Kal-EL

Nice run chew*

Nice run MM, theres more in there, release the beast!

Hypothetically: Those who worry about being categorized into the "PRO" league unfairly because they only recieve one stick of ram every six months from a manufacturer, I say this, you're already competing in the "PRO" league right now. We already compete (not really competition) with Nick, Andre, Hi guys and others right now as it stands, its no different now. Your current ranking will either get better as the field narrows in the pro league or stay the same, not get worst. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Does splitting the leagues have pro's and con's, yes. Does doing nothing make everyone happy, yes and no. However, I think the majority are discontented with the current situation. How a new split category performs will be entirely up to the willingness and capabilities of hwbot and its staff. We can't expect them to bend over backwards and take on un-realistic tasks like watching each and every 30 minute benching videos that verify hardware specs. Only hwbot can say what is un-realistic and what isn't as only they know what they are capable of regulating or willing to regulate. There would not be some of these problems if the opt-out "do not participate in rankings" feature was used by well backed by manufacturer overclockers. If the top 10 or 20 overclockers could be polled to find out what really matters to them. Points? Cups? Benchmark Standings? Point Standings? or are they mainly concerned with pushing they're manufacturers goals and objectives? After all when people look at the rankings for an individual benchmark their awe is who's on top or in the top three. Manufacturers are only concerned with seeing their product marketed atop the rankings, they would still be happy here as well. Are these guys after raw competition? Also consider the goals and objectives of Hwbot itself. I'm not sure specifically what those goals and objectives are but the majority of us make the assumption that they exist to serve us. Define "us". Is it the majority? the minority? the manufacturers? the pros? the joes? I'd love to see a specific response this question, a mission statement of sorts. Personally, I'm interested in seeing overclocking and extreme overclocking continue to grow and expand to people that ordinarily wouldnt experience the joy of overclocking. Its good for manuf's, joes, pros, everybody Most of the time people just grin and bear it when they see something they don't like without saying a word. This doesnt solve any problems and just festers silently as people walk away from the competitions.

Well that illustrates your point much better than all the dancing :banana::nana: , it seemed for a while your point was to just ignore all aspects of the poll. I chalked it up to sword fighting syndrome.

If there are no other variables then sure flip a coin. Its overly simplistic to me. Still don't get your point in how it relates to the discussion tho.

That doesnt make sense, some people are cheaters and some arnt. Can't mash them up like potatoes and deal in absolutes. Only sith lords deal in absolutes. Quite a bit of ignoring going on lately, if you can't auger the point, side step it and auger another point. Based on the premise that one fact if proven will prove all facts, flawed.

I don't get it, you saying bz cheats or has the capacity to cheat or has cheated in the past?

We all love the crazy scores by skilled champions but it'd sure be nice to have some hope of competing somewhere.

Your right Massman, given the existing parameters of the poll, it is readily apparent that thusfar the majority are in favor of keeping ES chips here at hwbot under the following conditions that ES CHIPS ARE NOT GIVEN POINTS or ARE PLACED INTO A SEPERATE LEAGUE. Can't argue with that logic at all. Guess your gonna start moving the ES into a new category or remove points now?

Only 16 overclockers wish for things to remain the same?

Yes, submit result with retail beating pants off ES. Then there would be no more arguments to keep ES chips in the rankings because retail is better. Never again will we be arguing about ES because now it is gone from rankings and Top 10 Overclockers are happy because Retail pwns ES. Go find Andy's batch guys

No one is furious, just frustrated. It boggles me though that if people are here on the premise of "competing" that they would be o.k. with their competitors having an markedly unfair advantage over you them. Either they arnt really here to compete or they are just very toolerant.

Whats the problem?

There is a great number of talented and knowledgeable overclockers out there more than capable of achieving those clocks with the same hardware. These same talented overclockers do not have the privilege of the cold bug fixed provided by some manufacturers and nvidia. Don't sell yourself short on your potential. I'm 100% hobbiest and enthusiast but it doesn't mean I'm gonna like watching your average joe overclocker beat the guts outa his retail hardware just to be creamed by Gigabyte or MSI. This is exactly whats happening, average joe's make up the majority of submissions at hwbot yet they are being pitted against insurmountable odds when competing directly against Manufacturer backed prototype hardware binned and designed to destroy world records. Is hwbot participation completely and utterly about corporate competitive marketing or will there be a space for retail/average joe overclockers to excell?

If you were competing on a retail platform with no hardware support from manufacturers, you would care a great deal about improving the playing field. Its easy to sit back in the rankings and chalk it up to "Its great to see the great scores". But if you're getting close to the top end of the rankings with hopes of breaking into the top ten, you'd be pretty disheartened to continue while getting slapped around by ES chips you have no access to. Sure you could ebay some reject ao's or find some black market dealer in Taiwan but odds are you won't get anywhere decent. TO me, I see manufacturers investments in top tier overclockers for marketing purposes. Manufacturer after manufacturer looking for the next world record to market their wares. So they support their overclockers and support them well. This is awesome, we get to see wicked prototype hardware doing amazing things on Ln2. I guess the question really boil down to: Why do you submit benchmarks to hwbot?

Filibustered!

The discussion will die down soon and the die hard overclockers will continue to make submissions like the great enthusiasts that they are until the next ES GPU/CPU hits the marketing scene.

Retail Army FTW!

Retail Army!

I wonder what MSI, Asus or EVGA will do next?

Our internal poll results show a desire for ES to be completely removed. How to regulate such a rule is being discussed as well. HiCookie's scores/clocks are redonkeyless/crazy/sick.

Holy Crapola Duke, you're gettin jiggy with it now homie

Yah, nice pushing sofos, keep pushing

There are alot of frustrated people out there. ES vs Retail, Pro's vs Joe's, Afraid to compete NDA cb mod agreements, sharing is caring sessions, Enforce/don't Enforce rules, its quite the pisser.

666 7mhz