thebanik Posted July 23, 2010 Posted July 23, 2010 Hiwa did not manage to take away nothing from nobody, he was caught using somebody elses score. This, in my eyes, is not as worst as cheating, and actually getting away with it... And no, I do not believe all Hiwa's submisions are tainted, nor is he the worst. This is not as worse as cheating??? A lot of replies from the top people surprises me - what is ur definition of cheating exactly? he/they tried to take score from a guy who's chips are almost unbeatable, whose resources seem to be infinite to most common overclockers, and why? because hiwa was not able to see the score at the top, and since he cannot beat it on his own, took the score from the best in the business, and this made him satisfy his pride? Oh and please find some of the definition of cheating, and tick mark those which u think all of these guyz did... 1. To deceive by trickery; 2. To deprive by trickery; 3. To mislead; 4. To elude; 5. To act dishonestly; 6. To violate rules deliberately; Quote
Monstru Posted July 23, 2010 Posted July 23, 2010 Yup, I think I have a low standard if I say that cheating (messing with the result) in a live competition and stealing 5000 USD from other guys that were working hard-core for it is much worse then posting a legit score did by some other guy... If there is anything I hate more then cheaters, that would be lack of fairness and injustice... I can understand that people who have no ideea what I am talking about will be surprised by what I am saying, but those who know what I am talking about and still call it a low standard are the worst kind of hypocrites... Quote
thebanik Posted July 23, 2010 Posted July 23, 2010 Yup, I think I have a low standard if I say that cheating (messing with the result) in a live competition and stealing 5000 USD from other guys that were working hard-core for it is much worse then posting a legit score did by some other guy... If there is anything I hate more then cheaters, that would be lack of fairness and injustice... I can understand that people who have no ideea what I am talking about will be surprised by what I am saying, but those who know what I am talking about and still call it a low standard are the worst kind of hypocrites... Even here, these guyz almost did the same thing, they stole the prizes, the name/fame of the guyz who wud/now have won it legitimately. Since one guy got away with it, doesnt mean every1 shud. And even after weeks of the instance u r talking about, no1 was able to pin point the cheat, and as many others pointed out, it was not specifically a cheat but a grey area, If it was so clear a cheat why dont u go ahead and ban the user account now? And for some reason it seems to me, you are so perfectly alright with people using others legitimate score that it seems you have done the same at some point of time... Quote
Monstru Posted July 23, 2010 Posted July 23, 2010 I am not allright with no kind of cheat, trick or foul play. Hiwa and Andre got punished, they deserve it and hopefully they will learn something from this. I am also not allright with people pissing on these guys for what they did, while others did worse and got away with it. Sure, f**k Andre and Hiwa, damn bastards....booo, they suck. Other cases...well..uhm....it's a grey area, you know, it's kindda allright, neah, I mean....maybe it was a tweak....oh well, nothing to see here, carry on....it's ok... This is pathetic. I am not discussing the punishment, they got what they deserve. I am discussing the "angry mob" that is so "outraged" but what these guys did...even though I have seen NONE of you saying a SINGLE word in that other case. This makes me sick. What is so grey about mipmap cheating?!?!?! Quote
Kal-EL Posted July 23, 2010 Posted July 23, 2010 I am not allright with no kind of cheat, trick or foul play. Hiwa and Andre got punished, they deserve it and hopefully they will learn something from this. I am also not allright with people pissing on these guys for what they did, while others did worse and got away with it. Sure, f**k Andre and Hiwa, damn bastards....booo, they suck. Other cases...well..uhm....it's a grey area, you know, it's kindda allright, neah, I mean....maybe it was a tweak....oh well, nothing to see here, carry on....it's ok... This is pathetic. I am not discussing the punishment, they got what they deserve. I am discussing the "angry mob" that is so "outraged" but what these guys did...even though I have seen NONE of you saying a SINGLE word in that other case. This makes me sick. What is so grey about mipmap cheating?!?!?! Whats with the deflection, this incident is seperate from the other. That other subject was brought up, discussed, people had their chance to bitch, moan or PROVE it one way or another. The community spoke at that time, shit was said or not said. Monstru, your words confuse me. On one point you appear to have no problem with what was done and justify it by blaming their actions on someone else getting away with a violation over a year ago. Then you say you are against cheating. Which is it man, either you're cool with sharing your scores with freinds, team mates or your not cool with it. If you did not know Hiwa or the others personally, what would your reaction be then? If I snatched away a bunch of top spots with scores borrowed from Shamino and K|ngp|n, I'm sure you'd have me crucified pretty damned fast cuz you don't know what a very nice man I am. It doesnt do anybody any comfort to see the guys we've looked up to for so long believing that its o.k. to cheat if it fits their personal criteria or if they KNOW someone before them has cheated. Integrity, Respect, Fairness would do us some good. The more you guys defend these crooked actions, the ugglier it gets. Quote
steponz Posted July 23, 2010 Posted July 23, 2010 What would have happened if no one caught it... He would have taken a spot from someone.. and he willingly did that.... That's the worst.. putting himself above all else because he lost board... poor him... I lost 2 and I didn't get there... 2nd board never even gave me a shot.. Not to mention yang took my shot away from me in the xpower comp... I would have won that if my board didn't die.. I could have easily beat hazzan's score, but I wanted to pull off a win on Yang, but the board died before I could... He is just sorry because he got caught... Thats the worst.. his explenations were pathetic and blaming others instead of saying it was him... Remember he edited his posts.... He's the worst in my book and I do not trust any of his results... A cheater is a cheater.... plain and simple... banned................ Quote
[GF]Duke Posted July 23, 2010 Posted July 23, 2010 My 2 cents...I am impressed that HWBot has made a ruling to ban the people that cheated in a competition that didn't even involve HWBot. Its admiralble in a sense. The fact that this score sharing may be deeper than we know disturbs me and hnestly turns me off. I don't know if i even want to compete in this hobby anymore because my trust in the system has been broken. Quote
steponz Posted July 23, 2010 Posted July 23, 2010 With ya on that Duke... Sad that not everyone is like us brotha.. Quote
Monstru Posted July 23, 2010 Posted July 23, 2010 Integrity, Respect, Fairness would do us some good. The more you guys defend these crooked actions, the ugglier it gets. Yes, integrity, respect and fairness would do us all good. For now, there is only integrity, respect and fairness on HWBot side. Andre and Hiwa are banned, nobody is defending their actions. Others however got away with uglier things, and people, just like yourself, seem to defend their crooked actions. With this I have a problem, and let me say that each person that bitches about Hiwa and Andre but has nothing to say in the case of prooven mipmap cheat is a hypocrite and a coward. Just to be clear, this is my personal opinion and has nothing to do with HWBot. Quote
thebanik Posted July 23, 2010 Posted July 23, 2010 Yes, integrity, respect and fairness would do us all good. For now, there is only integrity, respect and fairness on HWBot side. Andre and Hiwa are banned, nobody is defending their actions. Others however got away with uglier things, and people, just like yourself, seem to defend their crooked actions. With this I have a problem, and let me say that each person that bitches about Hiwa and Andre but has nothing to say in the case of prooven mipmap cheat is a hypocrite and a coward. Just to be clear, this is my personal opinion and has nothing to do with HWBot. you are the moderator of hwbot, and you are calling us coward? you want us to bitch about an instance from a year ago from a live event where even the partcipants didnt raise there voice properly??. BUT if you have the guts go ahead and ban him, I cant speak for others but I wont complain even in that case, because yes we still have the ss as a proof..... Quote
Kal-EL Posted July 23, 2010 Posted July 23, 2010 Yes, integrity, respect and fairness would do us all good. For now, there is only integrity, respect and fairness on HWBot side. Andre and Hiwa are banned, nobody is defending their actions. Others however got away with uglier things, and people, just like yourself, seem to defend their crooked actions. With this I have a problem, and let me say that each person that bitches about Hiwa and Andre but has nothing to say in the case of prooven mipmap cheat is a hypocrite and a coward. Just to be clear, this is my personal opinion and has nothing to do with HWBot. I'm not defending anybody's actions, I don't see what goggles you are using that would make you see that. I'm merely sticking to the incident at hand rather than pointing attention somewhere else so that the buddies don't get held accountable for their actions. You want justice for an injustice you percieved in the past, open a thread and draw the communities attention to it again if you are not satisfied. I don't protect or defend people that are selfish asshats willing to screw over the next honest hardworking guy with a dream. Heck, I'll even jump in and say "ASSHAT" if its reasonably verified. If you'd rather ignore the Andre/Hiwa thing, thats your business. The whole thing is upsetting but more upsetting when people want to ignore or place guilt elsewhere when its right up in your face. Maybe I shouldnt give a rat's ass and just fold the cards, chalk it up to everyone not having any morals, maybe even start bending, breaking, ignoring the rules cuz I'm a popular guy, bullshit. Thats what alot of asshats hope will happen, people just stfu and walk away helpless. Why pick now as the time to talk about the other incident that happend so long ago? Rediculous obvious why, a special needs chimp can figure that out. I agree the bitching is a bit long in the tooth but the whole thing affects different people "differently". Eventually it'll fade as all things do. Quote
Monstru Posted July 23, 2010 Posted July 23, 2010 (edited) I am stating my point of view as an overclocker, not an HWBot moderator, as CLEARLY have stated above. And yes, from my point of views, this is hypocrisy at it's best that is taking place right now. As far as HWBot is concerned, Hiwa and Andre are banned, and I do not think that HWBot is the OC Police that banns people for what they do in live events. Like it or not, none of you were booing back then because something was taken from the people who deserve it. But you are very, very keen to throw the rotten eggs in Hiwa and Andre now. Andre is the rich guys none of you can stand. hiwa is the guy with attitude none of you can stand. Both of them TOP 10 overclockers, unlike the guys throwing rocks at them...But god forbidd you would say anything about your beloved "buddies" that cheat in live competitions...This is what I do not think it's right... Edited July 23, 2010 by Monstru Quote
Kal-EL Posted July 23, 2010 Posted July 23, 2010 I am stating my point of view as an overclocker, not an HWBot moderator, as CLEARLY have stated above. And yes, from my point of views, this is hypocrisy at it's best that is taking place right now. As far as HWBot is concerned, Hiwa and Andre are banned, and I do not think that HWBot is the OC Police that banns people for what they do in live events. Like it or not, none of you were booing back then because something was taken from the people who deserve it. But you are very, very keen to throw the rotten eggs in Hiwa and Andre now. Andre is the rich guys none of you can stand. hiwa is the guy with attitude none of you can stand. But god forbidd you would say anything about your beloved "buddies" that cheat in live competitions...This is what I do not think it's right... I don't have any buddies in live competitions man, I'm not popular like you, just regular guy, Hiwa was a cool guy in my book, Andre was a lil full of shit at times but I respected his numbers. How he spends his money is his trip. I didn't throw rotten eggs at Hiwa or Andre, they did that themselves but I guess you can't GET that at all. Several people on their own called, contacted Andre Yang and aquired FAKE benchmark results from him and then submitted those FAKE results in a contest for prizes. Either Andre is the "Known" facilitator of cheating or this isn't cheating at all. Maybe in another universe? Those are the rotten eggs my man. Boggles my mind how your veiwpoints on this matter are so off base. You say you don't speak for hwbot but brother you inherantly do speak for them because with great power comes great responsibility. I think you're just pissed off cuz your friends got nabbed doing something that was so commonplace, it wasn't wrong at all. Maybe you referring to someone else being a hypocrat, I know its not me. Quote
Monstru Posted July 23, 2010 Posted July 23, 2010 You got me so wrong man... I am totally pised at Andre and Hiwa for doing this, they should have knowen better then pulling a lame act like this. And yeah, the completely flucked it up for themselves. That is not my problem man, my problem is this scene slowly going down because of everybody, and I mean everybody. The manufacturers just try to get their own way, known names cheat in online finals, now these guys completly mess up in an on-line qualifiers, and to top that off, the crowd quickly puts them to the steak and kills them with rocks. Fkin sweet man, this is the overclocking I felt in love with years ago...That gives me a warm fuzzy feeling inside...Of course I am pissed off, the difference is that I may know more things and I am more disgusted with all this then you are... My first post on this thread has one simple reason man - I am sad. I am sad to see good overclockers going down to this level in order to achieve...I am not sure what, probably just personal vengeance. This is not something that makes me happy. And I am sad that others did it and got away with that. And I am sad that nobody seems to care about that, I mean nobody seems to care about fairness and keeping the sport clean overall, just about linching these two guys. Fluck it, let's kill them with rocks, I am right besides you, but let's kill the others that cheat too, not only these two guys Quote
Kal-EL Posted July 23, 2010 Posted July 23, 2010 You got me so wrong man... I am totally pised at Andre and Hiwa for doing this, they should have knowen better then pulling a lame act like this. And yeah, the completely flucked it up for themselves. That is not my problem man, my problem is this scene slowly going down because of everybody, and I mean everybody. The manufacturers just try to get their own way, known names cheat in online finals, now these guys completly mess up in an on-line qualifiers, and to top that off, the crowd quickly puts them to the steak and kills them with rocks. Fkin sweet man, this is the overclocking I felt in love with years ago...That gives me a warm fuzzy feeling inside...Of course I am pissed off, the difference is that I may know more things and I am more disgusted with all this then you are... My first post on this thread has one simple reason man - I am sad. I am sad to see good overclockers going down to this level in order to achieve...I am not sure what, probably just personal vengeance. This is not something that makes me happy. And I am sad that others did it and got away with that. And I am sad that nobody seems to care about that, I mean nobody seems to care about fairness and keeping the sport clean overall, just about linching these two guys. Fluck it, let's kill them with rocks, I am right besides you, but let's kill the others that cheat too, not only these two guys I hear yah man, sad, angry, dissapointed, embarrassed, sympathetic, offended, all of the above. Rocks, poop, daggers, swords, whatever you want to throw at the found out offenders that make this sport dirty, I'm with yah. Long as we not throwing flowers at them. Then we all hug like brothers and sisters and move on to making things better. Quote
packet Posted July 23, 2010 Posted July 23, 2010 the level of deception with this has been a bombshell Monstru people are just venting and its healthy to vent.... i looked up to both Hiwa and Andre. Quote
Jor3llBR/Elano Posted July 23, 2010 Author Posted July 23, 2010 I see the scores are still up, so if I follow this correctly HWbot says it's ok to share hardware among your teamates as long as it's sold?! This is ridiculous I've been always told the contrary. Same CPU will be #1,2,3 on the same 2D bench like Hiwa and Peppo's results. Good to know this new interpretation of the rule by Hwbot. Quote
Jor3llBR/Elano Posted July 23, 2010 Author Posted July 23, 2010 Link pls, and they are gone. Results made with Hiwa's golden cpu: http://hwbot.org/community/submission/1027255_pippo369_wprime_32m_core_i5_670_7sec_235ms http://hwbot.org/community/submission/1027258_pippo369_wprime_1024m_core_i5_670_3min_52sec_406ms Hiwa's quote: ...he asked to me the chip to test some OC and review his board, i didn't use the chip anymore caz i passed to gulftown so i sold it to him, it's happend some weeks ago guys.he benched some pi and pifast and then he benched wprime. BTW as i said before the sold to him for the review but in freetimes he make some score. and it's not selling/buying SCORE for money guys, maybe u say he is your teamamate and you can't sell hardware in same team, OK you are right, BUT cpu sold for the review and his fun notthing else , delete the scores is it's illegal sell hardware for the review to my ES teammate. BUT please guys don't check all scores around to find a new story... Quote
diezel Posted July 23, 2010 Posted July 23, 2010 they deserve it but lets not kill them . maybe the give the prijs away to the nr 2 Quote
Splave Posted July 23, 2010 Posted July 23, 2010 Link pls, and they are gone. hwbot is a great seriously Quote
rickss69 Posted July 23, 2010 Posted July 23, 2010 they deserve it but lets not kill them .maybe the give the prijs away to the nr 2 That's as good as a reward in my book... Quote
|ron Posted July 23, 2010 Posted July 23, 2010 So Monstru, apart from that sad story about hiwa, andre and the others, if someone sells hardware to a teammate and both them submit scores (without deleting the worst result and keeping only the best in the various benchmarks), the mods will delete the submissions without punishing the seller or the buyer or both of them? Just asking to make me a clear idea on how the rule works, thanks. Quote
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