RKDxpress Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 Why no win 8, 8.1 in so many benchmarks? What going to happen for win 10? I'd hate to dig out Vista as xp is done. Thanks for the info. RKDxpress. Quote
Mr.Scott Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 LOL. Vista is done too, but XP is still a viable OS for benching. RTC skew in 8, 8.1, and 10. Here. http://forum.hwbot.org/showthread.php?t=82925 Quote
RKDxpress Posted January 5, 2015 Author Posted January 5, 2015 Thanks MR Scott. Guess I'll be looking into dual boot xp. Quote
zeropluszero Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 LOL. Vista is done too Thats not entirely true. look at 3dmark05 Quote
Mr.Scott Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 Thats not entirely true.look at 3dmark05 I meant in the sense that it's unsupported now. Like XP, it still has it's merits for benching. Quote
Massman Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 We're trying to find a solution for 8/8.1/10 Quote
KaRtA Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 I do hope there is a solution soon. Running Benchmarks off very outdated systems can only work for so long. Could it be viable for 8/8.1/10 to show a wintimer shot in the screen shots to prove that the clock timing is correct? Quote
Guest TheMadDutchDude Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 I don't think we'll need to worry about it not working for a while yet. As long as there's an IDE mode, for example, you can use XP for some of the 2D benchmarks. Let's face it, IDE isn't going anywhere any time soon. Quote
RagingCain Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 We're trying to find a solution for 8/8.1/10 3DMark only allows valid submissions if using HPET, I found on Win 8/8.1 I have proof under my 3DMark profile if you would like me to grab those. My application WOLF @ http://www.bytemedev.com/wolf, allows users to specify RTC/HPET as the clock in Windows 8/8.1/10 (as long as the motherboard has HPET/RTC enabled too.) It's very simple to enable. Quote
RagingCain Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 Needs .NET, no OCer will use it It's very well programmed I assure you. On Windows 8, 8.1, .NET is integrated. Despite which: bcdedit /set useplatformclock true Quote
GENiEBEN Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 It's very well programmed I assure you. On Windows 8, 8.1, .NET is integrated. Despite which: bcdedit /set useplatformclock true Trust me, a bench OS needs .NET like we need the plague. You can make a tool to activate HPET using the command you mentioned above. One small problem though. You will use bcedit /enum to check if hardwareclock = true, right? Except it will be flagged true the moment you run the "bcdedit /set useplatformclock true" command, yet in reality it's only in effect after a reboot. Now good luck making that user-friendly AND tamper-proof. Quote
RagingCain Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 Trust me, a bench OS needs .NET like we need the plague.You can make a tool to activate HPET using the command you mentioned above. One small problem though. You will use bcedit /enum to check if hardwareclock = true, right? Except it will be flagged true the moment you run the "bcdedit /set useplatformclock true" command, yet in reality it's only in effect after a reboot. Now good luck making that user-friendly AND tamper-proof. It isn't tamper proof necessary, the work has been done by 3DMark, it detects during the benchmark if you are actually using an RTC or HPET clock vs. Windows. Results submitted are not valid unless it, itself, detects the RTC, HPET in use. I tested this out last night myself. I merely provided a tool that quickly allows users to enable it, but the command line works just as well. Quote
RagingCain Posted January 15, 2015 Posted January 15, 2015 RTC/HPET detection has been there in 3DMark since September 2013: http://www.futuremark.com/support/systeminfo SystemInfo Version 4.20Updated September 4, 2013 Updated CPUID module for improved hardware detection Updated AMD ADL library for improved compatibility with latest hardware Improved hardware scan speed by about 50% Added Windows RTC clock verification, results with inaccurate time measurement can now be rejected on 3DMark.com Quote
Massman Posted January 18, 2015 Posted January 18, 2015 3DMark only allows valid submissions if using HPET, I found on Win 8/8.1 I have proof under my 3DMark profile if you would like me to grab those. My application WOLF @ http://www.bytemedev.com/wolf, allows users to specify RTC/HPET as the clock in Windows 8/8.1/10 (as long as the motherboard has HPET/RTC enabled too.) It's very simple to enable. Thanks for the link to this application. The main concern is that we want to make it so that people with Win8/8.1/10 can bench without having to worry about the HPET RTC. As genieben mentioned: it's still possible to make it look like HPET was used, if RTC was used. Do you think it's possible to develop a tool that would serve as a screenshot generator, but also has an online connection checking if HPET or RTC is used? So if a user wants to make a screenshot of the verification, the app checks the timing of the system online to see if the system time equals "real" time. Or even require the app to be open during the benchmark run or so ... Quote
RagingCain Posted January 19, 2015 Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) Thanks for the link to this application. The main concern is that we want to make it so that people with Win8/8.1/10 can bench without having to worry about the HPET RTC. As genieben mentioned: it's still possible to make it look like HPET was used, if RTC was used. Do you think it's possible to develop a tool that would serve as a screenshot generator, but also has an online connection checking if HPET or RTC is used? So if a user wants to make a screenshot of the verification, the app checks the timing of the system online to see if the system time equals "real" time. Or even require the app to be open during the benchmark run or so ... I didn't realize the 3DMark 2013 was foolable to use or not use HPET/RTC. As I discovered, none of my results submitted were valid until I fully enabled HPET, and only HPET. Which correlates to the last post I made. I suppose if you gave me a list of desirable information, I could create an application with the data visible. Full (non-hybrid) HPET / RTC frequency is very different than soft clocks. It should be readily noticeable if it is on or off. Include some timestamp, how long the application has been running etc. I also don't know if it is possible to disable functionality in real time (i.e. it requires a reboot I think to disable it.) I suppose after a certain amount of "evidence" one should give the user the benefit of the doubt and once users start submitting results you can do similar system comparisons to weed out the shifty users. I would recommend separating results though. Windows 8.x vs. Windows 8.x for points. Since .NET is installed by default on Windows 8+ machines, I will make it 4.0 compatible, requiring only whats installed on the system. If you have any questions on what would be looked at: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/dn553408(v=vs.85).aspx This also seems to be the same issue in Windows 10, so something has to be done or benchers will have no choice but stick to Windows 7 forever. Edited January 28, 2015 by RagingCain Quote
Massman Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 If we'd have an application that could detect what the setting was at boot and if it has been changed since, we'd already be a long way to a solution. I think for the moment the biggest problem is that it is apparently possible to: boot with RTC run bench with RTC switch to HPET in registry Because the switch only applies next reboot and the registry says "it's HPET", any application would indicate HPET was used even if RTC was used. So an application that could tell us with 100% certainty what the active reference clock is, would already help. Quote
RagingCain Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 I will look into it No definitive timeline at the moment, but shouldn't take me long. Quote
RagingCain Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Direct Download (from my Website) VirusTotal Scan This is coming from OS/Kernel. No registry setting trickery. Quote
Massman Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 Mine looks quite different (Sony Vaio Notebook, Win8.1, Haswell based) Quote
RagingCain Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 That's because I built it on my lunch break at work. Windows 7 UI, with Aero disabled is how I like my system. I had no Windows 8 machines at work to screenshot. Sorry. This is my home computer, Windows 8.1 UI. Note: If you are talking about it missing the other data, you simply click Start Monitoring. Quote
RagingCain Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) Harmonic (x64) v0.002 - Direct Download (from my Website) VirusTotal Scan GUI modifications, a little less cumbersome, HPET Usage setting on boot up displayed, Enable and Disable HPET/RTC button. Edited January 21, 2015 by RagingCain Quote
steponz Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 Guys.. what about checking the registry timestamp to see when that setting was modified? that way there is no load put on by a monitoring program. Quote
steponz Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 Nevermind.. found a way to manipulate it easily it seems. Quote
GENiEBEN Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 Please no .NET, just have patience. I'll have time tomorrow for coding. Quote
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