The official HWBOT TEAM CUP 2021 - MEMORY thread.

[cbjaust]

3 hours ago, Sparks.nl said:

So if I unlock it to 4 cores it is allowed?

Edit: Because that is the only difference…

Not the only difference, the 940BE is AM2+ and will NOT work in an AM3 board. The 555BE on the other hand is AM3 but is backwards compatible with AM2+. The comp calls for AM2/AM2+ so any AM3 CPU is out. 

[yosarianilives]

7 hours ago, Sparks.nl said:

So if I unlock it to 4 cores it is allowed?

Edit: Because that is the only difference…

If you had both chips in hand and looked at the bottom you'd see they have different pin layout/count. They are physically different socket cpus

[Sparks.nl]

Just for the record, I think I named the 550BE (not 555BE).

What I miss here is looking at the bigger picture. I can cut that pin if needed.
What is stated in the competition is: 

• Only use DDR2 SDRAM memory.
• Only use processors using socket AM2, AM2+ socket.

Please note that there was nothing stated here about processors. 

I think that the rules as stated are a good starting point and are correct. 
Taking this as a reference (for example) a Phenom II X2 550BE cpu has the exact same architecture as the X4 940BE. I can’t help it that AMD made versions which have both an DDR2 and DDR3 controller and assigned some to socket AM2+ and some to AM3. 
The only clear difference is that AM3 versions officially also support AM3 and with it DDR3. This advantage can only be used using an AM3 socket and DDR3. When used it in an AM2+ socket, these cpu’s work exactly the same as the AM2+ Phenom II since it has the exact same architecture. So to me this still is by the rules as stated in the competition. 

[yosarianilives]

1 hour ago, Sparks.nl said:

Just for the record, I think I named the 550BE (not 555BE).

What I miss here is looking at the bigger picture. I can cut that pin if needed.
What is stated in the competition is: 

• Only use DDR2 SDRAM memory.
• Only use processors using socket AM2, AM2+ socket.

Please note that there was nothing stated here about processors. 

I think that the rules as stated are a good starting point and are correct. 
Taking this as a reference (for example) a Phenom II X2 550BE cpu has the exact same architecture as the X4 940BE. I can’t help it that AMD made versions which have both an DDR2 and DDR3 controller and assigned some to socket AM2+ and some to AM3. 
The only clear difference is that AM3 versions officially also support AM3 and with it DDR3. This advantage can only be used using an AM3 socket and DDR3. When used it in an AM2+ socket, these cpu’s work exactly the same as the AM2+ Phenom II since it has the exact same architecture. So to me this still is by the rules as stated in the competition. 

Is a socket 771 cpu suddenly socket 775 if you put it in a s775 board? Same architecture. We go off of native socket of the cpu. Am2+ cpus physically don't fit in am3. Also I can say that the am2+ phenom IIs clock so terrible that it almost feels different lol

[cbjaust]

@Sparks.nl I think the intention of the statement "Only use processors using socket AM2, AM2+ socket" was to exclude Socket AM3 CPUs and would have been better phrased as "Only use AM2/AM2+ CPUs" while also stipulating DDR2 as mandatory.

 

[TerraRaptor]

2 hours ago, Sparks.nl said:

Please note that there was nothing stated here about processors. 

I would also prefer my team not to be limited to not so perfect CPUs in hands (orleans and windsor). But rules are rules and it was clear thing (what cpus to use) at the competition start. 

Competitions are always about some weird limitations and that is the part I really like.

[Leeghoofd]

16 minutes ago, cbjaust said:

@Sparks.nl I think the intention of the statement "Only use processors using socket AM2, AM2+ socket" was to exclude Socket AM3 CPUs and would have been better phrased as "Only use AM2/AM2+ CPUs" while also stipulating DDR2 as mandatory.

 

This is done by the competition engine,  I cannot change the phrasing unless I added DDR2 as a limitation

[Sparks.nl]

1 hour ago, TerraRaptor said:

I would also prefer my team not to be limited to not so perfect CPUs in hands (orleans and windsor). But rules are rules and it was clear thing (what cpus to use) at the competition start. 

Competitions are always about some weird limitations and that is the part I really like.

For me it is just that I want to use that what is stated. In those lines is no exception for cpu’s which also run on AM3. 
There was also no limitation for example for C2 steppings. Of course Vishera was not meant to run here. 

Besides that I see the same architecture in some AM3 cpu’s. It seems like a strange limitation. I even named the 550BE which is only C2. I admit that it dies not happen that much that a cpu works on 2 platforms… 

In IT audits these things are essential (part of my daily work). 
 

edit: I am not sure I fully understand this. 

1 hour ago, Leeghoofd said:

This is done by the competition engine,  I cannot change the phrasing unless I added DDR2 as a limitation

Edited September 16, 2021 by Sparks.nl

[yosarianilives]

1 hour ago, Sparks.nl said:

For me it is just that I want to use that what is stated. In those lines is no exception for cpu’s which also run on AM3. 
There was also no limitation for example for C2 steppings. Of course Vishera was not meant to run here. 

Besides that I see the same architecture in some AM3 cpu’s. It seems like a strange limitation. I even named the 550BE which is only C2. I admit that it dies not happen that much that a cpu works on 2 platforms… 

In IT audits these things are essential (part of my daily work). 
 

edit: I am not sure I fully understand this. 

If s771 cpus are not s775 then am2+ is not am3, not sure where you're getting confused. Competition is by cpu socket not architecture. If you break the pin off of a 940 be it still doesn't work on am3 motherboard. It's an am2+ cpu. If you put a 550 be into am2+ mobo it's still an am3 cpu. 

[Leeghoofd]

4 hours ago, Sparks.nl said:

edit: I am not sure I fully understand this. 

This Phrase appears in the rules: Only use processors using socket AM2, AM2+ socket

is automatically displayed when I select socket AM2/AM2+ in the competition engine. I can not rephrase it.

[Antinomy]

11 hours ago, Sparks.nl said:

Please note that there was nothing stated here about processors. 

Really?

11 hours ago, Sparks.nl said:

Only use processors using socket AM2, AM2+ socket

I'll put it very simple for you:

 

11 hours ago, Sparks.nl said:

Taking this as a reference (for example) a Phenom II X2 550BE cpu has the exact same architecture as the X4 940BE.

O.K. then show me a X4 940BE valid with DDR3 and we'll keep on talking.

[Sparks.nl]

About: Only use processors using socket AM2, AM2+ socket

The way I read this:

“Only use processors” —> This states that I can only use processors, there is no limitation in this part besides the fact it needs to be a processor. 

“using socket AM2, AM2+ socket” —> This states that any processor I found needs to be used on a AM2+ socket. There is no other limitation. So if I am able to place a 3950x in a AM2 socket and it works it I follow rules as stated. 

This also makes any discussing about which processor which is used irrelevant. The processor I find needs to be placed in the AM2 or AM2+ socket. If I take an Intel, use a hammer for placing it, and installing it seems Ok and it works afterwards it still is within rules. 
 

For the record, I just read it as it sated. I can not help it if text is unclear. 
 

Edit: please note that an am2 or am2+ socket is not attached to the processor.
I think that this is what needed to be stated: Only use AM2/AM2+ processors using socket AM2, AM2+ socket

Edited September 17, 2021 by Sparks.nl

[cbjaust]

@Sparks.nl

• Leeghoofd stated the description in the rules is constrained by the competition engine.
• You're being pedantic
• the comp is intended for AM2/AM2+ PROCESSORS using DDR2 in an AM2/AM2+ motherboard.

Why are you so salty about this?

[Sparks.nl]

This will be the last reaction I give on this because from the start it seems pretty useless. 
To answer the question: Because a fair chance was taken and rules seem to be changing after the competition was started. 

[Mr.Scott]

I don't see any rule change.  *shrug*

Been the same since it started.