Massman Posted January 10, 2008 Posted January 10, 2008 My suggestions.The "one result per CPUs (for 2D tests) or GPUs (for 3D tests)" rule, I believe it might be better to restrict one result per CPUs or GPUs, no matter who gets the points. In case of benching with lended hardware from another hwbot member, we should define the owner of the CPUs for 2D tests or the GPUs for 3D tests. For example I allow someone else to run SPi 1m with my CPU and upload the score he/she got. In the above case, the owner can upload any other 2D tests, except SPi 1m. After the other guy deletes his score, SPi 1m is open again. In case of disagreement between the owner and the other person, both scores should go down. Rules that stands above all other rules: "Do not upload results you have not achieved yourself" . So if someone else benches your CPU, technically you are the owner, so you should upload the result. But that's not allowed as you have not done the benching. The "In multi settings, use different mobos and at least one different CPU (for 2D tests) or GPU (for 3D tests)" rule I propose the above "multi settings" rule. For example we may give three of our video cards to someone else to bench Quad SLI on their mobo and we may also bench our cards for tri-SLI on our own mobo. We both can upload results. Restriction on the SLI/CF-thing is not a bad idea, really. I'll have to think of a way to formulate it to make it controlable. Thanks for the input, mate.
mariosalice Posted January 10, 2008 Posted January 10, 2008 Rules that stands above all other rules: "Do not upload results you have not achieved yourself" . So if someone else benches your CPU, technically you are the owner, so you should upload the result. But that's not allowed as you have not done the benching. Restriction on the SLI/CF-thing is not a bad idea, really. I'll have to think of a way to formulate it to make it controlable. Thanks for the input, mate. My suggestion was to keep only the above two rules and trash the rest (I mean the rules on post 151). This way we may bench with a CPU we did not buy. After all you do not care who is rich or not but who benches a CPU or GPU. On the other hand we do not get multiple results and points from one CPU. It might be easy to add a tick about the owner.. Another Hwbot member owns the main CPU (or GPU) (0). [owner]
darthtony Posted January 10, 2008 Posted January 10, 2008 Why can't I lend my cpu to others?(my team) I cant understand!(why is that rule?) Question:I can't post multiple results of one session ONLY if I bench with others? Let's say that I bench with my friend, with HIS hardware.(according to the rules, the results should be uploaded to his account) But if we both agree that the results are published to my account? Why should'nt I upload them? In conclusion why don't you allow hw sharing?
Massman Posted January 10, 2008 Posted January 10, 2008 An example has been given in this thread: For instance, do you think the following situation should be approved? You have an insane E2180, which exceeds all other cpu's except mine. I have a golden chip which runs about 150MHz faster than yours. There's no problem, you're second and beaten by a better cpu. BUT, today I have invited all my OCTB-friends and I will let them, one by one, bench the cpu on their system with their tweaks, in total the 19 members of my team. Remember: it's their skill which is being tested. So the day after the benching, all upload their score of the E2180 and turns out ... you're not 2nd anymore, you moved to place 21th, having no points at all (loss will be: 7 benches x 10 points = 70 points). Will you still be satisfied by the fact that "all used their own system, just their own skill"?
knopflerbruce Posted January 10, 2008 Posted January 10, 2008 An example has been given in this thread: I think he means that his friend is not a HWBot member, or at least doesn't use that particular CPU to get points in 2d benchmarks. IMO that's OK, as that particular CPU is not getting points for, say, 2 spi1m runs by 2 people.
hipro5 Posted January 10, 2008 Author Posted January 10, 2008 So Massman as you say, I could lend MY CPU to my teamates to bench with their VGAs BUT upload ONLY the 3D Benhies right?...
Massman Posted January 10, 2008 Posted January 10, 2008 Okay, but what if that person decides to join HWBot after two weeks? How can we be sure that person is not on HWBot?
hipro5 Posted January 10, 2008 Author Posted January 10, 2008 So, I CAN'T share MY CPU nor MY VGAs to ANY of my teamates right?... EDIT: Though your above post confuses me a bit....
o polonos Posted January 10, 2008 Posted January 10, 2008 So, I CAN'T share MY CPU nor MY VGAs to ANY of my teamates right?... EDIT: Though your above post confuses me a bit.... You can share your CPU for 3D and VGA'S for 2D ( but in the second i can't see the reason to do that)
mariosalice Posted January 10, 2008 Posted January 10, 2008 Okay, but what if that person decides to join HWBot after two weeks? How can we be sure that person is not on HWBot? He has no right to post the specific benches he aloud his friend to bench, unless the uploaded results are deleted. I gave a similar example about this. Remember "one result per CPUs (for 2D tests) or GPUs (for 3D tests)" And again It might be easy to add a tick about the owner..Another Hwbot member owns the main CPU (or GPU) (0). [owner] So the new member has no right to bench the same benchmarks with his CPU.
mariosalice Posted January 10, 2008 Posted January 10, 2008 jesus christ what a lot of garbage in this thread. Is it so hard to follow common sense when it comes down to hardware "sharing"? if you own a VGA card/CPU and sell it to somebody else, you can keep your scores and the new owner can submit scores to HWbot under his account. that's about the majority of the submits now, hardware bought from friends or shops; the exception to the rule is SHARING (lending) hardware to another person and that person submitting results with the hardware he DOES NOT OWN to his account. How hard is it to "understand" that little rule. even after #165 posts some don't get it? I agree with you about all this garbage.Anyone can say that he bought the hardware in sharing hardware cases. This true actually since sharing is some kind of an exchange. You get and you give. Then there is no reason to enforce ownership rules and you agree on that with me. Anyway the ownership rule as posted by the mods forbids any user from getting hwboints in case he is not the owner of the hardware. So since someone sells his hardware he should also delete his scores, according to the garbage logic.
darthtony Posted January 10, 2008 Posted January 10, 2008 An example has been given in this thread: Yeah, but let's say that all of the results are posted to your account, what's the difference?(at your example) Question:I can't post multiple results of one session ONLY if I bench with others? I think that you should reconsider and update the rule, beacause, as mariosalice said, anyone can say that he bought the hw from a previous user. Or that it was a coincidence.(having the same hardware) You have no accurate way to verify that the results came from different hw. Let's open a thread abou this and propose ideas
mariosalice Posted January 10, 2008 Posted January 10, 2008 HWBot relies on its users for moderation..... regarding Unseen's CPU scores, those should have never been touched, when Unseen benchmarked the CPU it was in his possession and ownership; if you are going to try to block all scores from CPUs previously "owned" by anybody else, we can close the site, since all of them are owned originally by Intel/AMD/* Well users do not know the rule about ownership. You don't know it either I think. I agree that Unseen's CPU scores shouldn't come down. Though according to those strange rules we see lately they are illegal since the "owner" was and still is Hipro5. Then as I said the owner actually is the one that holds the CPU-GPU the moment of the bench. It is an exchange. There are so many World records done with lended material that the ownership rule looks really strange. On the other hand Intel is not a hwbot member and doesn't cound as an owner. The last month lots of HOT members benched for many many hours. Our main effort the last month in one of our forums was to give a chance to all members to meet each other and to exchange ideas. We called it HOT brainstorming. This includes benching in places with extreme cooling facilities, which is our main goal. Of course, when you see lots of submitted scores it is apparent that some of them will look similar.
T_M Posted January 11, 2008 Posted January 11, 2008 You have no accurate way to verify that the results came from different hw. Your posts sounds really negative man. HWB primarily relies on the honesty of the users, that is no secret, and massman has written already many times a good response for this.
hipro5 Posted January 11, 2008 Author Posted January 11, 2008 .....the exception to the rule is SHARING (lending) hardware to another person and that person submitting results with the hardware he DOES NOT OWN to his account.How hard is it to "understand" that little rule. even after #165 posts some don't get it? I will stay on this and ask once again (yes I will ask EVERY modarator in hwbot ) Can I lend my CPU to other users in my team to bench 3D (not 2D) with THEIR VGAs?.... ALSO a tip that a user in our forum had (apparently this user doesn't Overclock at all I think ) RENTAL IS LEAGAL.... So IF I RENT my hardware to a user, AUTOMATICALY HE IS THE OWNER of my VGAs (for example) and he could do them whatever he wishes.....HE will be the OWNER LEAGALY for the period of time that he has RENT my stuff..... You have to think about that too cuz it's LEAGAL....
Massman Posted January 11, 2008 Posted January 11, 2008 ALSO a tip that a user in our forum had (apparently this user doesn't Overclock at all I think )RENTAL IS LEAGAL.... So IF I RENT my hardware to a user, AUTOMATICALY HE IS THE OWNER of my VGAs (for example) and he could do them whatever he wishes.....HE will be the OWNER LEAGALY for the period of time that he has RENT my stuff..... You have to think about that too cuz it's LEAGAL.... HEY !!! As far as I know (and have said) lending and renting hardware is illegal on HWBOT. Why are you guys trying to bend the rules? It seems to me that everyone understands the rule besides HOT? Why??? Lending/renting hardware is not allowed. Did you lend E. or G. your VGA, yes or no? I can't make this even more simple guys. Even the situation with Unseen is clear as water: he gets the cpu from a magazine to write a review => he's allowed to post results. Hipro gets a cpu from intel => he's allowed to post results. 18 pages of ramblings ....
SF3D Posted January 11, 2008 Posted January 11, 2008 Hipro- Why? Don't they have money or why you have to "rent" your stuff to other members? For a bencher like me this sounds really ridiculous, cause I have to pay everything myself. OCTeamFinland broke up, because some members didn't want to be in a team, where some users did this hardware sharing. Now we have Team Finland and this HW sharing rule is in use. Easy and it is working perfectly. Every member in our team accepts this rule without exceptions. Maybe we just think some things differently in here..
hipro5 Posted January 11, 2008 Author Posted January 11, 2008 Hey Massman take it easy M8..... I - in purpose - said the word "rent" JUST to clarify any newer incomes from users that will think to do so considering that is leagal to the outer world..... Clearing things up is that in hwbot lending OR renting hardware to ANY of your TEAMATES IS ILLEGAL.... I DID NOT lend OR rent MY VGAs to any of the guys you say...... I give ONLY giorgos th. ONLY my VGAs that I HAVE NEVER UPLOAD ANY RESAULT WITH THEM ON hwbot..... They are my spare ones that are on air and I HAVE NEVER USED THEM to get points from hwbot...... Is it clear now?...... Now a same question to you as I did to jmke..... Can I lend my CPU to other users in my team to bench 3D (not 2D) with THEIR VGAs?.... .
hipro5 Posted January 11, 2008 Author Posted January 11, 2008 Hipro- Why? Don't they have money or why you have to "rent" your stuff to other members? For a bencher like me this sounds really ridiculous, cause I have to pay everything myself. OCTeamFinland broke up, because some members didn't want to be in a team, where some users did this hardware sharing. Now we have Team Finland and this HW sharing rule is in use. Easy and it is working perfectly. Every member in our team accepts this rule without exceptions. Maybe we just think some things differently in here.. I asure you that WE do the same here.......and IF I personaly "catch" anyone of us doing "strange things" I will block him and his scores.... I said the example for "renting" above coz we may hear it in the future in here so we HAVE to clear some things up from now...... EDIT: Now that you are here too..... Can I lend my CPU to other users in my team to bench 3D (not 2D) with THEIR VGAs?.... .
Massman Posted January 11, 2008 Posted January 11, 2008 I DID NOT lend OR rent MY VGAs to any of the guys you say......I give ONLY giorgos th. ONLY my VGAs that I HAVE NEVER UPLOAD ANY RESAULT WITH THEM ON hwbot..... They are my spare ones that are on air and I HAVE NEVER USED THEM to get points from hwbot...... Is it clear now?...... So technically you're sharing right?
hipro5 Posted January 11, 2008 Author Posted January 11, 2008 So technically you're sharing right? NO......Why?......Because there have been NO RESAULTS BY ME ON hwbot from THEM.... So I DIDN'T "share" anything that has PROVIDED resaults on hwbot by ME..... Speaking "technically".... What about my question above now?.... .
Massman Posted January 11, 2008 Posted January 11, 2008 To put it out in results: Someone else, of your team, benching with YOUR GPU and therefor hardware sharing http://www.hwbot.org/result.do?resultId=679384 http://www.hwbot.org/result.do?resultId=676995 http://www.hwbot.org/result.do?resultId=679524 http://www.hwbot.org/result.do?resultId=679525 http://www.hwbot.org/result.do?resultId=676968 http://www.hwbot.org/result.do?resultId=679526 http://www.hwbot.org/result.do?resultId=676965 http://www.hwbot.org/result.do?resultId=679390 http://www.hwbot.org/result.do?resultId=676974 Someone else, of your team, benching with YOUR CPU and therefor hardware sharing http://www.hwbot.org/result.do?resultId=677015 http://www.hwbot.org/result.do?resultId=676992 http://www.hwbot.org/result.do?resultId=676961 http://www.hwbot.org/result.do?resultId=679477 http://www.hwbot.org/result.do?resultId=679457 Correct me if I'm wrong
F117 Posted January 11, 2008 Posted January 11, 2008 Hi there....i could like to make 1 question.... If i can not afford buying top hardware staff, but i am a good bencher (know how to mod, tweaks etch) how i suppose to get some points?! could you plz give me a solution to that? i only can Lend/rent vga of cpu from friends outsite hwbot you mean ? :-S if my teamate doesnt uses this hw for bench i CANT lend it? thank you
Massman Posted January 11, 2008 Posted January 11, 2008 http://www.hwbot.org/result.do?resultId=677872 http://www.hwbot.org/result.do?resultId=677893 http://www.hwbot.org/result.do?resultId=677888'>http://www.hwbot.org/result.do?resultId=677888 http://www.hwbot.org/result.do?resultId=677888 http://www.hwbot.org/result.do?resultId=677868 http://www.hwbot.org/result.do?resultId=677869 http://www.hwbot.org/result.do?resultId=677858 http://www.hwbot.org/result.do?resultId=677853 These are not done with your CPU?
hipro5 Posted January 11, 2008 Author Posted January 11, 2008 http://www.hwbot.org/result.do?resultId=677872http://www.hwbot.org/result.do?resultId=677893 http://www.hwbot.org/result.do?resultId=677888'>http://www.hwbot.org/result.do?resultId=677888 http://www.hwbot.org/result.do?resultId=677888 http://www.hwbot.org/result.do?resultId=677868 http://www.hwbot.org/result.do?resultId=677869 http://www.hwbot.org/result.do?resultId=677858 http://www.hwbot.org/result.do?resultId=677853 These are not done with your CPU? Which of ALL THEM?......
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