Points from E.S. hardware

[TASOS]

Pieter, when you mention competitions here, I have a question. How do we justify the fact that on hwbot organized comps employees of hardware vendors and manufacturers are ruled out, which mostly have access to ES anyway, which is ruled out, but that employees of distributors who can bin hundreds of retail cpus for free as well as they have early unlimited access to all hardware including expensive vgas and so on can participate? It does not touch me directly as you know, but when we talk about justice and logic in rules like discussed here on the ES matter, I would be interested to hear your opinion on this as well

 

Agreed, there will always be differences in access to hardware and ressources, this is no problem but a fact, what you can try is to lower the impact it makes on perception and you can also try to diminish impact on some of the rankings and competitions. The way to do so is difficult, I agree, and the limit between employee and excess support is floating and hard to define. Nontheless there have to be made decisions now and in the future about this and I wish a lot of luck and wisdom to the staff to do this. But the question I had was not answered, why are employees of vendors out and employees of distributors with better retail access accepted at comps. It is a bit weird for me if I see this and only judge it by hardware access, of course I am aware of the advantages you can have if you get special bios or prebinned vga by vendor. Well, we will see...

 

So you want to state that there are lots of people who get pretested retail cpus in bunnyextraction masses from vendors and don´t work for vendors or manufacturers or distributors? That´s indeed new to me and matches no ocer I talked to, on vgas I know that samples are sent out that are often much better than retails.

And I did not talk about early unlimited access at distributors, I talked about employees, which is different from support, with unlimited access for example to cpus - I think this is a difference, and for me it leaves a bad taste for example when people who pay for their binning or have to make stunts for it have to compete with people with unlimited cpu access at a competition. If you are full time employee in hardware business I see no difference if you work a inhouse clocker for asus or alternate

 

 

Thank god !!!

There's common sense after all.

:celebration:

 

Hurray !!!

 

All this time , i thought i was loosing my mind ? (crazy) ?

Thought i was running alone ... and finishing second

[Massman]

// PERSONAL OPINION BELOW //

 

There are a lot of misconceptions on how seeding and support really works behind the scenes. They come mostly from ignorance and misinformation, but are the source of some of people's frustrations. I've heard people say K|ngp|n gets to bin "hundreds of GPUs" from Nvidia and when you ask them how they know, they reply "because it's obvious" or "because that's how it goes". The amount of silly stories I hear even inside the industry is mind-blowing at times, and it certainly does not help.

 

The lack of transparency about seeding and support fuels speculation and frustration amongst the general community. The whole notion of "unlimited access" does not correspond with reality, yet it is probably the most used phrase in this entire discussion. It is as senseless as the debate about engineering samples as far as I'm concerned, because as much as people enjoy hating on engineering samples if a vendor really wants to promote their overclocking capabilities, they can make any part look like a retail part. Heck, for AMD CPUs it's not even possible to know if the sample is ES or retail!

 

What I would like to see is the people who are in the position of leadership in the broader overclocking community (but not involved with HWBOT) to step forward and share their vision on overclocking that deals with the elements of reality looking forward. I rarely see or hear someone lay our a realistic plan for overclocking and its community stretching two or three years in to the future. I think that would be the start of a fruitful discussion.

 

// STATEMENT AS HWBOT STAFF BELOW //

 

Allowing people who work in the distribution industry (="stores") to submit to competitions and disallowing people who work in the manufacturing industry (="vendors") is an arbitrary decision. There is as much arguments in favor of banning the "warehouse overclockers" as there are opposed to it. In that case, there's no point in upsetting a small minority just because a large majority feels the need to outlaw them.

Edited March 31, 2015 by Massman

[websmile]

I can live with this decision, it was time to make it clear though what is motivation to this, tbh I don´t think this discussion will be over though, it will come back in the future if amount of inhouse clockers at shops or distributors keeps on rising- about unlimited access, when you can bin hundreds of i7s for example because shop you work for offers tray and especially offers pretested overclocked rigs, how would you call this? Small amount you can easily bin privately?

Edited March 31, 2015 by websmile

[der8auer]

I can live with this decision, it was time to make it clear though what is motivation to this, tbh I don´t think this discussion will be over though, it will come back in the future if amount of inhouse clockers at shops or distributors keeps on rising- about unlimited access, when you can bin hundreds of i7s for example because shop you work for offers tray and especially offers pretested overclocked rigs, how would you call this? Small amount you can easily bin privately?

 

// PERSONAL OPINION BELOW //

 

There are a lot of misconceptions on how seeding and support really works behind the scenes. They come mostly from ignorance and misinformation, but are the source of some of people's frustrations. I've heard people say K|ngp|n gets to bin "hundreds of GPUs" from Nvidia and when you ask them how they know, they reply "because it's obvious" or "because that's how it goes". The amount of silly stories I hear even inside the industry is mind-blowing at times, and it certainly does not help.

 

^^^^^^this

[websmile]

Sure, Roman, and when ocuk sells 40 chips alone advertised at 1,275v 5ghz win7 and 6,4ghz 01 handbinned by overclocker you say ^^^this - bs², I wonder when you last binned for a cpu of modern architecure if you don´t know how much cpus you have to bin to get this and take in on top that best samples are not sold but used for benching... obviously it is ok to ignore reality when you are in a certain position, sad story^^

[rsnubje]

As far as I know, 8pack openly tells in his rig video's that he is binning cpu's by the dozens for his line of rigs. I can imagine that he takes all the outstanding ones home and tests them further.

 

But as for that discussion, it's only a few that have this kind of access though.

[saint19]

I do not see correct with the normal users (that doesn't have access to ES chips) permit points with those chips outside of the Elite league.

 

Even, if you ask me...I have a 4790K ES and my options are ask to me moved to the Elite or wait until next generation and upload the results. I prefer wait for just a simple reason...that ES chip arrived to my hands in just a "lucky" moment and I am pretty sure that will be very difficult (or almost impossible) that I can get another one (same or different model or generation).

 

While I agree with you that that move to the Elite isn't an option, I also think that if you have 1..2 or more ES chips is because in some point (or in some way) you have access to those chips (directly or bought from eBay). In that point, if you consider buy ES chips while know that ES are only accepted for Elite, you also have to consider than that would not be fair for other users (normal users that always use retail) and that compete against users with the "same" possibilities is the fair for all.

[Guest TheMadDutchDude]

ES chips are never meant to leave those who get given them. They are still Intel's property (or any other manufacturer for that matter, unless otherwise stated when you receive said item) and therefore you're selling something that doesn't legally belong to you, which is breaking the law.

[Mr.Scott]

ES chips are never meant to leave those who get given them. They are still Intel's property (or any other manufacturer for that matter, unless otherwise stated when you receive said item) and therefore you're selling something that doesn't legally belong to you, which is breaking the law.

Yes, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

[saint19]

ES chips are never meant to leave those who get given them. They are still Intel's property (or any other manufacturer for that matter, unless otherwise stated when you receive said item) and therefore you're selling something that doesn't legally belong to you, which is breaking the law.

 

As Mr. Scott says, never not always mean never.

 

You can find on eBay 775 ES chips, they are still Intel's property and while you, me and many people know that...at this point an user looking for a 775 chip for get a "homework" rig doesn't care that.

Edited April 9, 2015 by saint19

[MaddMutt]

How about someone just dropping in on the Rookie League with Opteron's or Xeon's and walks away with all (3) THREE stages.

How is my 4 core/8 thread 2600, 3770, 4790, ECt, ECt, going to compete against a 10 core /20 thread Xeon whether it be retail or es.

The real bad news would start when you found out that he/she was using 2 or 4 Opteron's or Xeon's.

Would you not say that the Rookie Competition was already won by the Person with the Server Motherboard?????????

 

Thank You For Your Time

[skulstation]

How about someone just dropping in on the Rookie League with Opteron's or Xeon's and walks away with all (3) THREE stages.

How is my 4 core/8 thread 2600, 3770, 4790, ECt, ECt, going to compete against a 10 core /20 thread Xeon whether it be retail or es.

The real bad news would start when you found out that he/she was using 2 or 4 Opteron's or Xeon's.

Would you not say that the Rookie Competition was already won by the Person with the Server Motherboard?????????

 

Thank You For Your Time

 

a person how start to participait on hwbot is alwaise a rookie.

even if he/she start whit a dual , 4 or more socket system.he/she need a place to start and ther is the rookie league for

the best thing thad masterpwnerbob can do is disabel points "if his cpu's ar from the new gen".i don't know how he/she have found the opteron es cpu's, i think ebay

 

edit: the Opteron 6272 " Bulldozer microarchitecture " have a introduction date of november 14, 2011 so its a old gen and es from older gen can have points.

 

the new gen ar 63xx opterons whit Piledriver microarchitecture and have a introduction date of somware in 2012

Edited April 25, 2015 by skulstation

[Massman]

How about someone just dropping in on the Rookie League with Opteron's or Xeon's and walks away with all (3) THREE stages.

How is my 4 core/8 thread 2600, 3770, 4790, ECt, ECt, going to compete against a 10 core /20 thread Xeon whether it be retail or es.

The real bad news would start when you found out that he/she was using 2 or 4 Opteron's or Xeon's.

Would you not say that the Rookie Competition was already won by the Person with the Server Motherboard?????????

 

Thank You For Your Time

 

Thanks for your feedback MaddMutt!

 

We sometimes use the Rookie Rumble to experiment with new benchmarks. In the case of GPUPI it is clear we'll have to adjust the rules for the next Rumble to make sure it's not biased towards server equipment that much.

[skulstation]

Thanks for your feedback MaddMutt!

 

We sometimes use the Rookie Rumble to experiment with new benchmarks. In the case of GPUPI it is clear we'll have to adjust the rules for the next Rumble to make sure it's not biased towards server equipment that much.

 

so this meens a rookie can not use dual socket cpu's if the rules ar not alowing it?

if so you can also exclude sli and xfire for the rookies.

just my 2 censt

Edited April 26, 2015 by skulstation