Kal-EL

Monster card Step! I have a RE3 bios for you try on the OCA FTP

Nice benchies guys 2more 50L sessions before the weekend? Man on a mission! :nana:

Nice freeker

Nice run mang

Nice score and boints brother Duke

You shouldnt be looking at your sister in such ways

Nice score, can you imagine the clocks without that assistant distracting you????

I kid sometimes man so as to not seem like an uptight wench :celebration:

I'll book a restful stay at The Holiday Inn for some decent replies

This a fresh "new" retail BZ? what da batch?

How would a governing body create less cheaters without making it complex and slow in addtion to the extending the length of the validation process? It was more focussed at confidence. Giving the members a proper channel with which they could be confident that their concerns and complaints were being properly heard, discussed, evaluated and weighted. But in the scenario above where rule enforcement is based on a preponderance of evidence instead of infallable facts, hwbot moderators could take swifter action against suspected cheaters thereby becoming a deterrent to any future cheaters. Instead of focussing in on the detection process, we decrease our normal requirement of proof beyond a reasonable doubt down into say Reasonable Suspicion or as low as just a preponderance of evidence. Again, a ruling based on a mere preponderance of evidence would result in progressive punishment, e.g. warning w/removal, suspension w/removal, suspension +1 w/removal, suspension +2 w/removal, Total Ban. In situations where the cheat is discovered by the uncovering of infallabe facts and evidence, punishment would be immediately harsher. Basically its about perception and digestion. Implementing this more stringent hardline approach to moderating members could be viewed as arbitrary and dictorial. But if in instances where controversy ensues and a team captain, after discussing the matter with his team, feels an injustice has occurred, he/she could bring the matter before this body. Sort of a structured appeal process whereby this body of team captains discuss the issue and formulate a final decision. Basically judged by a jury of his/her peers. This is of course assuming that the Team Captains are reasonable people and could apply the question "Would a reasonable and experienced overclocker believe that based on the set of facts and circumstances that this member is cheating" Basically, I was trying to accomplish a few things at once: 1- Find a balanced and reasonable approach to cheat deterrance. 2- Remove any perception that the membership is helpless to effect change. 3- Create more confidence that "Fair Play" exists in this online environment. 4- Create more "Buy In" from the teams and their captains. The more they feel a part of hwbot, the more likely they will endeavor to preserve the integrity of the bot. Regarding the local offices and live events, when that comes to fruition it'll be great for the locals that have local offices. There are a few of us that don't have local offices. I can see where empowering the people may prove a headache for business side of things but seeing as you sink or swim based on community involvement, it only makes sense to try and create that buy in and ensure confidence in it's Integrity.

Can a few of our guys join the pilot program?

Hey, obviously, its gonna be an ongoing evolution. Our conversation was via pm but it really doesn't matter now does it? The magic marker rule book is ever revolving. Since you don't remember: And here is Fredericks PM response: This was on February 14. 2010. Moving on. Now that I've pee'd in the fan, I'd like to make a suggestion about how we deal with the rules. Since we're in an Internet environment unlike pro sports on t.v. or on the futball field where they can be enforced based on factual evidence, how about we take a more subjective stance on the rules. Instead of hard facts or straight confessions, we use a preponderance of evidence to make determinations of innocence or guilt. To make it even handed, since we're uniquely on the internet, the consequences should be very progressive in cases based on a preponderance of evidence and severe in cases of blatant violations disovered by infallable evidence. Chuchnit suggested formulating a governing body that would oversea rule enforcement and applications. They would evaluate high profile cases or contreversial cases and come to an agreement. This body could be made up of a bunch of Team Captains. They could discuss and represent their teams interests in regards to rule changes and evolution of this sport. Fricken HOliday Inn Action.

This gonna come with a validation system too?

I asked for clarification on this in February and both you and Frederick said it was not allowed, period. In fact, you told me how would I feel if I had a 7ghz chip and passed it to another team member. RB clarified the rules as: " For the crew, we would not see a difference between selling/sharing or lending hardware between team members. So if you sell or rent hardware, it better be to people not belonging to your own team... Sorry about the harsh rule. " I took this information back to my Team and told them it was strictly forbiden to sell hardware to another Team Mate. Now you tell me its never changed and always been like this. Salty. A little more consistency with the rules would be much appreciated.

Why was it changed from any selling is "Sharing"?

I hear yah man, sad, angry, dissapointed, embarrassed, sympathetic, offended, all of the above. Rocks, poop, daggers, swords, whatever you want to throw at the found out offenders that make this sport dirty, I'm with yah. Long as we not throwing flowers at them. Then we all hug like brothers and sisters and move on to making things better.

I don't have any buddies in live competitions man, I'm not popular like you, just regular guy, Hiwa was a cool guy in my book, Andre was a lil full of shit at times but I respected his numbers. How he spends his money is his trip. I didn't throw rotten eggs at Hiwa or Andre, they did that themselves but I guess you can't GET that at all. Several people on their own called, contacted Andre Yang and aquired FAKE benchmark results from him and then submitted those FAKE results in a contest for prizes. Either Andre is the "Known" facilitator of cheating or this isn't cheating at all. Maybe in another universe? Those are the rotten eggs my man. Boggles my mind how your veiwpoints on this matter are so off base. You say you don't speak for hwbot but brother you inherantly do speak for them because with great power comes great responsibility. I think you're just pissed off cuz your friends got nabbed doing something that was so commonplace, it wasn't wrong at all. Maybe you referring to someone else being a hypocrat, I know its not me.

I'm not defending anybody's actions, I don't see what goggles you are using that would make you see that. I'm merely sticking to the incident at hand rather than pointing attention somewhere else so that the buddies don't get held accountable for their actions. You want justice for an injustice you percieved in the past, open a thread and draw the communities attention to it again if you are not satisfied. I don't protect or defend people that are selfish asshats willing to screw over the next honest hardworking guy with a dream. Heck, I'll even jump in and say "ASSHAT" if its reasonably verified. If you'd rather ignore the Andre/Hiwa thing, thats your business. The whole thing is upsetting but more upsetting when people want to ignore or place guilt elsewhere when its right up in your face. Maybe I shouldnt give a rat's ass and just fold the cards, chalk it up to everyone not having any morals, maybe even start bending, breaking, ignoring the rules cuz I'm a popular guy, bullshit. Thats what alot of asshats hope will happen, people just stfu and walk away helpless. Why pick now as the time to talk about the other incident that happend so long ago? Rediculous obvious why, a special needs chimp can figure that out. I agree the bitching is a bit long in the tooth but the whole thing affects different people "differently". Eventually it'll fade as all things do.

Whats with the deflection, this incident is seperate from the other. That other subject was brought up, discussed, people had their chance to bitch, moan or PROVE it one way or another. The community spoke at that time, shit was said or not said. Monstru, your words confuse me. On one point you appear to have no problem with what was done and justify it by blaming their actions on someone else getting away with a violation over a year ago. Then you say you are against cheating. Which is it man, either you're cool with sharing your scores with freinds, team mates or your not cool with it. If you did not know Hiwa or the others personally, what would your reaction be then? If I snatched away a bunch of top spots with scores borrowed from Shamino and K|ngp|n, I'm sure you'd have me crucified pretty damned fast cuz you don't know what a very nice man I am. It doesnt do anybody any comfort to see the guys we've looked up to for so long believing that its o.k. to cheat if it fits their personal criteria or if they KNOW someone before them has cheated. Integrity, Respect, Fairness would do us some good. The more you guys defend these crooked actions, the ugglier it gets.

I believe you are mistaken.

It sucks to have a nice guy make such a huge mistake Hiwa, it does. But if the nice guy is doing this, what is the jerk doing? Anybody will naturally ask that question. For certain, selling hardware to team mates has already been established as hardware sharing.

Once the trust is broken, its hard to repair.

I'm fresh outa miracles but if we all chip in for rooms at a Holiday Inn for the weekend, I'm sure we can figure that one out by Monday