bazx Posted January 31, 2008 Author Share Posted January 31, 2008 Today's top benchmark scores. 3Dmark 2006 - 24837 marks - CapFTP (Tecnocomputer.it) - [#1 in 3Dmark 2006 with a single graphic card] - (Radeon HD 3870 X2 @ 930/1080mhz [#1 Radeon HD 3870 X2 in 3Dmark 2006] ) 102.7 points - [ inspect ] - [ compare ] 3Dmark 2005 - 34481 marks - CapFTP (Tecnocomputer.it) - [#1 in 3Dmark 2005 with a single graphic card] - (Radeon HD 3870 X2 @ 931/1080mhz [#1 Radeon HD 3870 X2 in 3Dmark 2005] ) 98.2 points - [ inspect ] - [ compare ] 3Dmark 2003 - 78022 marks - CapFTP (Tecnocomputer.it) - [#1 in 3Dmark 2003 with a single graphic card] - (Radeon HD 3870 X2 @ 931/1080mhz [#1 Radeon HD 3870 X2 in 3Dmark 2003] ) 95.2 points - [ inspect ] - [ compare ] 3Dmark 2006 - 23587 marks - jimmyz (XtremeSystems) - [#2 in 3Dmark 2006 with a single graphic card] - (Radeon HD 3870 X2 @ 900/1060mhz [#2 Radeon HD 3870 X2 in 3Dmark 2006] ) 82.1 points - [ inspect ] - [ compare ] 3Dmark 2003 - 76450 marks - pro (i4memory.com) - [#2 in 3Dmark 2003 with a single graphic card] - (Radeon HD 3870 X2 @ 918/1098mhz [#2 Radeon HD 3870 X2 in 3Dmark 2003] ) 76.2 points - [ inspect ] - [ compare ] 3Dmark 2006 - 23392 marks - eleven (OutOfSpecs.Gr) - [#3 in 3Dmark 2006 with a single graphic card] - (Radeon HD 3870 X2 @ 855/955mhz [#3 Radeon HD 3870 X2 in 3Dmark 2006] ) 71.9 points - [ inspect ] - [ compare ] 3Dmark 2006 - 23121 marks - pro (i4memory.com) - [#4 in 3Dmark 2006 with a single graphic card] - (Radeon HD 3870 X2 @ 918/1098mhz [#4 Radeon HD 3870 X2 in 3Dmark 2006] ) 66.6 points - [ inspect ] - [ compare ] 3Dmark 2005 - 33132 marks - eleven (OutOfSpecs.Gr) - [#4 in 3Dmark 2005 with a single graphic card] - (Radeon HD 3870 X2 @ 855/955mhz [#2 Radeon HD 3870 X2 in 3Dmark 2005] ) 64.3 points - [ inspect ] - [ compare ] 3Dmark 2003 - 74568 marks - jimmyz (XtremeSystems) - [#4 in 3Dmark 2003 with a single graphic card] - (Radeon HD 3870 X2 @ 900/1060mhz [#4 Radeon HD 3870 X2 in 3Dmark 2003] ) 61.6 points - [ inspect ] - [ compare ] 3Dmark 2006 - 22971 marks - Pt1t (OverCleX) - (Radeon HD 3870 X2 @ 918/1062mhz [#5 Radeon HD 3870 X2 in 3Dmark 2006] ) 57.7 points - [ inspect ] - [ compare ] how can all of these scores be single card when there are 2x GPU it is wrong these cards should not be in the single GPU rankings it just does not work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1ch Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 how can all of these scores be single card when there are 2x GPU it is wrong these cards should not be in the single GPU rankings it just does not work Baz, they're in the single card rankings...which at the moment is how it's differentiated. The way of changing this is for the good folk here responsible for hwbot to be talked round into changing the system to differentiate by GPUs and not cards or sockets. I know it's not a democracy here, and we're in massman and rich's hands, but I personally think this should go down to a vote. Categorising system based on: - Cards (i.e 8800GTX in same category as HD3870X2) or - GPUs (i.e HD3870X2 in same category as SLI 8800GT) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massman Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 A poll might not a stupid idea, I'll work on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF3D Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Sometimes picture is better than thousand words. 1GPU / 2GPU = single cards 1 Core/ 4 Core = Single processors Let's stop this nonsense now. Categories based on sockets is much better solution at the moment. Simple is sometimes better! That's my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o polonos Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 One PCB = single card to me If im gonna buy 3870x2 im gonna buy ONE card NOT TWO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predator Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 My 2 cents i understand "frustration" of some users as Bazx, it's "unfair" seeing all your effort with LN2 and vmodded cards seen slaughtered by multiple core vgas, but this is the way it is i guess, it's not only reltaed to a component if it has more than one core in it, every new generation wipes out the former ones, we cannot fight against the Moore laws here i see the X2 as a single card, ATI had a good call implementing two cores in one PCB, the card itself is not as expensive as others and right now it's the most powerful card in the market and don't forget this happened yet before, 7950GX2 had even 2 PCBs and it was ranked in single card category, the same goes for multiple cores CPUs, you can not compete in 3D06 with dual cores or in wprime against 4 or more cores CPUs, yet it has never been spliited in different categories my suggestion would be to redefine the algorithm and put more value in hardware rankings, assorting hwboints in order not to loose a lot of points for example in 2900XTs single or 8800 as soon as a new card hits the market and blows the scores off saludos! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacha35 Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Ok Guys if this is how you feel just wait until the new Intel Skultrail hits the market, i hope we can keep this as a single motherboard then as it will wipe the floor with any single CPU'd motherboard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF3D Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Ok Guys if this is how you feel just wait until the new Intel Skultrail hits the market, i hope we can keep this as a single motherboard then as it will wipe the floor with any single CPU'd motherboard. Skulltrail doesn't change anything. For example 3DM06 can use only 4 cores. If you have eight or sixteen, only four of them are doing job. It will be single motherboard and basic system with huge computing power in multithreated tasks. No worries about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacha35 Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Skulltrail doesn't change anything. For example 3DM06 can use only 4 cores. If you have eight or sixteen, only four of them are doing job. It will be single motherboard and basic system with huge computing power in multithreated tasks. No worries about that. This is what i am saying, all the multithreated tasks benchmarks will go to the Skulltrail, so as long as we are happy with a dule GPU being a single card then we should be happy with an 2 x 4 cores on one motherboard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demiurg Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 3D03: rankings below It is the same situation as with 8800GTX 1,5 year ago or with 7950GX2 2 уеаrs ago. Then G100/R700 will appear it will beat all "2GPUs"-card So I think there is no need to change rahkings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1ch Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 One PCB = single card to me If im gonna buy 3870x2 im gonna buy ONE card NOT TWO So what about the 9800GX2 and 7950GX2 that has 2 PCB's? Do they go in a different section? It is a little ambiguous. As i've said multiple times before and not been challenged, I think it should be categorised by the number of GPUs. Obviously that means a lot of work for rich, and i understand if he would rather just ignore this and keep things as they are. I think it is a little unfair to have 3870X2 vs single gpu...and it's not like 'new tech vs old' because that would be like 8800 vs 7900 which deservedly gets beaten as it's a new architecture. This isn't new. # of GPU's, or state your intentions and close the thread IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF3D Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 How it is unfair to have 3870X2? They are available to everyone who want to have them. When you can have two 3870X2 on same setup it will be Dual Card setup and there is own multiple card section for it. No changes are really needed. I don't feel bad, if my previous scores are beaten badly by new cards. It is part of this game. We all just have to accept that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nazar Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 If 7950GX2 was at single category, it is no doubt 3870X2 should remain as a single card. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1ch Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 How it is unfair to have 3870X2? They are available to everyone who want to have them. When you can have two 3870X2 on same setup it will be Dual Card setup and there is own multiple card section for it. No changes are really needed. I don't feel bad, if my previous scores are beaten badly by new cards. It is part of this game. We all just have to accept that. I never said it was unfair to have one, you need the whole sentence to get the context of my point. I said it was unfair to have it vs a single gpu card. That's all I, and I think baz, sacha and everyone else is saying. Massman, if we can get that poll, I'm happy to go with the general concensus as long as the post that contains the polls makes it very clear what the differential is. Thanks for all the constructive comments everyone If 7950GX2 was at single category, it is no doubt 3870X2 should remain as a single card. There is a well-known saying..."To cut off your nose to spite your face". There's no point repeating a decision from the past just because you made a (potentially wrong) decision in the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massman Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 r1ch;15440']Massman' date=' if we can get that poll, I'm happy to go with the general concensus as long as the post that contains the polls makes it very clear what the differential is. [/quote'] The poll should represent most of the HWBot community, so 2/3 should vote and in order to change things, I believe it's necessary to have 2/3 of the voters say yes on the change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF3D Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 r1ch;15440']I never said it was unfair to have one' date=' you need the whole sentence to get the context of my point. I said it was unfair to have it [b']vs a single gpu card[/b]. That's all I, and I think baz, sacha and everyone else is saying. Single card is a single card. No matter how many gpu's are under the heatsink. Just quit arguing about this. I don't want to sound rude, but this conversation is starting to get stupid. If there is multiple cores in procerssor, why graphics card should be any different. Bench results with 2 x 3870X2 will go to SLI/CF section. That's the way it will be. I have nothing more to say! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazx Posted February 2, 2008 Author Share Posted February 2, 2008 then we will have to play the game your way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1ch Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 Single card is a single card. No matter how many gpu's are under the heatsink. Just quit arguing about this. Arguing is probably the wrong word - I'm promoting the discussion of the topic. It's something that needs to be discussed as there's a number of people with the same opinion. I'm not trying to say a single card isn't a single card...that's like trying to say 2 + 2 =/= 4. I'm disagreeing with the use of the term 'card' as a category. I'm allowed to disagree. If the choice (by hwbot, by you, by vote or whatever) is continue with the current way I will respect that decision and this debate will be over. From what others (Massman) are saying though, I don't think this debate is over, and I welcome that vote - obviously it would need to be advertised to attract attention (hwbot front page?). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massman Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 I don't have anything against a vote, but I don't think we need to make this bigger than it is. I have asked some MSN-contacts what their opinion is and it seems that most see this as single card and have no problem with it being dealed with as single card. Don't get me wrong, if really necessary, I'll create a poll and see what the outcome is, but I don't know if it's necessary to take this frontpage news? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1ch Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 I don't have anything against a vote, but I don't think we need to make this bigger than it is. I have asked some MSN-contacts what their opinion is and it seems that most see this as single card and have no problem with it being dealed with as single card. Don't get me wrong, if really necessary, I'll create a poll and see what the outcome is, but I don't know if it's necessary to take this frontpage news? Front page news was a suggestion in order to draw in the number of people (2/3 of members) that you were requiring to get a good idea of their opinions, obviously this is completely your choice. I think that vote might be a good idea anyway, just out of curiosity. If the decision is to leave things how they stand then fair enough. Obviously a decision i don't agree with, but hey, that's life! Keep up the good work Massman and co. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nordling Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 single! It is a single card that uses one socket, so it should be treated like one. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ncsa Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 Single Card, Single Slot .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K404 Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 Old technology, no improvement in any part of it. Doubled up to perform like CF, using Crossfire onboard. Without Crossfire, that card wouldnt be performing how it is. If it was new architecture that performed like that, I wouldnt mind at all. Even if it was a native dual-core in one die. Thats why I voted the way I did K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maverik-sg1 Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 I have watched this post with interest as it is an interesting debate with good discussion points on both sides. I have to say that the only way 2gpu's should ever be considered single performance is if they were on one die (dual core but single GPU) and if there were two of them then it would be SLI or multi gpu - as this would be a evolutional path of GPU's in the same way as dual/quad core cpus have progressed. To me its simple: The HWBOT system should be based on the number of GPU's, not how many slots are used. OR The current technologies found in x2 and GX2 graphics cards are all multi GPU solutions with a SLI/Crossfire chipset installed (not built into the GPU's) - therefore, at best (given that they still have to split x16 PCI-E Slot into two 8x slots which may be hit performance) they should be considered as 'hybrid' SLI/Crossfire set-ups. Slightly off topic - looking at the scores the new generation of X2 and GX2 GPU's bring, all the hype around how important it was to go from x8 to x16 PCI-E for bandwidth issues was a total crock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1ch Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 Old technology, no improvement in any part of it. Doubled up to perform like CF, using Crossfire onboard. Without Crossfire, that card wouldnt be performing how it is. If it was new architecture that performed like that, I wouldnt mind at all. Even if it was a native dual-core in one die. Thats why I voted the way I did K QFT IMO. 100% Agree K404. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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