Xtreme Addict Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 (edited) Yap, easy as this. How to fix rankings, especially with current "funny" hw situation. BAN ES CPUs (or limit them just to PR use in the lauinch), all of them. Ban all Xeons and server stuff with WR points which no one cares about. What is more important: BAN ALL cpus beyond 1000 USD newegg price, and all GPUs beyound 1000$ if they are non ref cards. For ref "Titans" and other ref "crap" leave 700 USD gap. And let's observe. It will fix situation where 743 XTU "bug" score (sorry coolhand, zeroplus) is much more popular and even appreciated than all Vince's, Racoon's or Daniel's Titan XP results which no one gives a bunny, cause basically they are only 3x guys who bothered to buy that piece of junk. Best regards, Michał, who always gives "easy" solutions for big problems ^ ^ Edited September 7, 2016 by Xtreme Addict Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolhand411 Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 (edited) very good post and I'm glad you brought this to attention ,this is probably one thing that can save this hobby Thanks P.S. separating Elite from the rest could also be debatable Edited September 6, 2016 by coolhand411 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtsurfer Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 Let's also ban ES mems so people don't have to spend $1000s of dollars binning retail, only to find inferior hardware. Everyone likes this, right.? Right......? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xtreme Addict Posted September 6, 2016 Author Share Posted September 6, 2016 (edited) ES hw is questionable, tbh I think it spoils fun, but vendors need they PR, so maybe some solution that ES results are allowed for 1-2 months from the launch and than will vanish from database? Regarding memories sometimes it's hard to distinguish ES from retail. Most CPUs have ES in CPU-Z (not all though). Still ES is questionable cause in most generations, retails are better. But PRICE retail gap is the most urgent problem now. Who seriously cares about ocing overpriced junk? If you don't agree with me, how you can call current hw generations in other, more gentle, civilized ways? Edited September 6, 2016 by Xtreme Addict Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtsurfer Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 Is it too much to ask for mem vendors to not use retail SPD..? Maybe some overclocker who is a lawyer can sue them for false advertising or something. Knock some sense into them. As for the other ES stuff, I agree with you. But i don't Hwbot will. Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crew gavbon Posted September 6, 2016 Crew Share Posted September 6, 2016 ES stuff should be banned from rankings on the premise that it's stuff that the regular overclocker/general user cannot get their hands on. Yes it's good for company PR (I know this), but getting world records on hardware that isn't even retail means what exactly? Nothing! I agree with you Michael in some respects, but as long as HWBot is funded and sponsored by the top companies, it isn't going to happen. It's the vacuum you get sucked into when you take on sponsors, take on advertisers, take on support etc. The moment you defy the sponsor, you lose their support and some just aren't willing to do that - That goes throughout the industry itself including other business models. That being said, I don't think that's HWBots fault at the end of the day, but there certainly needs to be a distinguishing factor between those using ES samples/cherry picked samples provided by companies for PR and the regular retail hardware; no-one can fairly compete unless you have a huge bank account to compensate it. Also sandbagging is dirty as they come; I think you should always submit the best score you have to keep things competitive. Nothing worse than breaking a record to find out 10 minutes later you have been sandbagged from 3 months ago...(have seen other people go through that and it's near heart breaking for them) So what's HWBot going to do here Michael, or what do you expect them to do? They won't piss off sponsors and they certainly won't change things that could "hurt" the top ranked guys...Why would they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casanova Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 Subbed to this post, will be watching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolhand411 Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 @gavbon.. you can separate Elite which is sponsored or have sponsored HW only under one roof Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
der8auer Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 To ban one product doesn't mean that it will result in an increased interested in the other product. The interest in 3D OC is low and it has been low before TitanXP. If you ban e.g. 6950X, do you think more people will enjoy benching 6900K. Especially studying politics you should know that simple solutions for complex problems are usually not working. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casanova Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 I agree with you Michael in some respects, but as long as HWBot is funded and sponsored by the top companies, it isn't going to happen. It's the vacuum you get sucked into when you take on sponsors, take on advertisers, take on support etc. The moment you defy the sponsor, you lose their support and some just aren't willing to do that - That goes throughout the industry itself including other business models. If the Hwbot staff is keeping ES and other unfair methods just because they need the sponsors... them they are dummies imo, just because there is no competition on CPU industry anymore, Intel all the way in man! Nvidia the same thing, unless we start to think about subvendors competition, but that's another history... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan_Alberino Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 (edited) It sounds great, but the reality is that even banning ES, there are people that bins LOTS of retail CPUs and anyway they will be in better conditions than a average user, so they would still be a big disadvantage. About XTU, we had a discussion about that some months ago here in the forums about locked CPUs XTU and you defended it to death, and now you want to take them out cause they give lot of globals, so what's your idea? Leave them or kill them? I think XTU points should be limited for unlocked multiplier CPUs, on locked Skylakes CPUs is just average B-Die, a Asrock OCF/MOCF and go, I have 35 hardware points for a i3-6100 XTU submission that I replicated lot of times, nothing hard to get... I think that 35 hardware points for a score without even tweaking is ridiculous. 2D WR Points should also die, they are just brute force points on servers that a very very limited amount of people has access to, they don't have to much relate to overclocking that it's what HWBOT is about... About +1000 USD hardware, I said in other thread to have a +750 USD global category, and -750 USD global category, +750 USD category would have a little amount of users so it won't give that much points, and -750 USD would give same points than Titan XP now. Edited September 6, 2016 by Alan_Alberino Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeropluszero Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 Yap, easy as this. Lol they are only 3x guys who bothered to buy that piece of junk. Lol "buy" Let's also ban ES mems so people don't have to spend $1000s of dollars binning retail, only to find inferior hardware.Everyone likes this, right.? Right......? Savage burn ES hw is questionable, tbh I think it spoils fun, but vendors need they PR, so maybe some solution that ES results are allowed for 1-2 months from the launch and than will vanish from database Already backpeddling To ban one product doesn't mean that it will result in an increased interested in the other product. The interest in 3D OC is low and it has been low before TitanXP. If you ban e.g. 6950X, do you think more people will enjoy benching 6900K. Especially studying politics you should know that simple solutions for complex problems are usually not working. Roman, can you rename your account to "Voice of reason"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xtreme Addict Posted September 7, 2016 Author Share Posted September 7, 2016 (edited) ES stuff should be banned from rankings on the premise that it's stuff that the regular overclocker/general user cannot get their hands on. Yes it's good for company PR (I know this), but getting world records on hardware that isn't even retail means what exactly? Nothing! I agree with you Michael in some respects, but as long as HWBot is funded and sponsored by the top companies, it isn't going to happen. It's the vacuum you get sucked into when you take on sponsors, take on advertisers, take on support etc. The moment you defy the sponsor, you lose their support and some just aren't willing to do that - That goes throughout the industry itself including other business models. That being said, I don't think that's HWBots fault at the end of the day, but there certainly needs to be a distinguishing factor between those using ES samples/cherry picked samples provided by companies for PR and the regular retail hardware; no-one can fairly compete unless you have a huge bank account to compensate it. Also sandbagging is dirty as they come; I think you should always submit the best score you have to keep things competitive. Nothing worse than breaking a record to find out 10 minutes later you have been sandbagged from 3 months ago...(have seen other people go through that and it's near heart breaking for them) So what's HWBot going to do here Michael, or what do you expect them to do? They won't piss off sponsors and they certainly won't change things that could "hurt" the top ranked guys...Why would they? Well I am one of the top ranked guys and sorry, but current situation is simply so wrong, I don't remember as bad period in XOC community/society as now. Why? XOC online contests are dead/almost dead, XOC live events/qualifiers are dead. I didn't bother about rankings too much, even @Massman stated in his topic regarding Daniel's great skills that I am not that active in rankings. I focused on events/contests, which are dead. Okay, but now even rankings are dead because hw is too expensive. To ban one product doesn't mean that it will result in an increased interested in the other product. The interest in 3D OC is low and it has been low before TitanXP. If you ban e.g. 6950X, do you think more people will enjoy benching 6900K. Especially studying politics you should know that simple solutions for complex problems are usually not working. Who is talking about banning one product? Banning all the products which are out of spec (in this case price range, cause most ocers are buying HW privately). We have seen such things many times in sports, Age cap, KG cap, drugs cap and so on. Why not hwbot? And regarding your question, nope I don't think more people will enjoy benching 6900K cause 5960X on LN2 is just faster ^^ And yes, in such cases, easy solutions are better. More drastic but easier. And if you are referring to my political studies, easy example - Israel, if someone is suspected about terrorism, he and all his family and neighbours are deported from the country. Easy? Yes. Brutal? Sadly yes. Efficiency - good, less terrorist attacks than in Europe mostly sadly thanks to Germany and great refugee strategy to make EU society mindless and more easy to push. Comparing to politics, cultural, world economics factors, yes I think solution to fix HWBOT is easy. I don't think that Taiwan will try to conquer Europe because removing few expensive pieces of hw from rankings ^^ Edited September 7, 2016 by Xtreme Addict Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolhand411 Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 ^^^ too funny ,haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xtreme Addict Posted September 7, 2016 Author Share Posted September 7, 2016 (edited) Lol Lol "buy" Savage burn Already backpeddling Roman, can you rename your account to "Voice of reason"? Yes you can laugh, but if you want to pay current HW prizes, sure, you can support current model and you can join love camp with "Voice of reason" ^^ I am not backpeddling, ES were for years many problems, but mostly retails are better (not always). Currently we have different problems - HW is too expensive and it's even more serious than ES problem. Considering vendors are HWBOT sponsors, some ES - compromise, cooperation is possible to conduct. If we enable ES for 1-2 months [which normal users can't buy (unless some rejects appear on ebay) or get from Intel/mobo vendors], than if points are disabled/removed/scores vanished after those 2 moths there is win-win situation. Vendors had their PR, private ocers can OC (especially after better hw availability from the launch) without having thoughts that they can't beat ES. Edited September 7, 2016 by Xtreme Addict Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeropluszero Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 Lol no one wants to pay current hw prices, but they do anyway. Cant blame capitalism if it works right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xtreme Addict Posted September 7, 2016 Author Share Posted September 7, 2016 Lol no one wants to pay current hw prices, but they do anyway.Cant blame capitalism if it works right? Haha my point is not to win with capitalism. If gamers want to pay such prices - it's their choice. But on HWBOT we don't have to follow brainwashed pattern. If we do $ limitations, than we can just OC cheaper hardware. Instead of 6950X still 5960X or some platinum 6900K (not sure, I haven't tried it), instead Titan XP available only from NV store with high prices - 1080 GTX non refs/980 TI. I don't see in that nothing bad at all to be honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeropluszero Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 We created the cheapas chips competition and I didnt see you participating, I see you head to head with Daniel for elite first place. elite, like you're a sponsored overclocker. sponsored, like you're not paying for your hardware what on earth are you going on about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casanova Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 Haha my point is not to win with capitalism. If gamers want to pay such prices - it's their choice. But on HWBOT we don't have to follow brainwashed pattern. If we do $ limitations, than we can just OC cheaper hardware. Instead of 6950X still 5960X or some platinum 6900K (not sure, I haven't tried it), instead Titan XP available only from NV store with high prices - 1080 GTX non refs/980 TI. I don't see in that nothing bad at all to be honest. You're the voice of reason here XA, thanks a lot for exposing this to the XOC. I said something about this on another thread, but since i'm ust a newbie moch me was more easy to answer... Indeed, my opinion is the same i said before, new hw points should be put of freeze for sometime, like two months or more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dancop Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 It's getting hotter in here... 😠My two cents: hwbot is hwbot, formula 1 is formula 1. Bernie sold it, will it change that much? No... There's Stil a track with some cars on it. Conclusion: nobody has to bench, but we all want. And where if not on hwbot, can we compare results with others? @Massman, Ney and all the other guys aren't doing just for us. I also think, that xtu 2core are some pretty easy 200 points, compared to a 980ti@1.8v kept precisely at 120 degrees. But yeah... That's the game... Coming back to formula 1, when u start a racer career, u need a hell lot of money. I did it in the past, since my parents said, no! U wanna play with the top guys? Go and earn your own money or get supporters. That's what they said... Earning money at the age of 12 was pretty hard tho... So I decided to change my hobby. Gesendet von meinem HUAWEI NXT-L29 mit Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xtreme Addict Posted September 7, 2016 Author Share Posted September 7, 2016 We created the cheapas chips competition and I didnt see you participating, I see you head to head with Daniel for elite first place.elite, like you're a sponsored overclocker. sponsored, like you're not paying for your hardware what on earth are you going on about? Haha you are joking I guess? Did you read a thread or maybe you are so brainwashed with sponsorship or living in milk&honey land called Australia? Why you are comparing cheapass competition to overall ranking? For your information, I didn't participate for it cause I was busy with other competitions, scores and so on and I didn't care to kill GPU with epower for the contest without prizes. Sorry, but apparently I value $. For you living in Australia I guess this card is like 1 package of cigarretes, in Poland you have to actually work on that. Also if you think I am really highly sponsored, believe me, you are wrong. Of course I am getting some samples (and thank to vendors for that) but I am still delivering more than most guys who get in fact more than I am (few extreme guys are more sponsored than I am ^^), but samples are not everything, I am investing much more $ into XOC than I am getting from samples, and even from contests. Do you think those 150+ Skylales I binned during summerbreak grow on the trees? And yes, I am claiming that current HW prizes are fucked up and we should do some limits cause this is just a beginning. Soon we will see 2K USD for highend most likely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeropluszero Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 I dont even know where to start with that. "boo hoo dancop has more money and samples than I do" Australia a land of milk and honey. fantastic. hahaha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dancop Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 Soon we will see 2K USD for highend most likely. That's called inflation Sorry, but this joke has to be written Gesendet von meinem HUAWEI NXT-L29 mit Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xtreme Addict Posted September 7, 2016 Author Share Posted September 7, 2016 (edited) I dont even know where to start with that."boo hoo dancop has more money and samples than I do" Australia a land of milk and honey. fantastic. hahaha If you have too much $ and like current $ prices or you too much HW you can always sponsor me, I will add your logo on my screenshots This is stupid reply on your epicly stupid posts. Seriously I don't understand what problem you have with my person If you like paying high $ for hw and don't want any changes, just say, if you are rich enough and can afford current or higher prizes and everyone will understand. But on the other hand, just ask a question, wouldn't be it nice to pay a bit less? If you have problem that I am doing this thread from selfish reasons (if you think so), than I can't help you, but you can just answer honestly to your self, if I am right or not. Edited September 7, 2016 by Xtreme Addict Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeropluszero Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 (edited) No worries, what is your paypal and postal address? I'm a level 2 service desk guy in the land of milk and honey, I got money to burn which is why I'm #3 on the hwbot rankings below yourself. Edited September 7, 2016 by zeropluszero Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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