sin0822 Posted February 27, 2012 Posted February 27, 2012 Why not give it a one or two week grace period like suggested for 7970? Quote
Massman Posted February 27, 2012 Author Posted February 27, 2012 well, you are right, but now we should decide without knowing exactly how this lucid thing works, how much is the performance gain and so on.how are we supposed to decide without fully knowing what's going on ? We know what it does on a high-level. We also know the performance boost it can generate in some benchmarks (between 30 and 400%). I mean. We know it's sort of legitimate and sort of not and we know the effect it has on benchmarks is of that size that it will change A LOT if allowed across the board. Quote
dinos22 Posted February 27, 2012 Posted February 27, 2012 All major manufacturers should have this tech, it's not exclusive to any single one... Quote
OBR Posted February 28, 2012 Posted February 28, 2012 bob80 - it working only in apps with profile in driver, but you can make own profiles for new apps ... sin0822 - you are wrong, look at this :http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-yQzsBYn6hXM/T0s15EaUrMI/AAAAAAAAB6A/sUpJHz2Mqko/s1600/VirtuLineup.png carefully, there is no d-GPU mode for mVP for mobile system, there is only ONE GPU (iGPU) and HyperFormance and VirtVsync still supported ... Quote
bob80 Posted February 28, 2012 Posted February 28, 2012 Massman you should open a public poll.... Quote
sin0822 Posted February 28, 2012 Posted February 28, 2012 (edited) bob80 - it working only in apps with profile in driver, but you can make own profiles for new apps ... sin0822 - you are wrong, look at this :http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-yQzsBYn6hXM/T0s15EaUrMI/AAAAAAAAB6A/sUpJHz2Mqko/s1600/VirtuLineup.png carefully, there is no d-GPU mode for mVP for mobile system, there is only ONE GPU (iGPU) and HyperFormance and VirtVsync still supported ... If that software described on Ludic's site? no. Why? Just like a lot of Lucid software/hardware, it probably never made it to full scale production. IMO that software for just a single dGPU with NO iGPU should be not allowed. However the hybrid with iGPU i my opinion should be used can be used. In this case you are bringing in another piece of un-used hardware, I believe that the stand alone MVP is called something else , it has odd numbered name. Anyways, it isn't called MVP: "When we expressed our consternation about the IGP + GPU hardware requirement to Remez, he quickly steered us to another demo of an early, in-development software product Lucid calls Virtu XLR8. This program is essentially a stand-alone version of HyperFormance capable of running on a single GPU. Remez said using only one GPU for the whole enchilada adds some overhead (though he didn't use the word "enchilada," sadly), but Lucid is in the early stages of building a solution anyhow." http://techreport.com/articles.x/21682/2 My final words, I see nothing wrong with software that uses both iGPU and dGPU, however dGPU alone should not be helped by software alone. However that software isn't the same name, and what is what I am saying, besides I doubt it is as effective. Either way there first is one problem, can we detect this? Will 3DMark and Unigine add ways to detect? Edited February 28, 2012 by sin0822 Quote
FM_Jarnis Posted February 28, 2012 Posted February 28, 2012 (edited) FM is still investigating but what we've been able to piece together so far, "if it sounds like too good to be true..." should be applied. You may get big numbers from a benchmarking application with this, but you have to ask "why is this number bigger, has the performance actually improved or is something influencing the way the score is determined?" Of course HWBOT can decide to apply whatever standard they desire (it seems for example that not running proper tessellation workloads in 3DMark 11 with AMD GPUs is "okay" by HWBOT while we think it is not) so I guess we'll see... This will take some time to properly address but expect an official stance from FM on this as related to 3DMark and PCMark soon-ish. Edited February 28, 2012 by FM_Jarnis Quote
der8auer Posted February 28, 2012 Posted February 28, 2012 I think the most important step ist that FM can detect whether Virtu was used or not. No matter whether it will be allowed on FM or HWBot it should be clear whether it was used or not. Otherwise the whole comparability of the Benchmarks is gone. Quote
sin0822 Posted February 28, 2012 Posted February 28, 2012 From my understanding after reading that datasheet again is that the Virtu MVP technology, as in how they do it is to give the output buffering tasks to the iGPU, opening up resources for the dGPU, so it doesn't have to worry about output buffering, and the monitor will be connected to the iGPU anyways. Then it also speeds up responsiveness of keyboards and mice through its vsync option. THe have some theoretical setups, but even the last one in the datasheet, requires a dual core iGPU, as in still needs two GPUs, one to handle output buffering and one to handle processing. Is there another way to measure GPU performance other than FPS? 3DMark counts FPS. Maybe 3DMark should add the ability to tell if Virtu is enabled, please do this, also add the option to tell if some other things in the program are enabled or disabled. BTW if its too good to be true it probably is? I think Ivy Bridge is full of that, we just saw 7g, too good to be true, let's ban it guys! No one wants! Quote
Crew Leeghoofd Posted February 28, 2012 Crew Posted February 28, 2012 I think Ivy Bridge is full of that, we just saw 7g, too good to be true, let's ban it guys! No one wants! I vote to ban Sin0822 :nana: Quote
thebanik Posted February 28, 2012 Posted February 28, 2012 Ah, I see the game, I vote to ban Mafio, Quote
sin0822 Posted February 28, 2012 Posted February 28, 2012 I knew I was too good. I vote to ban thebanik Quote
knopflerbruce Posted February 28, 2012 Posted February 28, 2012 Can I be banned by Chuck Norris? Quote
Mafio Posted February 28, 2012 Posted February 28, 2012 Can I be banned by Chuck Norris? i've a bad news for ya: chuck norris is massman Quote
Crew Leeghoofd Posted February 28, 2012 Crew Posted February 28, 2012 (edited) If massman is Chuck, then I'm Mac Guyver... Edited February 28, 2012 by Leeghoofd Quote
dinos22 Posted February 29, 2012 Posted February 29, 2012 talk about thread derailment, ban them ALL Quote
Massman Posted February 29, 2012 Author Posted February 29, 2012 sin0822 - you are wrong, look at this :http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-yQzsBYn6hXM/T0s15EaUrMI/AAAAAAAAB6A/sUpJHz2Mqko/s1600/VirtuLineup.png carefully, there is no d-GPU mode for mVP for mobile system, there is only ONE GPU (iGPU) and HyperFormance and VirtVsync still supported ... I'm pretty sure mobile will only work when there's an IGP (eg: SB/IB cpu) as well as a discrete graphics card present. Quote
Pasi_FM Posted February 29, 2012 Posted February 29, 2012 I think the most important step ist that FM can detect whether Virtu was used or not. No matter whether it will be allowed on FM or HWBot it should be clear whether it was used or not. Otherwise the whole comparability of the Benchmarks is gone. This is certainly our priority as soon as we get our hands on this tech as based on all the information publicly available right now the effect on benchmark scores is so huge that any benchmark score should come with the information whether this technology has been used or not. Quote
sin0822 Posted February 29, 2012 Posted February 29, 2012 This is certainly our priority as soon as we get our hands on this tech as based on all the information publicly available right now the effect on benchmark scores is so huge that any benchmark score should come with the information whether this technology has been used or not. indeed. Quote
dinos22 Posted March 1, 2012 Posted March 1, 2012 bob80 - it working only in apps with profile in driver, but you can make own profiles for new apps ... sin0822 - you are wrong, look at this :http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-yQzsBYn6hXM/T0s15EaUrMI/AAAAAAAAB6A/sUpJHz2Mqko/s1600/VirtuLineup.png carefully, there is no d-GPU mode for mVP for mobile system, there is only ONE GPU (iGPU) and HyperFormance and VirtVsync still supported ... http://www.lucidlogix.com/download/WP-Eliminating%20Graphics%20Pipeline%20Redundancies%20181011.pdf According to whitepaper, page2 last diagram, you have to have a discrete GPU as well as iGPU for it to work properly Quote
dinos22 Posted March 1, 2012 Posted March 1, 2012 (edited) 8800GT is not supported by LucidMVP, haven't tested it but paperwork suggests so. Edited March 1, 2012 by dinos22 Quote
der8auer Posted March 1, 2012 Posted March 1, 2012 been benching for 10 years under cold now, beeing through a couple of new hwb-revisions....I mostly had to bench everything new after changes... why not another time? if it really helps, if it gives us benefit and more fps - not sure why you (and many others) refusing it so hard - oc have ALWAYS been about pushing it, about discovering new tweaks and ways to increase fps...if this is the key now, we need to accept it! because of the reason dino just posted. It's not supported by every card and doesnt scale on every benchmark. Means we won't get comparable results and will blow up the rankings. Quote
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