if you want to race, there must be same conditions for all.

because the VW Käfer can not race with a Ferrari, because they are to different and everybody knows, that the ferrari will win. but also everybody knows, that the VW käfer is cheap and has a long live and the Ferrari is expensive and has no long live. and also they know, that Ferrari drives in the F1 and so Ferrari knows much more not allowed tricks than VW.

and so everybody is interested to knwow wich Ferrari is the fastest of all Ferrari and also wich VW käfer is the fastest one of all VW Käfer

so finaly the Ferrari race with the other Ferrari and the VW Käfer race with the other VW Käfer

 

my decision has been made.....i will never bench for HWbot again, befor AMD and INTEL is splitted beacause it is not interesting to bench an AMD CPU for HWbot at the moment

Edited January 9, 2010 by Techtrancer

[Don_Dan]

*) why should i bench and match me with INTEL when i am not interested for?

For having fun?! Why did you start with overclocking? Just for earning points or because you wanted to beat your personal records?

*) why should i bench an AMD for HWBot, if i earn only peanuts of hardware points and no globals?.....i could have the fastest AMD CPU around the world and could not get globals.........thats stupid

*) because the AMD user on HWbot cant´t get hwboints, everey HWBot user with an new INTEL CPU benefits of every AMD benchmark

*) if i bencht 100 realy good AMD CPU. i only get peanuts of hardware points and finaly i has 100 hardware points ore so. and i can never get globals!

 

This is so wrong, have a look: http://hwbot.org/result.do?resultId=930721

[Massman]

my decision has been made.....i will never bench for HWbot again, befor AMD and INTEL is splitted beacause it is not interesting to bench an AMD CPU for HWbot at the moment

 

Okay.