Mandatory Systeminfo 5.55 Update and new benchmark rules for RTX40 series

[fatronix]

RTX 4090 ECC enable 3DMARK - SPEED WAY - 9261 https://www.3dmark.com/sw/107645 RTX 4090 ECC disable 3DMARK - SPEED WAY - 9909 https://www.3dmark.com/sw/107672

[Luumi]

Hm that is actually a pretty interesting thing. How is this happening only with 4090 but not with previous generations?

[spit051261]

Can of worms on it's way .

Edited December 13, 2022 by spit051261

[Leeghoofd]

Provide an alternative, don't rely on benchers honesty, we all know it won't work... 

My 2 cents: We need proper build in monitoring tools from UL and have them  automatically invalidate  scores if the FPS jump out of bounce. 

[Splave]

58 minutes ago, Leeghoofd said:

Provide an alternative, don't rely on benchers honesty, we all know it won't work... 

My 2 cents: We need proper build in monitoring tools from UL and have them  automatically invalidate  scores if the FPS jump out of bounce. 

Nailed it 

[Johnksss]

Is this why you invalidated a bunch of my valid ran benchmarks?

[spit051261]

If that is the case , should be lot more on the horizon with invalid scores .

Glad I got rid of the 4090 and I am only benching "legacy" type cards .

Edited December 13, 2022 by spit051261

[Mr. Fox]

Maybe all 4090 GPU submissions should be invalidated until all of the details are worked out and then everyone benching a 4090 can start off with a clean slate and level playing field rather than arbitrary selection of scores based on an individual's impression of the result.

[spit051261]

What happens to people who bought a very expensive card before 23 November 2022 and posted scores ?

Mr.Fox idea not going to make a lot of people happy but if that is what you decide , a clean sweep , I'll go for it.

Can of worms though.

Edited December 15, 2022 by spit051261

[Mr. Fox]

Then nobody can say they're being treated differently, scrutinized through biased eyes or having their scores treated unfairly. I mean, if it is really that important to make a new rule that applies to a new niche product, it would probably  add value to have only clean data as well as not generating additional angst and controversy. If the people with high scores that get wiped out were submitting legit benchmark runs with reliable hardware they can just do it again and resubmit. Not the end of the world, and certainly removes any questions or doubt about fairness and rules applying equitably to all. Until UL fixes 3DMark and updates SystemInfo to determine when ECC is enabled/disabled, nobody gets to submit 3DMark benches. Uncomplicated and fair, and no basis for controversy or an appearance of loose and subjective rule enforcement that varies by user name.

Edited December 15, 2022 by Mr. Fox

[Mr. Fox]

I guess 4090 owners are not the only early adoption casualty. Team Red has their own drama going on now, too.

https://github.com/Mesa3D/mesa/blob/2ed9eb1b633f214ff8900ab3be9e639f87cebaef/src/gallium/drivers/radeonsi/si_state_shaders.cpp#L671

Edited December 15, 2022 by Mr. Fox

[Johnksss]

Then delete all 4090  UL based benchmarks and start over with new rules. Let UL handle their rankings in their own way. For those that borked their cards in the process of these inflated over the top scores will just need to buy another card and try again. LOL

[spit051261]

Yea , we all got thousands to spend on another card ?

Last thing we want to do is put people off benching .

Have to come up with something else rather than just deleting ALL 4090 scores .

I am just a soldier , it is up to the generals ( Alby etc.)

[Johnksss]

4 hours ago, spit051261 said:

Yea , we all got thousands to spend on another card ?

Last thing we want to do is put people off benching .

Have to come up with something else rather than just deleting ALL 4090 scores .

I am just a soldier , it is up to the generals ( Alby etc.)

What are you talking about? This is like the 4th time they got me with hardware I no longer own. Didn't see anyone waving the white flag when I got hit laptop benching. And laptop benching is like 5 to 10 times more expensive! So pony up or except the loses like I and others already have had to do.

[Dr.Antoine]

With my little experience of these 4090, only 3 benchmarks can be strongly improved by unstable memory : PortRoyal, Superposition 1080p and Superposition 4K the others not Perhaps only these 3 benchmarks would merit a requirement to enable ECC and thus remove all current scores and thus allow ECC to be disabled for all other benchmarks. This would make everyone happy I think and would be quite fair for all

[Guest TonyBombassolo]

If we are going to "re-do old scores" I vote that we take the time and start invalidating scores that don't even pass 3dmark muster like LOD/Tess scamming Firestrike scores. If I am really dreaming, I vote we stop allowing old and archaic benchmarks being run on current gen systems period. My thoughts are it should be a hardware OC site not a software OC site where because people who know old ass benchmark nuances from Windows XP era can rack up points on current generation hardware not due to actual hardware being different but simply because they know how to maximize settings to get good scores on old ass benchmarks. Those old benchmarks should still provide points for old hardware but it doesn't seem the same running 4090 cards on 3DMark 2001 SE just because people know how to game the software more than the hardware. Just my two cents and Im sure these comments will rouse some feelings.

[Johnksss]

7 hours ago, Antoine06 said:

With my little experience of these 4090, only 3 benchmarks can be strongly improved by unstable memory : PortRoyal, Superposition 1080p and Superposition 4K the others not Perhaps only these 3 benchmarks would merit a requirement to enable ECC and thus remove all current scores and thus allow ECC to be disabled for all other benchmarks. This would make everyone happy I think and would be quite fair for all

HWbot doesn't have 4K....

 

Side note:

More wasted money! 3090 Nvlink SLI

[spit051261]

Lets have a formula 1 race where we all use the same cars ?

What is the point ?

BTW Legacy is not going anywhere except here , forever ?

Edited December 17, 2022 by spit051261

[Guest TonyBombassolo]

The formula 1 example you used couldnt be worse, in Formula 1 all cars must adhere to specific rules. Its not like in Formula 1 Lewis Hamilton is using an F1 car and Verstappen is using a Subaru Wagon.

[spit051261]

You are saying lets get rid of the fastest cars because I don't understand them and how to make them work ?

Point made I think , have fun and out of here .

 

Edited December 17, 2022 by spit051261

[Guest TonyBombassolo]

Also in a Formula 1 race we all use similarly regulated cars and we are all on the same track. Just because someone knows old software shortcuts that improve hardware scores from 20 years ago shouldn't provide bonus points on current generation hardware that would literally never be used on those old OSes. Who is running Windows XP for anything other than benchmarks in 2022? Why are we testing 2022 hardware and giving points on that hardware for software that won't even utilize it. Having to disable features of your card like Ray tracing to game the benchmarking is just that, software tweaking. Thats not hardware overclocking, thats software maximizing. All these shenanigans do is confuse anyone who wants to get into overclocking in 2022 and beyond. I am of the opinion that we shouldn't have to tweak a 20 year old OS and run a 20 year old benchmark just to rack up a few HWbot points in 2022 and I will continue to lobby for current tech to use current, ungamed tests.

[Guest TonyBombassolo]

I never said "lets get rid of the fastest cars because I don't understand them and how to make them work" and I'd appreciate it if you either quote me or stop making up stuff. I see enough of that elsewhere, and I'd appreciate not having to do deal with it on a site where we literally have to prove what we are submitting. Thanks and god bless.

Edited December 19, 2022 by TonyBombassolo

[Mr. Fox]

No wonder this sport is dying. Going Stasi-psycho-chihuahua because of a few random cheaters because it threatens a small group's ability to claim dominion is enough to make a lot of people (the peasants) say to hell with all of it. If this is the new approach I think all of the submissions from the least to the greatest should be wiped out completely rather than taking guesses at who might be cheating and who isn't and arbitrarily invalidating the scores of someone that "must be a cheater" because they are not a known member of the HWBOT Royalty.

Edited December 17, 2022 by Mr. Fox

[TerraRaptor]

9 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

No wonder this sport is dying.

The last 20 years. Either oc is about the process of dying or it is zombie already:)

[spit051261]

It's not that bad .

Just because someone complains about Legacy .

As far as the 4090 goes , if it will sort things , I would rather see every score wiped because it seems to be affecting every other bench.

I have a lot to lose but I would rather see fair benching carry on and lose my points.

Maybe best to scrub 4090 full stop until new rules which are MANDATORY are in place .

By MANDATORY I mean , follow the rules or get a warning then a vacation .

 

Edited December 17, 2022 by spit051261