PCMark05 , keep or remove from hwbot.

[chispy]

This is my favorite benchmark , since 2006 i have been playing it , but as of lately people have started to look for loopholes and abuse those loopholes to get Very high scores , too much tinkering and manipulation of each test with the benchmark and too many programs running in the background (manipulating how pcmark05 scores) does not make any sense at all since its giving you an artificially (false) very high scores wich does not represent a real and legit score ,Now Its not PCMark05 running as it was meant to be run , Now its all about what program can i find to cheat the score lol. I had it with this BS , Massman please remove this benchmark from hwbot or make new revised and stronger Rules for PCMark05 , otherwise i dont see any real use of this benchmark in hwbot since you can run this bench cheating your way up to 40K + just using (cheat) background programs that manage (tinkering) how PCMark05 its running and scores , that alone break the rules and integrity of this benchmark. Sad very Sad the way its going for us long time players of this benchmark. Please guys vote accordangly and thank you in advanced , lets decide once and for all the faith of this benchmark.

Regards: Angelo.

Edited July 24, 2011 by chispy

[Mr.Scott]

People manipulate and abuse the current rules, I see nothing changing with new rules. Too difficult to moderate accurately. Voted remove.

You're a good man Ang.

[Eeky NoX]

Same here, too difficult to moderate accurately for sure. Sorry for old PCM05s benchers, big loss for them I can figure it out

[chispy]

Thank you for voting guys , very strong and valid points you guys bring to the table.

 

It is very sad seen how low the integrity of many benchers has go just for a few points ( software for webpage test manipulation , Powertoy software video encoding test manipulation , MipMap software pixel shader test manipulation , Software Ram-Disk for very high HDD Virus scan test Manipulation , Using different browsers for high scores webpage test , changing windows media Player with other players etc.... etc... i can go on and on and on with what i am seen right now with PCMark05 , but where does it ends ??? , where Personal integrity have go for PCMark05 benchers ???

Sad indeed .

Edited July 25, 2011 by chispy

[TaPaKaH]

I'm not really into PCM05 but I believe that it's been causing verification issues since the very first day of its competitive benching.

Am I right by saying that there is no way even for the FM staff to tell whether the benchmark was manipulated in order to achieve those "too high subtest scores" ?

If so, then it leaves only two options - "anything goes" and "remove". With first giving unlimited manipulation opportunities, I believe we may end up in the same situation as we did with 3DMark2000, so I had to vote for its removal.

If there IS a way of telling - then I think we need to introduce a new set of rules and "save" PCM05 until we have something more decent to replace it with.

[Sweet]

PCMark'05 is a good benchmark, that people manipulated and bastardized with software tweaks, I like this benchmark, it's a shame.

Seriously is very difficult to detect a soft tweak, and also the member who does not recognize this, of course.

 

RAmDisk software (manipulated down 220 MB/s)

PowerToy

Change browser

Transparent windows (maybe)

 

Btw. and many more tweaks (i dont know all, maybe change codecs or something else) that are the result of hardware but software bloat final results.

 

IMHO this benchmark, for competition is dead, unfortunately.

 

I propose to remove this benchmark points since xxx date, we must not harm those who have run correctly.

 

That's why I do not vote at this time, because removing all points that have run well, is not fair

 

Well this is my humble opinion about this.

Edited July 24, 2011 by Sweet

[Gluvocio]

uptated rules ! PCmark is also a software benchmark. think only the difference you can do with aero skin or Internet explorer 9 . Powertoys are not setting. You can watch them differently, but who can you certificate the difference between Powertoy and skill in settings ?

an upper limit in other tests than xp startup should make flat the competition, I believe.

Removing benchmark I believes makes really unhappy who spends lots of money in disks and controllers and lot of time in settings.

New rules are the way !

[Mr.Scott]

When you have staff agreeing that it can't be moderated accurately, I think you all know the only alternative.

As usual, the honest benchers get hurt by the minority.

Edited July 25, 2011 by Mr.Scott

[Sweet]

yes Scotty, fully agree with this

[Mr.Scott]

yes Scotty, fully agree with this

Hola Alex , and thank you for your support. It's a shame, but it's really the only alternative.

[Sweet]

uptated rules ! PCmark is also a software benchmark. think only the difference you can do with aero skin or Internet explorer 9 . Powertoys are not setting. You can watch them differently, but who can you certificate the difference between Powertoy and skill in settings ?

an upper limit in other tests than xp startup should make flat the competition, I believe.

Removing benchmark I believes makes really unhappy who spends lots of money in disks and controllers and lot of time in settings.

New rules are the way !

 

Gluvocio,Btw. You yourself have tried many tweaks that are and are not known by many , I seen your video on YouTube.

 

There are many people do not know these tweaks, I myself do not known the browser tweak.

It is too difficult to moderate, with many tweaks and software that accelerate PCMark'05

Edited July 25, 2011 by Sweet

[Mr.Scott]

Gluovocio,Btw. You yourself have tried many tweaks that are and are not known by many , I seen your video on YouTube.

 

There are many people do not know these tweaks, I myself do not known the tweak browser.

It is too difficult to moderate, with many tweaks and software that accelerate PCMark'05

I'd like to add that just because a tweak is not known by all, doesn't make it illegal, but the tweaks I saw are clearly rules violations. Don't think I'm singling out just you. I'm just using you as an example.

 

Using software, performing hardware modifications or by human interaction altering the perceived speed of the benchmark program, tricking it to believe it ran faster and thus producing a better result.

Any software or human interaction causing the benchmark to use different calculation algorithms as intended by the original software creator. E.g. replacing the codec or browser in PCMark2005.

[chispy]

I dont mind at all loosing all my points i have made tru many years benching it , neither the thousands and thousands of US Dollars $$$$$$$ i had spent in Storage gear , Raid Cards , SSDs , I-Rams , Acards , Seagate Cheetas 15k drives , mobos , VGAs , bining cpus for this benchmark , Ram , LN2 its very expensive in Puerto Rico $165US Dollars for 35L dewar , H2O gear etc... To get decent scores for the past 6 years on this benchmark , remove this benchmark its the only way to go , now i realize that it will be immpossible to moderate with all the new so called ***TWEAKS*** (that are cheat in disguise and nothing more) , you cannot really tell the real tweak from the dirty cheat , immposible for anyone to know , so , let it go hwbot please just let it go and completely remove PCMark05 , i had my fun with it tru the years but its no fun anymore . Please remove it , all of the mods knows its immpossible to moderate.

[Mr.Scott]

My team is also willing to take the points loss if it comes to that. That'll be a lot of points for about half of the team, but the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

[chispy]

My team is also willing to take the points loss if it comes to that. That'll be a lot of points for about half of the team, but the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

 

I completely understand you Scott , but there is only one way out of this mess called PCMark05 and thats removing it completely , we all going to suffer the consequences and loose points , but like i said before i had my greatest and most fun times benching it for many many years but its time to let go. This is ridicously waaayyy out of hand now , hwbot needs to make a desicion asap , hwbot its too deep in this mess already and there is no turning back , they have allowed the rules to be broken without even known it.

[Bobnova]

Personally I would rather air the thing out and have it be the one benchmark that you can abuse the ever living hell out of.

If everybody is using the tweaks that are cheating now it's a level playing field again. Voila!

Unlike pro sports and steroids, nobody dies if the rules are removed.

 

Removing points entirely is a close second.

[Mr.Scott]

I completely understand you Scott , but there is only one way out of this mess called PCMark05 and thats removing it completely , we all going to suffer the consequences and loose points , but like i said before i had my greatest and most fun times benching it for many many years but its time to let go. This is ridicously waaayyy out of hand now , hwbot needs to make a desicion asap , hwbot its too deep in this mess already and there is no turning back , they have allowed the rules to be broken without even known it.

I totally agree with you.

You are no longer benching your hardware when you spend more time hacking the benchmark software.

[Sweet]

I'd like to add that just because a tweak is not known by all, doesn't make it illegal, but the tweaks I saw are clearly rules violations. Don't think I'm singling out just you. I'm just using you as an example.

 

Well I meant dirty tweaks (cheat is cheat , when using to win score without intervention of the hardware) ., But as you see every so often, new tweaks, and not always know them all, I must also say that many members who are dedicated to overclocking They do not know, not everyone is always reading forums in lenguage english.

 

Tweak or cheat, is the same, if allowed to use also must explain to all members "how to" is used every tweak, as I mentioned above, or would not be fair imho

Edited July 25, 2011 by Sweet

[chispy]

This is what im talking about , http://hwbot.org/forum/showthread.php?t=28747

[Sweet]

Yes i read this, and I see this videos on youtube.

 

As I mentioned in another thread, I think in the end overclocking the PCMark05, becomes softwareclocking

[Sweet]

chispy,..... Gluvocio, dont use Camstudio for tweak, only for record video and upload in Youtube, he use powertoy and tweak web rendering in this sub.

 

http://hwbot.org/submission/2192633_

 

Video encoding is too high, only powertoy, allow this

 

In Web page rendering there is a tweak, but I do not know yet, I do not know change the browser.

 

I wanted to try some of this to check, but my PCMark05 in Windows 7 x64 fails, in pixel shader, I dont know why

Edited July 25, 2011 by Sweet

[chispy]

Yes i read this, and I see this videos on youtube.

 

As I mentioned in another thread, I think in the end overclocking the PCMark05, becomes softwareclocking

 

, hahaha...

Well if that new *** Tweak *** using that software to accellarate the subtest web page rendering lts been used and also powertoy for high video encoding tests , whats the difference between that and using MFT Software and Software Ram Disk ??? They all do the same thing they all do accelarate PCMark05 , clearly against the Rules : Under current hwbot rules , cheats and tweaks here http://hwbot.org/article/general_rules and PCMark05 Rules here http://hwbot.org/news/881_application_9_rules/

 

So Define by current rules , using software to accellarate the tests its a cheat

Edited July 25, 2011 by chispy

[chispy]

chispy,..... Gluvocio, dont use Camstudio for tweak, only for record video and upload in Youtube, he use powertoy and tweak web rendering in this sub.

 

http://hwbot.org/submission/2192633_

 

Video encoding is too high, only powertoy, allow this

 

In Web page rendering there is a tweak, but I do not know yet, I do not know change the browser.

 

I wanted to try some of this to check, but my PCMark05 in Windows 7 x64 fails, in pixel shader, I dont know why

 

kk , got it.

[knopflerbruce]

I could add that strictly speaking, LOD shouldn't be allowed either, as it definately changes the way the benchmark is run (nature isnt meant to look like a forest after a huge fire). But in the end, we all use it. Mipmap: cheat, LOD allowed. If it's possible to draw a few lines so that its possible to moderate we can keep this one, if not: either allow everything, or remove it.

 

However, this benchmark is a joke. Should be rather obvious when you have to cap a subtest, so it's no longer about getting the highest Xp score, it's about getting as close as possible to a fixed number - after crippling the performance of your raid array... When a system is defined as too fast for a benchmark it's a sign that it's outdated and should be removed.

[Sweet]

, chispy I take long time without the help of my daughter to write in English and is well understood, sorry my delay, please read my previous post

 

Camstudio is not a tweak, is software to record video

 

EDIT: Uff be late again hahahahaha

Edited July 25, 2011 by Sweet