Single stage build. Old parts used (2023)

[ogblaz]

Hello all,

Wanted to build this for 10 years. Now the time has come and I made my first single stage. It is my first build but the compressor will be replaced with a rotary one from an old AC unit.
I bought a used ( compressor NJ 6220Z, condenser ) and got evaporator from a friend who made single stages and cascades almost 20 years ago.
It is charged with r404a gas (380Gr) the capillary tube is around 0.7mm (outside diameter 1.9mm), length is around 2-2.5M .
It is working OK in idle around -46°C but on long loads goes up fast. I really don`t know how to tune it.
Suction pressure is -0.2 bar, discharge is 9 bar.
I only bench 775 socket ...
The total cost is less than 100€ .

Here are some pictures if you have some advice you can give it to me

Thanks, Blaz. 

Edited February 11, 2023 by ogblaz

[ogblaz]

[TASOS]

Learn the hardware specs , limits and tolerance of your phase change hardware and parts.

Read some theory ... and then experiment by yourself.

https://lando-chillers.com/the-effect-of-capillary-tube-length-on-the-performance-of-refrigeration-system/

 

[ogblaz]

Thanks, I will try to tune it some more. Its OK I can use it for frequency and short tests, for other I have a cascade and use that in chips with no cbb .

 

 

[ogblaz]

I used e2140 processor at 1.95V for load and I added 70g more gas. It holds -46°C no problem. 

But for single core celerons and pentiums it can`t hold load at 1.95V I need to lower the voltage, or use only short tests.

When I get another compressor I will try to tune it a bit more. If I get another evaporator I will make another, I don`t want to part this one out.

Thanks, Blaz

[ogblaz]

I didn`t get another evaporator to date, but I got another compressor. 

Its a rotary compressor r410a with markings I can`t get a datasheet (5ps102), but I found that this should be a 10.2ccm unit with 2kW cooling capacity 6800BTU. 

Its not a strong compressor.. so is there any gain from my r134 embraco nj6220z , 1 HP, displacement 26.11 cm3 ?

I also shorted the cap tube for 25cm but it didn`t change much. I have at my disposal a 0.8mm captube that I think to use. Bigger captubes are only sold as 30M bundles...

 

Thank you for your help, Blaz

[wutske]

On 2/19/2023 at 9:04 AM, ogblaz said:

I used e2140 processor at 1.95V for load and I added 70g more gas. It holds -46°C no problem. 

But for single core celerons and pentiums it can`t hold load at 1.95V I need to lower the voltage, or use only short tests.

When I get another compressor I will try to tune it a bit more. If I get another evaporator I will make another, I don`t want to part this one out.

Thanks, Blaz

Is that -46°c under load ? And what exactly do you mean that it can't hold load at 1.95V ? What temperatures are you getting then ? Do you have any idea about the difference in load ? Those older Intel's don't report CPU power consumption but a kill-a-watt can give you a rough idea about the extra heat they are generating.

I don't know what other CPUs you are using, but single cores usually consume less, so are you sure that your system isn't suffering from a lack of load ? Do you keep an eye on the return to the compressor to make sure you don't return liquid instead of gas ?

On 3/10/2023 at 5:26 PM, ogblaz said:

I didn`t get another evaporator to date, but I got another compressor. 

Its a rotary compressor r410a with markings I can`t get a datasheet (5ps102), but I found that this should be a 10.2ccm unit with 2kW cooling capacity 6800BTU. 

Its not a strong compressor.. so is there any gain from my r134 embraco nj6220z , 1 HP, displacement 26.11 cm3 ?

I also shorted the cap tube for 25cm but it didn`t change much. I have at my disposal a 0.8mm captube that I think to use. Bigger captubes are only sold as 30M bundles...

 

Thank you for your help, Blaz

Generally, bigger is better ? , so the Embraco should perform better as long as your condenser can handle it.

 

 

[ogblaz]

I have a watt meter and if the whole bench table (mb, cpu, gpu) uses around 200W the single stage holds load -40°C or colder. Even in long tests or cinebench. If the wattage is more than 260W, the temperature raise slowly to + temperatures. On some dual core pentiums I saw 400W +  

If the wattage is lower than 200W(150W) the suction side does freeze up, but there is no noise from the compressor that liquid is entering it... the temp is around -46°C at that point. 

The pressures are slight vacuum on low side -0.3bar ish and 11bar on high side. I even put a pressure switch for the fan so the high side was 12-15bar but didn`t help much.

The captube is small, maybe 0.4mm... will added flow from 0.8mm help at load?

I thought so... then there is no point to use rotary compressor? 

 

Thanks!!!

 

[wutske]

I'm certainly no expert in the matter, but I've followed a lot of builds on XS eons ago, though not a lot seems to have stuck ?. Unfortunately it's also pretty much illegal to do this stuff in Belgium without the proper certifications, so I've never built on myself.

 

Your capilary tube is now probably optimized for a 200W load, going to 260W is a 30% increase which is not insignificant. Apparently this softwarw could help you with guestimating the right length: https://www.tecumseh.com/en/eu/landing-pages/sel_soft_v4_0/

 

There's a lot of good threads on XS about single stages, just spend some time reading there, they're really educational from time to time.

[FUGGER]

Take it into +psi to something like +2bar, in a vacuum does get you a better temperature but at the cost of capacity.  With a cap tube you may never reach your capacity needs/potential of the gas.  What options of gas can you mix in?  R507 or Isceon89?

Increase cap tube size, or switch to expansion valve.

Also when you charge, listen to the compressor and do not over work it, you will hear when it starts to complain.

I did not locate my box of blocks, but I found two used blocks if you want them.   I have modern mounting.  

[ogblaz]

Thanks FUGGER, I will increase the captube and see what happens. I will probably change the compressor for the rotary one... i hope to get stable temps for my loads. r134 one start to complain at higher pressures like low 0.5bar high 12bar if I overcharge...

We talked about the evaporator, you didn't get back to me with the shipping price, I don`t want to bother you if you are busy, I will make the best with what I have . 

 

Thank you all, I will update when I make some changes.

[ogblaz]

Changed the compressor to a rotary one from AC. 

Also changed the captube from ~0.6mm(2.5M) to 0.8mm(1.8M) . I think the evaporator is chilly1 design. Had to solder 4 times the evap, always small leaks sometimes here sometimes there... If I would do it one more time I would desolder the evap, clean and solder in one go. 

On the numbers side now from the wall power draw 380-400W this ss can hold around -36°C . At lower loads it holds ~-45°C .  The gas is R404 500g.

All above 430W the temperature slowly rises to +0°C . On the pressures low side at load 0-0.5bar, on high around 12. 

I don`t think I will change the design or make any more changes because it takes too much time. 

 

Thanks, Blaz

Edited March 20, 2023 by ogblaz

[ogblaz]

[TASOS]

14 hours ago, ogblaz said:

Changed the compressor to a rotary one from AC. 

Also changed the captube from ~0.6mm(2.5M) to 0.8mm(1.8M) . I think the evaporator is chilly1 design. Had to solder 4 times the evap, always small leaks sometimes here sometimes there... If I would do it one more time I would desolder the evap, clean and solder in one go. 

On the numbers side now from the wall power draw 380-400W this ss can hold around -36°C . At lower loads it holds ~-45°C .  The gas is R404 500g.

All above 430W the temperature slowly rises to +0°C . On the pressures low side at load 0-0.5bar, on high around 12. 

I don`t think I will change the design or make any more changes because it takes too much time. 

 

Thanks, Blaz

 

Reposition your filter (dont place it flat)

Try to give it at least a couple of degrees angle.

 

[ogblaz]

Yes! I did that a week ago after I read that the filter must not be horizontal   . There was a topic on xs where somebody wrote that liquid line should be as low as posible... if you see on my older pictures how the filter was positioned.

Now I have it like this, is this OK or I will gain someting if I put it vertical? 

 

Thanks for your reply!

 

 

Edited March 21, 2023 by ogblaz

[ogblaz]

[TASOS]

Just to get an idea of how "factories" positioned these

No performance gains from this , just safety.

https://www.pcstats.com/articleimages/200505/promach2gt_side6.jpg

[ogblaz]

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You don't have permission to access this resource.

 

I will force it by hand for how much I can and I will not waste and more time with this other than bench my 775 collection

 

EDIT: Found the picture... I see how it should be, my SS is working nicely so I will leave it like this... maybe it is even better for flow because there is not so much height to climb. 

With 500g of refrigerant, I think there is no worry that vapor can enter my captube... I could be wrong  

 

Thanks man, have a good one, Blaz

Edited March 22, 2023 by ogblaz

[ogblaz]

My second attempt  

20ccm compressor for R410, not the best option but it was the cheapest I could find used. Bartx old design 44/50mm stepper on flex tube 1mm captube 2.3m, some bling with gauges and sight glass. It is filled with R404a 520gr.

It preforms better than the first one but the compressor is bigger 2x, (10ccm vs 20) .

The most power I can get out of the socket on gear p5q3 q9650 is around 430W(load cinebench), the temp on the evaporator was -42°C .

 

I don`t know why the pictures doesn`t work anymore on the old posts...

 

Have a good one, Blaz

[suzuki]

Nice build!

How do you estimate the load on that cpu? 

Did you try wprime1024? 

[ogblaz]

Thank you! 

That load is for the whole motherboard, power meter on the outlet. Connected PSU, motherboard, gpu... without monitor.

On stock settings mobo is drawing around 100W, highly overclocked is drawing 430W.  Around 300W I think the CPU is consuming.. i may be wrong.  

Yes I did try wprime1024 the temp is the same it holds around -42°C on the evaporator, cinebench r11.5 put a little more stress to the cpu looking at the power meter.