knopflerbruce Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 I've got the impression that this rule isn't very clear - even within the crew:D The rules say something about sharing... if one guy sells one CPU to another user, that's not sharing - that's selling, which is OK. However, if this guy benches it and sells it next week to another member, the whole selling process is not about the sale itself, but to gain more boints - and then we'll look at it as sharing, and start punishing people. I haven't looked into this specific case, but if the new owner keeps it for a few months, I would say it's OK. The most important thing is that it's not tossed around to a whole bunch of members. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oj0 Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 If this CPU was sold or loaned, don't delete the result. Hiwa's result is already down so deleting the "second place" result is effectively deletint the CPU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaadDaawg Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 Jeez, turn your back for a week or two and look what happens! I'm still trying to get over the feeling of "betrayal" of v3 cutting my boints in half, now this Sad is the word for it, but not necessarily using the non-happy definition of the word. Personally I am not in Andre's or Hiwa's league so I wasn't cheated out of anything material, but I can understand why those who were are as upset as they are. Then, this mipmap thing I knew nothing about ... sad, cause now ya gotta think bending the rules is more commonplace than you'd really like to think it is. I haven't been benching for awhile due to personal issues, but I've got my rigs rebuilt and my dewar full and won't be away forever, I'll post here cause it's the only game in town and the only place I can see how I'm doing compared to others. If my scores are lower cause of some goings on I'm not privvy too, such is life. Just gotta stay true to yourself and hope others do the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jor3llBR/Elano Posted July 23, 2010 Author Share Posted July 23, 2010 I've got the impression that this rule isn't very clear - even within the crew:D The rules say something about sharing... if one guy sells one CPU to another user, that's not sharing - that's selling, which is OK. However, if this guy benches it and sells it next week to another member, the whole selling process is not about the sale itself, but to gain more boints - and then we'll look at it as sharing, and start punishing people. I haven't looked into this specific case, but if the new owner keeps it for a few months, I would say it's OK. The most important thing is that it's not tossed around to a whole bunch of members. If this CPU was sold or loaned, don't delete the result. Hiwa's result is already down so deleting the "second place" result is effectively deletint the CPU. There is no way of verifying that information (was it really sold, is it the same cpu, did the other guy really bench it etc) only thing I know it's that the same cpu was used by the same team more then once to give that team points and in this case more then 200 points counting spi, pifast etc. The way you guys are putting this is just making the rules more confusing and subject to the famous 'bending'... If there was an admission that the same cpu was used to produce results within the same team this is more then enough to mark the submissions unacceptable. Oj0 - what you say doesn't make any sense, sorry, one punishment has nothing to do with the other (Hiwa's case has nothing to do with the team mate's submission w/ the same cpu), maybe when Hiwa's ban is lifted he will post these results again. The point here is HWbot enforcing this rule or not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jor3llBR/Elano Posted July 23, 2010 Author Share Posted July 23, 2010 Cristal Clear: 4. Lending hardware, hardware sharing, score sharing/selling/buying This in a delicate subject as we have to trust on the honesty of those participating at the HWbot that they are indeed using their own hardware and not sharing a golden sample CPU or VGA card. Let’s start with what is allowed to be shared: everything… except: - VGA may not be shared for 3D Benchmarks - CPU may not be shared for 2D Benchmarks - special cases, like what to do with joint bench sessions and manufacturer hardware is explained here. 3952208.jpg While the rules are quite simple and straightforward, enforcing them isn’t. If you are having a joint benchmark session, provide as much proof and information as possible when you submit a new HWBot score, which shows you were using your own hardware for the benchmark in question, a photo with a paper showing your nickname and the product serial number is good way to do this. Now enforce the rule... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monstru Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 Sharing is strictly forbiden. Selling is not. That is very clear, however easy to verify or not it is. Much of the overclocking community is about honor and word, that is how it has functioned so far. In this case, nobody can prove they are done with a sold CPU, or not. You chose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jor3llBR/Elano Posted July 23, 2010 Author Share Posted July 23, 2010 Sharing is strictly forbiden. Selling is not. That is very clear, however easy to verify or not it is. Much of the overclocking community is about honor and word, that is how it has functioned so far. In this case, nobody can prove they are done with a sold CPU, or not. You chose Yeah if it all comes down to proof as in a Court then we have to rely on his word. Case settled& closed then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knopflerbruce Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 Cristal Clear: 4. Lending hardware, hardware sharing, score sharing/selling/buying This in a delicate subject as we have to trust on the honesty of those participating at the HWbot that they are indeed using their own hardware and not sharing a golden sample CPU or VGA card. Let’s start with what is allowed to be shared: everything… except: - VGA may not be shared for 3D Benchmarks - CPU may not be shared for 2D Benchmarks - special cases, like what to do with joint bench sessions and manufacturer hardware is explained here. 3952208.jpg While the rules are quite simple and straightforward, enforcing them isn’t. If you are having a joint benchmark session, provide as much proof and information as possible when you submit a new HWBot score, which shows you were using your own hardware for the benchmark in question, a photo with a paper showing your nickname and the product serial number is good way to do this. Now enforce the rule... It says that you have to use your own HW (except for the parts that can be shared without breaking the rules), and if the CPU was SOLD it's no longer owned by Hiwa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jor3llBR/Elano Posted July 23, 2010 Author Share Posted July 23, 2010 It says that you have to use your own HW (except for the parts that can be shared without breaking the rules), and if the CPU was SOLD it's no longer owned by Hiwa. Once you start lying: The CPU was borrowed on April/2010 to Pippo where the results were obtained: http://www.nexthardware.com/recensioni/schede-madri/330/evga-p55-classified-200_10.htm Hiwa said he last used the cpu on May/2010: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=252209&highlight=670 So common what you gonna say next to defend this behavior? He just waited a couple more months to post results and go on unnoticed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jor3llBR/Elano Posted July 23, 2010 Author Share Posted July 23, 2010 (edited) Need more proof: i don't need to do it, Pippo is a nice guy please stop it, just check a review(is it my setup? my post? my bench zone?), he asked to me the chip to test some OC and review his board, i didn't use the chip anymore caz i passed to gulftown so i sold it to him, it's happend some weeks ago guys.he benched some pi and pifast and then he benched wprime. BTW as i said before the sold to him for the review but in freetimes he make some score. and it's not selling/buying SCORE for money guys, maybe u say he is your teamamate and you can't sell hardware in same team, OK you are right, BUT cpu sold for the review and his fun notthing else , delete the scores is it's illegal sell hardware for the review to my ES teammate. BUT please guys don't check all scores around to find a new story. It was my first and last time, i really hope a day i can come back and start benching but you are killing me guys... thanks god i could post for one more time .... So Hiwa didn't sell jack to Pippo but BORROWED the cpu for the REVIEW on April/2010. He received the CPU back and benched away on MAY/2010... What else? EDIT: http://hwbot.org/community/submission/993568_pippo369_cpu_z_core_i5_670_6703.36_mhz http://hwbot.org/community/submission/993574_pippo369_pifast_core_i5_670_14.64_sec http://hwbot.org/community/submission/993571_pippo369_superpi_core_i5_670_6sec_593ms If thru the entire HWbot administrators there is no one that can see this as a matter of principals and ethics I really prefer to give up on this sport & community... Edited July 23, 2010 by Jor3llBR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Scott Posted July 24, 2010 Share Posted July 24, 2010 Hard to deny solid proof like that. Nice detective work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxi Posted July 24, 2010 Share Posted July 24, 2010 JorelleBR, We appreciate you bringing facts to our attention, but please stop bashing hwbot staff. We will look into each and every report and if given sufficient reason will take appropriate action when needed. If you can't see we are here working with the community then perhaps you should go. I don't want that, I don't ask that, it would be better if eveyone went away feeling like justice was done. That's why I ask you to keep it civil, continue to look into whatever you think we need to and bring it to our attention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jor3llBR/Elano Posted July 24, 2010 Author Share Posted July 24, 2010 (edited) JorelleBR, We appreciate you bringing facts to our attention, but please stop bashing hwbot staff. We will look into each and every report and if given sufficient reason will take appropriate action when needed. If you can't see we are here working with the community then perhaps you should go. I don't want that, I don't ask that, it would be better if everyone went away feeling like justice was done. That's why I ask you to keep it civil, continue to look into whatever you think we need to and bring it to our attention. Maxi please don't take any of my words personally or represent them as bashing anyone, that's really not on my nature if you meet me in person you would see what I'm talking about. Sure internet and plain words on the screen make them look worse. What I felt was that 'knopfe' was jumping too soon into conclusions and that really put me a little of to the defensive because as a mod you have to moderate and never take sides... I am a HWbot supporter as you can see on my profile and I wouldn't be here if I didn't believe on the crew. Again I'm not 'bashing' the staff I just think sometimes I'm not heard in here you know. When you have zero sponsors and you get to top 12 in the world with 4 or 6 cpu's all your life and you buy them like any other John Doe on eBay and you feel you are not heard can you imagine if you're top 205670 guy out there? So it's just some small things. Edited July 24, 2010 by Jor3llBR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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