FUGGER Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Calling spades the probe location still, my block mass takes a ~20c hit loaded even with LN2 unless the probe is not located on the block. In the block is the wrong answer, it needs to go on the face of the block or the IHS for proper measurement and use with controller. Humor me with one test ok? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lnlcooling Posted February 2, 2016 Author Share Posted February 2, 2016 It appears you are using my block, I bet you are feeding LN2 in the suction port. http://under-the-ice.com/product_info.php?cPath=25&products_id=126 I built pressure fed LN2 setups a decade ago, I used them in exhibitions with lots of media coverage. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/06/15/AR2007061501296.html My Kryotek has an Omega controller, also precise to 2c unloaded. Even with AS, you should not have ~120C temp delta. No complaints in your mounting, that should be fine since it is based on my retention design. I know Kal El, had dinner with him and his wife, met his family and been to his house in Hawaii, been to his parents house, hung out with his dad, checked out his awesome collections, and that doesn't make one bit of difference. Ask Kal El about me. I don't really know Splave, I am not sure he even exists. "1 XTU out of 12 in two sessions is not bad. That's during about twelve hours of chilling." From your screens you have really good chip based on vcore @ 5Ghz so are battling a lack of capacity as you breach 5Ghz Thanks. Stoked to know my chip's potential. Really, if you just take a minute to watch the video i just posted you would likely see the reason is the Bios settings I used. There's a legend below the video to different section's times. I didn't make any of the voltages static other than the Vcore and CPU input. Looking to bench again on Wednesday with better settings and some decent paste. Man it might be a smart thing to not judge a book by its cover. Your block is completely different, other than it being a cylinder and copper. Nice thought on the heat transfer and surface space with multiple full fins bottom to top, but that would not work with the OCC. Also the two-part thing wouldn't work either. Also the mass of the OCC is likely 2x more. And the OCC-HC (the one in the video) does not use only cold (LN2) to control temp but internal heaters to heat and internal thermalcouples to monitor what is going on. The controller we use is very highly refined for controlled cold (both heat and LN2). Our heat/cooling system is also UL certified. The OCC is precise to 2 degrees fully loaded so far! Watch the HWBOT Prime 2 minute benchmark at the end of the above video. You can watch the temp swing in the upper part of the OCC software window. Delta loaded is 1 degree under 3 minute (+/- can't remember) HWBOT Prime Benchmark. Please don't try to imply that you have developed our machine in any way other than being part of the community of overclockers who showed me the need and inspired me to begin designing it a couple years ago. Please know however that I have seen your builds and I am, as I was when we first chatted, very impressed. I especially like the LN2 assisted triple stage cascade unit. That's impressive and must have cost a fortune in blood sweat and tears. I have also seen that you travel to compete and I totally respect that. Maybe we'll see one another on the road one day :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lnlcooling Posted February 2, 2016 Author Share Posted February 2, 2016 Splave is ranked number 1 on your team - XtremeSystems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FUGGER Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Dimensions and retention is identical to my block, my blocks are the only ones for sale. Cost wise it make sense. I did not develop your system at all, I am not seeking to glom any credit for your work. I take no joy in your unit working sub par, work it out and take advice from those with experience. Stay humble, if you want to proof this thing correctly you need to get past the self imposed non disclosure and answer correctly as you have potential customers here. Let me assure you that there is no big money in this, I gave it all away to educate others and the end result was to involve as many as possible to overclocking. I was able to hopefully show better ways to build in the end and build my site the best repository of information on this topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lnlcooling Posted February 2, 2016 Author Share Posted February 2, 2016 (edited) Sorry. Your claims are unfounded because you are assuming that my cooling head is the same as yours and don't realize it isn't. If you saw inside the head you would be shocked at the difference. Retention ring hold-downs are nothing new and widely used in nearly all mechanical industries. In fact I just fixed my wife's windshield wipers and there was a retention ring hold down on that mount. The measurements of CPU HS dimensions and HS mounts are widely available online so the design of our new hold-down was easy to engineer and not a result of buying your block and copying as you have implied. That would have actually cost more. We wanted to make the OCC better useable for open bench users so our old 3 part swivel hold and thermal isolator was replaced by the fully insulated new 1 part rev. It is my inclination to post a pic of the inside of my cooling head but my partners, an engineer and a MBA would have heart attacks and take revenge. If you want to discuss disclosure of my block design further, I am happy to share it with you for free so please PM me and there are proper ways to discuss it. If not, wait for the Non-Provisional Patent to issue and you are free as is the world to view the drawings. I furthermore, don't understand how you can say reasonably that there is some sort of massive temp swing that is not actually there. I will be posting hwbot scores tomorrow evening with better settings on my voltages. I am really stoked I have a good chip and look forward to showing how well the OCC keeps it under temp control. To humor you I will say that the temp probes are MUCH closer to the surface of the chip than any pot design I have seen out there. They are incorporated into the head and comm directly with the controller. This method is industry proven for accurate surface temp readings and is used widely in RF and Aerospace component testing. I have been surprised because of its proven accuracy that it has not been used in computer cooling. Maybe as you say there is no money in it and I understand that. But success is relative - I for instance would be proud just to introduce something that makes extreme cooling easier for all and more readily available. Please just PM me if you'd like to discuss it further, I'd be happy to spend time answering your questions to the best of my ability. I take no offense to your steering of this thread, but I would appreciate it if you would be courteous and allow the followers and contributors to have their fair share and let their interests also be satisfied. Edited February 2, 2016 by lnlcooling couple mispellings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strong Island Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 I guess what I was really meaning to say is, with such a cool product I would only want the best tester possible who knows a lot about this stuff releasing results and posts. By no means was I saying you suck at oc, I still lose my mount all the time, I guess I meant that when unveiling something to the world you should put it in the best light possible and not give anyone a reason to be a little skeptical. I don't know I think I'm confusing myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lnlcooling Posted February 2, 2016 Author Share Posted February 2, 2016 I guess what I was really meaning to say is, with such a cool product I would only want the best tester possible who knows a lot about this stuff releasing results and posts. By no means was I saying you suck at oc, I still lose my mount all the time, I guess I meant that when unveiling something to the world you should put it in the best light possible and not give anyone a reason to be a little skeptical. I don't know I think I'm confusing myself. thanks so much man. I will PM you my number. Lets talk. Maybe you'd like to run it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FUGGER Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 (edited) Careful with the wild claims, we notch the IHS and or attach to the IHS so there is no way you are MUCH closer. Any doubts ask an expert here, we are not as think as you dumb we are. This is not the aerospace industry but I have been using controllers/valves for many years in overclocking for the accuracy and control of coolant flow. http://hwbot.org/image/1335585.jpg Your >120c temp delta is real between the block and core. You are not measuring core or IHS temp. I happened to find a measurement from a bench you ran that you overlooked proving that you are thermally maxed out at 5Ghz and the excessive temp delta (you are welcome). TIM will get you more Mhz and time will show us how much or little capacity your unit has in its current configuration. I know you can fix it. I already told you that my block design is free to use and this includes the retention method. You did not design my block or retention. I understand you do not want to give anyone else credit to the source of anything as you are revolutionary and pioneering what I did 10+ years ago. Most likely due to patents filed and any question of using work of others. Do you want to see my purge case I build from scratch in 2008? I did not use a PC case and duct tape, I did not claim "no ice" like you as your pictures show the purge line completely covered in ice all the way back to the valve, as well as ice forming all over the case. I am sure it can be corrected with insulation on both feed line and exterior of case. Going back to being honest on your products features and not making unfounded claims where your own images prove you wrong. Accuracy to your claims is important or it makes you look like a liar or trying to BS us. No need to PM, I would rather be transparent. ESS makes some killer stuff Edited February 3, 2016 by FUGGER Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FUGGER Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 When you get the RIVE, there is a hole under the CPU to attach a probe. When you use the new TIM, spread an thin even layer across the IHS. Auto setting work great on the RIVE so all you need to set is multiple, vcore, and input (past 5.5Ghz). A rough guide to voltage scaling. @ -120c 5Ghz ~ 1.5vcore, 5.5Ghz 1.7vcore, 5.7ghz 1.8vcore 2v input (try higher input) Use XTU and watch for core temp to becoming visible on the graph (also use probe) but its in milliseconds so it might be hard to see on meter. To get the VID value from your chip, reset bios to default and set multiple to 35x, reboot, go back into bios and note the core voltage that is set automatically. Here is batch and VID info http://forum.hwbot.org/showthread.php?t=112569 The lower the VID the better the chip, under 1v is good, under .9v is excellent If you need me to take a trip out to Soulsbyville, we can schedule a date. I can bring 6Ghz chips and boards. We will sign NDA's to protect us both. Brain, (I think is your name) you are being offered the help to dial in quickly from an expert in this field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techjesse Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 WoW! Now that's an invitation! YEAH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lnlcooling Posted February 3, 2016 Author Share Posted February 3, 2016 Fugger thanks for all your help. I'll let the results speak for themselves. I'm a little shook up from all the negativity right now. It sounds like a nice offer to have you come out, but as you are already convinced of the non workingness of the OCC, I don't know how helpful you might be, or if I trust you. How do I know you wouldn't benefit from the OCCs perceived failure? Are you a ULT manufacturer? Even part time. Be really transparent. Are you close friends with any manufacturers? Those links are to your equipment as you said. Right? Do you benefit in any way when someone buys one or when the product looks better or gets press? Think about it, if the TIM was lost the OCC would be reading its own temp not the surface of the CPU. There would be no heat transfer. Fairly simple right. Interesting thing is I that -2 was my last benchmark of the night and the only one out of many that there was a temp swing. Yeah maybe the paste failed. Thank you for all of the advice. Thank you for your offer for help, but for the present, I'll stick with the people I have recently become friends amd colleagues with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lnlcooling Posted February 22, 2016 Author Share Posted February 22, 2016 Well the new board made a big difference. Picked up a new RVE... how fun! But now I see that my power supply can't keep up with the voltage. Currently using 850 watt Thermaltake. Did 5630 mhz on 8 cores but think found the bottle neck of the 850w PSU and wasn't able to go much further. OCC chilled like a king though. http://hwbot.org/submission/3135682_ We'll pick up a 1300-1500w PSU in a week (any suggestions?) and really see what this chip can do. But we should have some good OCC chilled results up from our colleagues before then! . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug2507 Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 Thats not a psu limit, thats the limit of your chip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lnlcooling Posted February 22, 2016 Author Share Posted February 22, 2016 Thats not a psu limit, thats the limit of your chip. Hmmm. Can you explain a little? I was told that when you're able to boot past win splash that it's usually just a voltage issue. I was able to get there several times with lockups and bsod at 5.7/5.8. I was hoping it was a voltage issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug2507 Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 You're already at 1.7v for that sub. That's pretty much the limit for 5960x. Change that 390x out for a 620 gt or something and run gen 1. You won't be loading the psu past its capabilities with just a boot into win. Try running a bench that puts load and heat on the cpu, Cb15@1.65v. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lnlcooling Posted February 22, 2016 Author Share Posted February 22, 2016 You're already at 1.7v for that sub. That's pretty much the limit for 5960x. Change that 390x out for a 620 gt or something and run gen 1. You won't be loading the psu past its capabilities with just a boot into win. Try running a bench that puts load and heat on the cpu, Cb15@1.65v. Will do. Thanks for the suggestions! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxbassplayerxx Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 Also, keep in mind that if you're going for max frequency, it doesn't have to be boot stable. You can boot in at like 5.5GHz and then raise the frequency once in Windows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lnlcooling Posted February 22, 2016 Author Share Posted February 22, 2016 Also, keep in mind that if you're going for max frequency, it doesn't have to be boot stable. You can boot in at like 5.5GHz and then raise the frequency once in Windows. Thanks! What program other than xtu can I raise frequency? The sliders have been greyed out and xtu has been requiring a reboot to make any changes. This never happened with the asrock board. I can't find teh rog AI software either, even though I've installed it twice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunslinger Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 Thanks! What program other than xtu can I raise frequency? The sliders have been greyed out and xtu has been requiring a reboot to make any changes. This never happened with the asrock board. I can't find teh rog AI software either, even though I've installed it twice. You can use the OC Panel that came with the motherboard or you can use Asus turbovcore software. Everything you need is in this thread: https://www.kingpincooling.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2846 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lnlcooling Posted February 22, 2016 Author Share Posted February 22, 2016 You can use the OC Panel that came with the motherboard or you can use Asus turbovcore software. Everything you need is in this thread: https://www.kingpincooling.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2846 Awesome. I'll install it right off the download and give it a freeze tonight! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunslinger Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 Awesome. I'll install it right off the download and give it a freeze tonight! If you opt for the OC Panel (which is awesome) you'll need to install ROG Connect or ROG Connect plus, can't remember which one. :celebration: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxbassplayerxx Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 ROG Connect is awesome. Does the RVE not have buttons? Just relies on the OC Panel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunslinger Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 No buttons on the board, just the OC Panel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lnlcooling Posted February 22, 2016 Author Share Posted February 22, 2016 It has both! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lnlcooling Posted February 22, 2016 Author Share Posted February 22, 2016 ROG Connect is awesome. Does the RVE not have buttons? Just relies on the OC Panel? I don't think it has level up buttons, but the OC panel has a bunch of buttons... Wow I feel like an old guy trying to figure out how to use a VCR. Here's a pic of the RVE Buttons http://images.anandtech.com/doci/9278/ASUS%20X99%20RVE%20-%20OC.png Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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