Crew Sweet Posted October 22, 2012 Crew Share Posted October 22, 2012 (edited) This post will be updated periodically 3. Tweaks and cheats A big part of the benchmarking process is setting up your operating system to be as fast as possible in the benchmark you want to run. Stripping down to the bare minimum, messing with the registry settings or changing the video card drivers from ‘quality’ to ‘performance’, these are all more than legit tweaks. A tweak is what can be considered as a manual change in system settings to increase the performance, which in the end affects your benchmark result positively. Not all tweaks are to be used in 24/7 setups as they might decrease performance for your daily applications or even limit you in what you can do. However, where there’s competition, there are cheaters! HWBot will not allow people to cheat their way to higher scores leaving less honor and/or points for those who play fair. Therefor, we try to be as clear and strict as possible when it comes to cheaters: we block the score instantly. Depending on the cheat used and the motivation behind the cheat, we can also ban the member. What do we consider as severe cheating (instant ban): - Submitting scores that belong to other people - Using software, performing hardware modifications or by human interaction altering the perceived speed of the benchmark program, tricking it to believe it ran faster and thus producing a better result. (adjusted 31st of August 2010) - Using a program to edit screenshots to have more points What do we consider as illegal tweaks (instant block): - PhysX enabled drivers - Mipmap (either through software or registry) - Using a program to launch your benchmark, unless officially approved by HWBOT; benchmarks must always be launched using the shortcuts found in the installation directory. - Software based ramdrives Update 17th March 2010: Any software or human interaction causing the benchmark application to fail to (properly) render the textures or making the rendered image to differ too much from the original due to other software tweaking Update 20th July 2010: Any software or human interaction causing the benchmark to use different calculation algorithms as intended by the original software creator. E.g. replacing the codec or browser in PCMark2005. At HWBot, we are all for sharing information such as tweaks, voltage modifications and many more. However, we do understand that certain tweaks are rather kept silent because it gives a small advantage over the competition, which can come in handy when competing for that special golden cup. If questions are raised about a certain score or a series of scores, we strongly suggest trying to clear the air as fast as possible; not because of HWBot or any other member, but to prevent you from getting a bad name in the community (even if you don’t deserve it!). From past experience, we know that when serious questions are raised regarding the legitimacy of a score or overclocker, it’s always best to choose the honorable path by for instance explaining a few tricks or even removing the questioned score from HWBot. If you are uncertain about the validity of a tweak/cheat, you can always contact one of the crew members. The tweak/cheat will be tested and discussed and you will receive an answer categorized as legit/not legit. If you don’t want the tweak to be leaked, no problem: we guarantee that the tweak will only be shared with those who took part in the evaluation. 24/10/2012 time to put things in order (Thanks Pro) okay guys let me weigh in on this, my position firstly im waiting for all my scores to be removed and i will not submit pcmark scores to hwbot anymore, most of my scores feature totally legitimate tweaks, some scores have things like transparent windows with resized windows that we have worked out is not allowed. the main reason i am removing my scores is so i can stay objective in decision making and no one thinks that i am using their tweaks against them... and just to clarify im not using any tweaks that are replacing benchmark files, so if your doing that, your doing it wrong ill always bench pcm05 privately though as i love the benchmark why keep pcm05? for those that are saying "get rid of pcm05", we are basically at that point and i am sure if this doesnt work then that is what will happen, but there are lots of reasons to keep this benchmark, for example, we have guys like Steve and Aristides that are always strong in this bench and are getting beaten by tweaks that they are not comfortable using and rightly so, this benchmark has a place and is a source of enjoyment for lots of people, so i believe we should have a proper effort to try and fix it up before abandoning it please be patient now guys i see lots of people saying, whys this not banned, why is mine banned and not his, etc, please be patient, this will takes weeks, months, and will be ongoing, but it is no different than any other benchmark, other than the fact it has gone unchecked for so long.. if this happened in 3dmark11 it would be immediately checked and in the future pcmark05 will be the same what is allowed and whats not? lets get something cleared up, a cheat is not a super-tweak, i WOULD call bobs TW a supertweak, i would call replacing codecs in a benchmark cheating, if it pleases you, then call it a super-cheat, whatever, but if its outside the rules its not a tweak, and i am just as much to blame for things like TW window resizing as anyone else benching PCM, now lets get onto the juicy stuff, whats allowed and whats not, this is extremely simple, lets go back to two very basic hwbot rules, 1. "Using software, performing hardware modifications or by human interaction altering the perceived speed of the benchmark program, tricking it to believe it ran faster and thus producing a better result. (adjusted 31st of August 2010)" 2. not modifying the benchmark itself Yes d3d, video encoding via registry or powertoy and LOD go against these rules, BUT they have been used and accepted as officially OK, unless staff have specifically said something is allowed that goes against HWBOTs general rules then it is NOT allowed if what you are doing in pcmark05 goes against one of those 2 rules, remove it now. staff will be contacting users with out of line submissions asking for proof on how to replicate them within the rules, if you are worried you cant provide that proof, remove your score now or it will be removed for you use your brain guys, if you know something is not right, 2400MB/s virusscan on a weak AMD platform, then its probably not right, this is the ethical side of hwbot we can't enforce but hope is in place Key areas we are targeting to start with Some of the key areas we will be targeting, but not limited to: Video encoding replacement, audio encoding Irregularly large trans windows Irregularly large memory latency Massive browser scores Anything out of line with file decoding Crazy virusscans or hdd general What is OK I am not going to go through every tweak and say its ok or its not ok, thats what the general rules are for and they cover alot of the "super tweaks", but not all, FD2 as a program is totally allowed, but using it to manipulate the window size or minimize windows is not allowed, similarly using a script to do this is not allowed as it breaks the "benchmark percieved speed rule" BUT as with any benchmark, if you can do it via control panel such as personalization or registry then it SHOULD be allowed, but there are always exceptions to the rule such as MIPMAP and in the future there might be other exceptions, but this is the current position, there is no one rule fits all model so take TW for example, if you can make the windows really small and change the text type in control panel then that is legal, SCRIPTS ARE LEGAL, i use scripts in nearly every benchmark, but to do things like control cpu clock, change gpu clocks on the fly, and to change things like the drives for different harddrive during PCMARK, that is all OK Using a script to do something that goes against the general rules is NOT ok. For example replacing a file that the benchmark uses to make TE go faster, NOT OK. Things like codecs can be tricky, as microsoft may update them or another program installed for watching videos may influence the scores, this is not the case in PCM05, if you are putting codecs specially in the pcm05 directory or replacing codecs that pcm05 installs, this is definatly NOT OK, i think that is common sense also forcing pcm05 to look in a folder it doesnt normally so it uses your codec, not OK, again common sense, guys you get the drift right? if it breaks hwbot general rules then it is NOT OK Raid XPERT Still up in the air is raid xpert, we are discussing the outcome of this one right now, there and positives and negatives to both sides of the fence and we need to make sure everything is worked out properly Massman said it was allowed, but now that we are aware that their is some bugging going on, we are reviewing it. We don't want peoples expensive raid setups obsoleted by a bugged software, Fairness This is not a witch hunt, everyone will be given the oppurtunity to prove their tweak is fair in a confidential environment. If you tweak is legitimate, it won't be shared, it will be approved and you can continue using it privately if you so wish. If you choose to not share the tweak with staff and your score looks out of line then it will be removed. Lets hope we can clean the benchmark up once and for all, remember guys, please use your brain, we dont want to remove scores, so please do it yourself if you know they go against rules http://hwbot.org/forum/showpost.php?p=205405&postcount=122 oh and of course, the ie9 css is not allowed, there is really no difference between replacing the web files and doing that CSS, the benchmark is no longer rendering the data that it was designed to render, hence skewing the results, so just to clarify IE9 CSS is not allowed http://hwbot.org/forum/showpost.php?p=205643&postcount=167 synthesis and to take into account This list will be updated periodically (thanks borandi) So Tweaks: Bob80's - YES Mouse Movement - YES Resizing windows (F2D or Registry) - NO IE Settings - YES AMD RaidXpert - YES (for now, new decision pending, may be retroactively removed) Changing Codecs in the directory - NO Changing Codecs outside the directory - (Sweet: i think not by now ) Script to change files for Web Pages - NO Ie9 CSS software - NO Script to change files for Text Edit - NO D3DOverrider - YES Video Encoding via registry (d3d) - YES LOD - YES Other registry tweaks - TO BE DISCUSSED BY ADMINS Scripts to change drive letters - YES Scripts to change CPU clock/cores - YES Forcing PC05 to look in other directories - NO Audio Encoding via registry (powertoy) - YES Remember: If it breaks hwbot general rules then it is NOT OK To all benchers : If you have used this type of tweaks - trick -cheats o supertweak, please delete this submission, and do not use it anymore Since October 24, 2012 - New (thanks SteveRo) Until the wrapper are ready 1. Futuremark link -ORB-required for all top 20 submissions global 2. For all non-top 20 submissions either Futuremark link or Pcm05 Results.txt required via screen shot. 3. Include real pictures of your rig, specifically storage and cooling. This is Mandatory for all submissions in PcMark'05 If you use ORB link, screenshot basic is equally mandatory Example .txt (thanks zafiropo) Example Screenshot with .txt (thanks to me ) Edited January 8, 2013 by Sweet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moose83 Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Ok but what about flash 2 Desktop? I need to know it for delete some scores;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crew Sweet Posted October 22, 2012 Author Crew Share Posted October 22, 2012 Ok but what about flash 2 Desktop? I need to know it for delete some scores;) Moose you and the others guys who have used these cheats know what is right and what is wrong in each submission made . Flash 2 Desktop "by now" isnt allowed, in the staff no conclusions about this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moose83 Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Ok than i leave flash 2 Desktop scores till decission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crew Sweet Posted October 22, 2012 Author Crew Share Posted October 22, 2012 (edited) Ok than i leave flash 2 Desktop scores till decission. So...we will block this Flash Desktops is the first REAL TIME "virtual" desktop manager Here in Hwbot, we do overclocking right in a real storage system like Hdd, ssd, revodrives, and more, but this is real, like a processor or mainboard or a real windows install in the storage. Overclocking is real not virtual Then, Flash 2 Desktop is "not allowed" Edited October 22, 2012 by Sweet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crew Sweet Posted October 22, 2012 Author Crew Share Posted October 22, 2012 In computing, a virtual desktop is a term used with respect to user interfaces, usually within the WIMP paradigm, to describe ways in which the virtual space of a computer's desktop environment is expanded beyond the physical limits of the screen's real estate through the use of software I know that all knows this, but is important remember * - any software or human interaction altering the perceived speed of the benchmark program, tricking it to believe it ran faster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikecdm Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 In 3d benches, when the screen goes black and you get a boosted, we consider that a glitch and an invalid score. How is it any different when we use flash2desktops? The screen goes black for the duration of the Transparent windows test and we get a boosted score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crew Sweet Posted October 22, 2012 Author Crew Share Posted October 22, 2012 (edited) When the screen goes blanck in 3D, its a bug or something else, not a software, instead it would be a cheat in 3D if anyone use a software Like write before because you are using software to improve the score, and is not allowed. These rules were published in 2008 and known to all Guys, its easy, enforce rules that are from 2008 and do not ruin a benchmark #no human interaction or software or change codecs or files in Benchmark#, and this will always be so. Thats all Edited October 22, 2012 by Sweet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moose83 Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Ok, i beginn to delete, but this will took some time But i want to see, that Christian Ney, Pro and so on will all do this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaPaKaH Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 If they don't, we will do it .. so please proceed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moose83 Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Puh, it will last very long thought, and the time to rebencht it, lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crew Sweet Posted October 22, 2012 Author Crew Share Posted October 22, 2012 Ok, i beginn to delete, but this will took some time But i want to see, that Christian Ney, Pro and so on will all do this! Pro (yougpro in XS) is the real judge who will audit each tweak is made and tell if cheat or tweak, he deleted their submissions. Please send to him any tweaks, in which doubt. CN is part of staff, is a moderator, and if have used any cheat, he will block Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moose83 Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 (edited) I know, but he use TW Tweak and TE tweaks too, same for CN;) Edited October 22, 2012 by Sweet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crew Sweet Posted October 22, 2012 Author Crew Share Posted October 22, 2012 I know C. Ney very long time, He is a good overclocker and person, He will block his score, is he has been used any cheats. Sorry i'm in my Job. come back later Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crew Sweet Posted October 22, 2012 Author Crew Share Posted October 22, 2012 (edited) If they don't, we will do it .. so please proceed Yes, thats right Thanks SamOCX. i'm in my job, and I think I should get to work, many have asked me, what are you doing? Edited October 22, 2012 by Sweet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Ney Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Deleted my 3 scores using both TE Tweak and F2D. All my other scores are too old so none of those sorcery tweaks/cheats whatever you wanna call them were used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moose83 Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Lo, only 3 I deleted now 30 scores, and it wont end Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crew Strunkenbold Posted October 22, 2012 Crew Share Posted October 22, 2012 Didnt read through all of this but I assume; -different Internet Explorer settings not allowed? -Bobs tweak allowed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knopflerbruce Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Pro won't have any active pcmark05 subs, he asked for that himself to remain impartial. CN takes care of his own scores, I'll do the same (but never used any of these tweaks, so no scores to block ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knopflerbruce Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Didnt read through all of this but I assume; -different Internet Explorer settings not allowed? -Bobs tweak allowed? If you ask me, the bob tweak seems like a glitch - there's absolutely no reason whatsoever that doing what he did should give a huge boost. However, I'm open for arguments - if someone can actually prove that it does in fact increase the efficiency without glitching the bench, go ahead. Changing options in IE is OK. I don't think there are any settings in that program that makes the WPR test bug out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXSebaSXx Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Didnt read through all of this but I assume; -different Internet Explorer settings not allowed? -Bobs tweak allowed? - I would guess those two would be allowed. Changing IE settings to get a better score (as long as it's done from the IE Options menu) should be OK. Bob's tweak is simply changing your theme from Aero to Classic and then back to Aero... No reason to make that illegal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knopflerbruce Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 - I would guess those two would be allowed. Changing IE settings to get a better score (as long as it's done from the IE Options menu) should be OK. Bob's tweak is simply changing your theme from Aero to Classic and then back to Aero... No reason to make that illegal. Assuming Bob's tweak doesn't cause a bug. I never got it to work. What sort of gains do you see? If the gain is huge, then it's most likely a bug - if the gain is small, then it could be that a newly refreshed theme just works a tad better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moose83 Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Bobs tweak is nice. Run the TW test with your Theme, than change to classic and log off. Then log in and change theme back, thats all;) And Pro does have scores in the rankings, that are now illegal, of course:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moose83 Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 If you ask me, the bob tweak seems like a glitch - there's absolutely no reason whatsoever that doing what he did should give a huge boost. However, I'm open for arguments - if someone can actually prove that it does in fact increase the efficiency without glitching the bench, go ahead. Changing options in IE is OK. I don't think there are any settings in that program that makes the WPR test bug out. IE settings increase the test to 30%, its all about settings ans Registry;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Ney Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Only 30% ? lol u noob I make it 400% with only registry and settings tweaks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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