Experience on buying a binned cpu from Zwitterion

[FireKillerGR]

Hello guys,

 

thought to make this thread as we (me and Phil) bought a cpu from user Zwitterion and have problems since we received it.

 

Cpu was advertised as a 6775 R15 / 6800 R11 one for 650€ & 25 € shipping.

Thought it was a good deal and proceeded on sending 2 payments, one of 480€ and one of 195€.

 

At this point its important to mention that cpu was advertised as easy to bench, -160C cbb, no cb, 6.2+ G Cache and no imc issues (4000+ 12-12-12).

 

We got the cpu within 3 days and tested some days later, after some quick testing we couldnt run r15 @6.7 GHz. Asked Zwitterion about this and he said that we should use custom/lapped IHS and this is how everyone does it (der8auer & hazzan as well - later confirmed with hazzan that isnt true).

Also suggested to mess around with the voltages as we did.

1.75 - 1.9 vcore -> no go

Pll term 1.5 - 1.7 -> no go

PLL 2.2 - 2.4 -> no go

Pll Bandwidth 2 - 4 -> no go

 

Cpu would always crash/bsod during R15 @6.7G

 

Next day $@39@ came and he brought custom copper ihs (by bartx) but saw no improvement (still couldnt run 6.7). Then zwitterion started blaming our skills and asked if there is another overclocker nearby who could test the cpu; mentioned that $@39@ was there and saw that the chip cant run @6.7 and he told us "Don't talk about this max freq (said that cpu cant do 6775 R15) on r15 or r11 and let saega bench".

 

After this point Zwitterion implied that we are noobs and cant run the cpu properly.

 

Of course I asked for a refund and actually suggested that he would test the cpu and if it would run @6.77R15 he would sell it for 600eu and I would compensate the rest 50 but he denied.

 

I dont know what to say/do at this point but thought to create this thread just to inform others who might be dealing with him.

 

Will try to upload chat logs soon.

 

Stavros

 

PS. I already shared a link to this thread to him so he can speak/defend/state otherwise for himself & as I have nothing to hide.

Edited March 29, 2017 by FireKillerGR

[Wizerty]

After this point Zwitterion implied that we are noobs and cant run the cpu properly.

Well, it seems that he know you pretty well

 

I'm kidding !

I hope you will find a solution. As far as I know he is not a bad person and most of the time people don't have to complain about is price/services.

 

Maybe just bad luck on this one.

 

I bought "same" cpu month ago (from Zwitterion), but it is still in his box, no time to test it. I will try and let you know ASAP.

IF it's a barely 6.7 R15 chip I will report him also, French friend or not it doesn't matter.

When you buy a pre bin CPU you can have 10-20 MHz less, but 80 MHz is "too much". 6780 is a really good chip. 6700 is a average+. Honestly, as every OCer, I already had the same issue, sold a good CPU and buyer can't bench it as high as me, and also the opposite, sell 5.7 chip and buyer benched it at 5.8+ . Don't know why...

 

You test it on APEX ?

For IHS it can make difference and help to avoid crack. But if you don't have crack, and use same TIM then frequency should be closed.

Edited March 29, 2017 by Wizerty

[Alex@ro]

Damn it,sad when things do not go smooth

[FireKillerGR]

Well, it seems that he know you pretty well

 

I'm kidding !

I hope you will find a solution. As far as I know he is not a bad person and most of the time people don't have to complain about is price/services.

 

Maybe just bad luck on this one.

 

I bought "same" cpu month ago (from Zwitterion), but it is still in his box, no time to test it. I will try and let you know ASAP.

IF it's a barely 6.7 R15 chip I will report him also, French friend or not it doesn't matter.

When you buy a pre bin CPU you can have 10-20 MHz less, but 80 MHz is "too much". 6780 is a really good chip. 6700 is a average+

 

You test it on APEX ?

For IHS it can make difference and help to avoid crack. But if you don't have crack, and use same TIM then frequency should be closed.

 

Hey man,

 

thanks for your reply/response. If you check the conversation you will see that I never said he is a lier, actually I gave him excuses but just said that cpu cant run 6.7G R15 and asked for assistance and then for a refund.

 

Mobo was apex & tried different IHS as well & had no cracks (can run 6.6+ just not 6.7)

[Wizerty]

"Will try to upload chat logs soon."

Not sure this is "legal", better ask him before

 

I will try to talk to him to see if I can help.

I'm sure "you" will find a solution, keep cool (you and him) !!!

 

Have a good day,

Wiz

[FireKillerGR]

Not sure this is "legal", better ask him before

 

I will try to talk to him to see if I can help.

I'm sure "you" will find a solution, keep cool (you and him) !!!

 

Have a good day,

Wiz

 

thanks buddy

[Radi]

hi all

 

i have buy a cpu at switt at the begining of kabylake . he sell it to me for 6720r15 and it's exactly what it can do .

 

Radi`s Cinebench - R15 score: 1515 cb with a Core i7 7700K

[Oxydgen]

Hi all Overclockers !

 

To begin with, it is important to note that it is so regrettable that the situation getting worse .. .

I did not wish get here but Stavros has decided differently

 

I'm so sorry that my cpu can't run at least 6.75G R15 on your Setup.

And i didn't say that you are noobs .. i just say : maybe your setup isn't also clean as mine.

 

On my Apex Setup the cpu was run exactly at 6790 Mhz R11 and 6770 Mhz R15 (Fast test !!)

And before to send the cpu i had test the cpu a second time ! And same résults (+/- 10 Mhz)

I have tested enormously Kabylake 7700K and this cpu is maybe in top 3 of my personnal binning.

 

There are severals way to explain this big difference :

- die scratch or scuffing with improperly assembled.

- bad thermal conduction with DIE/IHS/POT

- OS Windows : some difference between WIN 10, WIn 7 ..

- Bios version and settings (voltage, ... )

- the way to bench (don't take it personally Stavros !) ^^

- Motherboard : Maybe your Apex was bad with high frequencies

 

Until i'm sure one thing , this cpu was run at 6750 +R15 when i send you Man !

 

With my experience of binning skylake and kabylake .. i 'm not a beginner anymore.

I sold enough of bin cpu on hwbot and in my circle to tell you i'm not a liar.

A lot of people can testify my words 99 % of my buyers are very satisfied.

 

 

For the moment and see how the situation evolves i can't accept a refund !

I try to be clean and accommodating but make a thread with the sole aim to tarnishing my reputation on Hwbot .. isn't fair !

I hate this attitude .....................................................

 

My last proposal is to send you my personnal setting on apex !

 

Let me know !

 

Everybody have a nice day. (and happy reading ^^)

Edited March 29, 2017 by Zwitterion

[FireKillerGR]

Hi all Overclockers !

 

To begin with, it is important to note that it is so regrettable that the situation getting worse .. .

I did not wish get here but Stavros has decided differently

 

I'm so sorry that my cpu can't run at least 6.75G R15 on your Setup.

And i didn't say that you are noobs .. i just say : maybe your setup isn't also clean as mine.

 

On my Apex Setup the cpu was run exactly at 6790 Mhz R11 and 6770 Mhz R15 (Fast test !!)

And before to send the cpu i had test the cpu a second time ! And same résults (+/- 10 Mhz)

I have tested enormously Kabylake 7700K and this cpu is maybe in top 3 of my personnal binning.

 

There are severals way to explain this big difference :

- die scratch or scuffing with improperly assembled.

- bad thermal conduction with DIE/IHS/POT

- OS Windows : some difference between WIN 10, WIn 7 ..

- Bios version and settings (voltage, ... )

- the way to bench (don't take it personally Stavros !) ^^

- Motherboard : Maybe your Apex was bad with high frequencies

 

Until i'm sure one thing , this cpu was run at 6750 +R15 when i send you Man !

 

With my experience of binning skylake and kabylake .. i 'm not a beginner anymore.

I sold enough of bin cpu on hwbot and in my circle to tell you i'm not a liar.

A lot of people can testify my words 99 % of my buyers are very satisfied.

 

 

For the moment and see how the situation evolves i can't accept a refund !

I try to be clean and accommodating but make a thread with the sole aim to tarnishing my reputation on Hwbot .. isn't fair !

I hate this attitude .....................................................

 

My last proposal is to send you my personnal setting on apex !

 

Let me know !

 

Everybody have a nice day. (and happy reading ^^)

If you re-check the chat I never said you are a lier, instead I gave you excuses (ex cpu was degraded / sent wrong cpu by mistake etc. ) as insulting you, wouldnt be the best way to make things work.

 

So, why this thread was made:

a) you never mentioned that we would need custom/lapped IHS before actually receiving the cpu.

b) You implied at least two times that we are noobs and that we should have someone else try the cpu. "Don't talk about this max freq on r15 or r11 and let saega bench" is just an example.

c) As you can see we tried whatever you suggested over the last 2 days in order to pass the 6.7G barrier. Then we hit a wall without any valuable feedback.

So since you suggested it, there is no reason to skip the bios profile from our side. I am here to push for things to work, not the other way around.

 

Anyway, again, will try to make it work based on your additional suggestions and see.

[Splave]

Maybe FirekillerGR wounded it and now wants the money back

 

Im kidding.

 

Want to buy mine now?!?

[Oxydgen]

Maybe FirekillerGR wounded it and now wants the money back

 

Im kidding.

 

Want to buy mine now?!?

 

humhh... i forgot this option !

 

Thank you Splave for this idea !

[FireKillerGR]

Maybe FirekillerGR wounded it and now wants the money back

 

Im kidding.

 

Want to buy mine now?!?

Sent photo of the cpu yday hehe

 

not enough money broski except if FKGR50 coupon is ok

Edited March 29, 2017 by FireKillerGR

[Splave]

Line of credit is fine sorry for OT

[websmile]

I want coupons for rebate as well

[FireKillerGR]

So just to update and close the topic.

 

CPU is degraded, after 2x stock IHS, 1x bartx' IHS and 1x fully lapped one it did 6.70 R15 and 6730~ r11.5.

 

Zwitterion did a partial refund (150€).

 

Thats pretty much it.

[subaruwrc]

So just to update and close the topic.

 

CPU is degraded, after 2x stock IHS, 1x bartx' IHS and 1x fully lapped one it did 6.70 R15 and 6730~ r11.5.

 

Zwitterion did a partial refund (150€).

 

Thats pretty much it.

 

Nice outcome

 

So can I get a partial refund from you too? After the advertised soc boards not working as it should ? Or just leave it there as we did till?

[FireKillerGR]

Nice outcome

 

So can I get a partial refund from you too? After the advertised soc boards not working as it should ? Or just leave it there as we did till?

 

Since you didnt ask for something similar 2 months ago when you got the mobo and started benching it (you got it for 150€ and you were aware that it was insulated, that some of the usbs werent functional and thats why we added usb bracket thus the price) I dont think this makes sense (you ran what you had to run and now you either try to sell it or decrease the already low price you paid for it).

 

Maybe I can ship you a usb to ps2 adapter since I didnt know ps2 wasnt functional

[subaruwrc]

Since you didnt ask for something similar 2 months ago when you got the mobo and started benching it (you got it for 150€ and you were aware that it was insulated, that some of the usbs werent functional and thats why we added usb bracket thus the price) I dont think this makes sense (you ran what you had to run and now you either try to sell it or decrease the already low price you paid for it).

 

Maybe I can ship you a usb to ps2 adapter since I didnt know ps2 wasnt functional

 

Yeah I know It was just a question came to my mind.

some usbs were not functioning properly that was the statement,not that all back usbs + ps2 is dead...

nevermind I will kill it.

[FireKillerGR]

Yeah I know It was just a question came to my mind.

some usbs were not functioning properly that was the statement,not that all back usbs + ps2 is dead...

nevermind I will kill it.

 

Buddy I dont think we ever had an issue before and it caught me by surprise that you didnt reach via pm/fb for such request (on the other hand I informed zwitterion hours before this thread and even linked him so he could speak for himself).

 

So, indeed I said that some of the USBs werent functioning properly and thats why we had been using USB bracket (which I included) since we saw the issue. About PS/2 wasn't aware as I told you that we have been using a K70 for almost 2 years now.

 

Afterwards, you said its like that and that you would bench it anyway with the bracket without raising any questions or request for help for the specific matter (only asked for suggestions re OS/efficiency) .

Since then (2 months ago since you received, changed insulation and starting benching it) you benched it with different cpus/gpus and multiple sessions.

 

Now you mentioned partial refund (since you failed to sell it according to hwbot sale thread) after you benched what you had to bench which for me its kinda... not cool.

 

You got a motherboard with a bracket to deal with USB issue as agreed beforehand, if PS/2 is the problem I can get you a USB to PS2 adapter but I doubt you will bench it again.

Edited April 6, 2017 by FireKillerGR

[subaruwrc]

Buddy I dont think we ever had an issue before and it caught me by surprise that you didnt reach via pm/fb for such request (on the other hand I informed zwitterion hours before this thread and even linked him so he could speak for himself).

 

So, indeed I said that some of the USBs werent functioning properly and thats why we had been using USB bracket (which I included) since we saw the issue. About PS/2 wasn't aware as I told you that we have been using a K70 for almost 2 years now.

 

Afterwards, you said its like that and that you would bench it anyway with the bracket without raising any questions or request for help for the specific matter (only asked for suggestions re OS/efficiency) .

Since then (2 months ago since you received, changed insulation and starting benching it) you benched it with different cpus/gpus and multiple sessions.

 

Now you mentioned partial refund (since you failed to sell it according to hwbot sale thread) after you benched what you had to bench which for me its kinda... not cool.

 

You got a motherboard with a bracket to deal with USB issue as agreed beforehand, if PS/2 is the problem I can get you a USB to PS2 adapter but I doubt you will bench it again.

 

Maybe I should have said,could I get a partial refund If I've indicated this problem earlier?

 

Yep you mentioned " some " usbs not working properly, ( In my readings its still not equal as all back usb ports are dead ) and on ps2 you were not aware.

Ok,but maybe u should have tested it.

 

I "failed" to sell it because:

its not worth 150 euros in this condition

I wont give it away for ridicoulos 40 euros

its got 40% off on some sites...

 

But yeah I failed.

 

In this way you failed to advertise your stuff correctly as the soc force ln2 has problems too ( on which you wasnt aware too ) and which werent adressed too.

 

but its ok for me,I dont want money back,just asked,seeing your thread about an ( I guess ) similar problem

[FireKillerGR]

Maybe I should have said,could I get a partial refund If I've indicated this problem earlier?

 

Yep you mentioned " some " usbs not working properly, ( In my readings its still not equal as all back usb ports are dead ) and on ps2 you were not aware.

Ok,but maybe u should have tested it.

 

I "failed" to sell it because:

its not worth 150 euros in this condition

I wont give it away for ridicoulos 40 euros

its got 40% off on some sites...

 

But yeah I failed.

 

In this way you failed to advertise your stuff correctly as the soc force ln2 has problems too ( on which you wasnt aware too ) and which werent adressed too.

 

but its ok for me,I dont want money back,just asked,seeing your thread about an ( I guess ) similar problem

 

As you said, it might not cost 150 eu now since it got 40% off @stores & x99 being almost dead since new chipset is coming out soon (mid year afair).

Indeed I said that some of the USBs didnt work as supposed and thats why I was using the bracket (as mentioned) instead.

 

My bad for not testing PS/2 even tho it was never needed/we never used it for X99 (had no issue with usb recognition on OS) so it never passed my mind; maybe ethernet is dead as well; you can also say that and I wont deny since I didnt use it for my sessions.

 

Anyhow, if you had expressed a request for a refund back then or a request for assistance, we could work on something even tho, it might be a bit silly if you ask yourself what would an acceptable refund be? 10-20eu?

Both issues are fixable and dont affect the reason of why it was bought (oc) but I guess thats from what pov u see it.

 

Re ln2 it was never communicated to me that there was smth wrong with the mobo & never had issues with it.

In the end, both mobos were insulated and used for xoc (which was communicated) and never had issues with them on whatever I needed to use during the sessions (except USB ports of x99).

 

As for why this thread was created:

Zwitterion was informed about the thread a day before its creation and was made cause we came to an end and saw no valuable suggestions/outcome + being offended a bit by the way we perceived what he said (two sides disagreed on this but doesnt matter anymore) by letting someone else test it and watch.

During the discussions it was always about us doing something wrong instead of the possibility that the chip was degraded or seller made a mistake.

 

Thats the difference on you not communicating the issues towards me (you mentioned once that x99 had ps/2 and usbs dead and that you worked around it with the bracket & nothing re ln2 and this was when you received them 2 months ago - nothing since then) vs us trying whatever seller suggested and didnt see a valuable outcome. Quite a big difference if you ask me; especially since I tried to help with whatever question you had even not related to what you purchased.

Edited April 6, 2017 by FireKillerGR