PCMark05 , keep or remove from hwbot.

[Massman]

I wish you were entitled to take your whining to a thread dedicated to that purpose.

 

Heh, we actually have a thread for that!

 

Moved some posts.

[Hondacity]

i'd like to see that thread lol. link please

[[GF]Duke]

Where was the thread that decided what rules should be in place and what rules shouldn't?

[Christian Ney]

Moved some more posts here

[Massman]

Duke;157870']Where was the thread that decided what rules should be in place and what rules shouldn't?

 

it's this one.

[ZMBKLN]

As I posted in another thread...

 

Those who can... Do.

 

Those who can't... Complain.

 

Here's how simple it is... Don't like the bench?... Don't run the damn thing!

 

Let the guys who enjoy running it do so in peace.

[Mr.Scott]

As I posted in another thread...

 

Those who can... Do.

 

Those who can't... Complain.

 

Here's how simple it is... Don't like the bench?... Don't run the damn thing!

 

Let the guys who enjoy running it do so in peace.

Don't like what you're reading?, don't read it.

 

This is about as accurate as it gets right here.

 

Originally Posted by [GF]Duke

Thats because everyone knows the hacks now. The big runners wanted that, so popularity would grow and globals would be worth more points.

 

I still want it dead and buried. The bench is not about hardware performance anymore and thats what benching is about.

Points manipulation at it's finest.

[Massman]

FYI, no benchmark is 'only' about hardware performance, because there's always software needed for the benchmark to communicate with the hardware. Just think about the driver of the graphics card: once in a while, a new driver (= new software) gives you a boost in benchmark score.

[ZMBKLN]

FYI, no benchmark is 'only' about hardware performance, because there's always software needed for the benchmark to communicate with the hardware. Just think about the driver of the graphics card: once in a while, a new driver (= new software) gives you a boost in benchmark score.

 

QFT.

 

PCM05 is NOT the only benchmark that benefits from tweaks of software / or the OS.

 

Just the fact that changing the operating system itself will affect the scores is proof of this.

 

Win XP generally is better for 2D than Vista or 7 for example.

 

My question Mr. Scott... Is why do you care? Are you pissed off that you can't capitlize on the points because of a lack of storage hardware?

 

If thats the case... You need to be pissed that you can't capitalize on the 3x and 4x graphics card scores also... That takes just as much money or MORE to be competitive.

 

Again... If the bench isn't your cup of tea... Don't run it. Bitching about the bench though because YOU don't like it is lamesauce.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Convicted1

[Mr.Scott]

My question Mr. Scott... Is why do you care? Are you pissed off that you can't capitlize on the points because of a lack of storage hardware?

lol Silly man. I have more than enough hardware to take advantage of the bench.

Why do you care whether I think the bench is a sham or not?

 

FYI, no benchmark is 'only' about hardware performance, because there's always software needed for the benchmark to communicate with the hardware. Just think about the driver of the graphics card: once in a while, a new driver (= new software) gives you a boost in benchmark score.

 

I understand that, but when the software manipulation becomes more important that the actual hardware OC, the benchmark is no longer a measure of hardware. Right now, you can actually beat better hardware, substantially, with lesser hardware, just by using the hacks. That tells me the bench is skewed.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Mr.Scott

[ZMBKLN]

lol Silly man. I have more than enough hardware to take advantage of the bench.

Why do you care whether I think the bench is a sham or not?

 

 

 

I understand that, but when the software manipulation becomes more important that the actual hardware OC, the benchmark is no longer a measure of hardware. Right now, you can actually beat better hardware, substantially, with lesser hardware, just by using the hacks. That tells me the bench is skewed.

 

A look at your hardware library says otherwise in regards to having the hardware to compete.

 

Why do I care... Meh... I honestly don't.

 

You just stand out as one of the few who so adamantly attacks the benchmark... So I was curious why.

 

It's fairly obvious at this point though... That you're just looking to stir the pot.

[Mr.Scott]

Hardware library is only representative of what you have benched, not what you have.

 

It's fairly obvious at this point though... That you're just looking to stir the pot.

Ahh yes. The statement of last resort when you have no argument or don't like somebody else's opinion. That's ok though, I can respect that.

[Massman]

I understand that, but when the software manipulation becomes more important that the actual hardware OC, the benchmark is no longer a measure of hardware. Right now, you can actually beat better hardware, substantially, with lesser hardware, just by using the hacks. That tells me the bench is skewed.

 

Yeah, I see your point. The thing is, though, that the argument can go either way. It's just a matter of what you regard as 'stock software environment'. If you consider "all OS tweaks applied" as stock software environment, then any further change in benchmark score is the effect of hardware tuning.

 

I mean: when the software tweak is public knowledge and everyone applies it right off the bat, then it's just part of the 'software environment'.

 

The fact that you can get beaten by lesser hardware isn't necessarily proof of a skewed bench. For example: copy-waza for SuperPI-32M or the previously mentioned vga driver updates.

[ZMBKLN]

Hardware library is only representative of what you have benched, not what you have.

 

 

Ahh yes. The statement of last resort when you have no argument or don't like somebody else's opinion. That's ok though, I can respect that.

 

Agreed on the Hardware Library statement... And I would buy that if you had ANYTHING in your HW Library from even the last several generations of Hardware... But I digress.

 

As for statement of last resort... Nah... Just the truth. Debate is a good thing... This however is not a debate. Nothing I could say would sway you from your path of ignorance.

 

Some say the definition of insanity is doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting a different outcome.... For me to continue going back and forth with you would thus be insane and a waste of both our time.

 

I would like to say I respect your opinion in all this... But... I honestly can't. It seems to me you've made a witch hunt out of this.... For no reason other than the fact that you don't like the benchmark.

 

There are a few defensible positions you could take... Such as the fact that results are so difficult to moderate. Yet... You stand on the shaky ground that it's no longer a hardware benchmark.

 

Sure... It's by far the most tweakable currently... BUT... It still takes the correct hardware to be competitive.

 

Your argument is that lesser hardware (with tweaks) can score better than newer hardware (without tweaks). A weak argument now that 95% of the tweaks are out in the open...

 

Well... You apply those same tweaks to the newer hardware... and the scores show the difference. Thus proving that the scores are still related to and affected by hardware performance.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Convicted1

[Mr.Scott]

I would like to say I respect your opinion in all this... But... I honestly can't.

Sorry to hear that. Guess that would make me the bigger man then. At least I respect your opinion.

[ZMBKLN]

The fact that I don't agree with your opinion of this benchmark does not make me a lesser man...

 

However... You've proved my point.

 

You're looking to stir the pot by any means possible.

 

Of that entire post... Your only (weak) rebuttal is that I'm a lesser man based on my inability to agree with your opinion.

 

LOL...

[Mr.Scott]

What ever you say dude.

[ZMBKLN]

what Ever You Say Dude.

 

ahh Yes. The Statement Of Last Resort When You Have No Argument Or Don't Like Somebody Else's Opinion. That's Ok Though, I Can Respect That.

 

Qft.

[Mr.Scott]

Further discussion with you is pointless because you don't respect my opinion anyway. You're turning it personal, and it's not. Don't worry, I'm not heartbroken.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Mr.Scott

[[GF]Duke]

Further discussion with you is pointless because you don't respect my opinion anyway. You're turning it personal, and it's not. Don't worry, I'm not heartbroken.

 

+1 lol tff

[[GF]Duke]

The fact that I don't agree with your opinion of this benchmark does not make me a lesser man...

 

However... You've proved my point.

 

You're looking to stir the pot by any means possible.

 

Of that entire post... Your only (weak) rebuttal is that I'm a lesser man based on my inability to agree with your opinion.

 

LOL...

 

Dude What was your point? Why did you even bother to post here? Do you feel like you are the mod or need to mod peoples opinions? You must be one of those forum moderators that bans people for speaking their opinons you don't agree with. Power trip mod. Your posting in this thread has one purpose only and thats to try and stir up emotions. You have no other reason to post here. Do you have anything constructive to say? Do you even bench PCmark05?

 

 

@Massman..So since all of these other tweaks are now allowed, why is software ramdisk not? I dont see the point of not allowing it. If everyone uses the same tweaks...everyone is using the same tweaks. Just the way its going now. All is fair. Right?

Edited February 28, 2012 by [GF]Duke

[Mr.Scott]

 

The fact that you can get beaten by lesser hardware isn't necessarily proof of a skewed bench. For example: copy-waza for SuperPI-32M or the previously mentioned vga driver updates.

Copy-waza and drivers will not increase/decrease your score 100+%.

Right now a 3000+ Venice at 3 gig with all the tweaks applied, will kill an Opty 165 at 3 gig with no tweaks using all the exact same hardware. That should never happen.

When the tweaks/hacks score more points than the hardware being benched, the bench is skewed. It's no longer a hardware bench.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Mr.Scott

[K404]

Did you mean to have the same MHz for both examples?

[ZMBKLN]

Duke;158179']Dude What was your point? Why did you even bother to post here? Do you feel like you are the mod or need to mod peoples opinions? You must be one of those forum moderators that bans people for speaking their opinons you don't agree with. Power trip mod. Your posting in this thread has one purpose only and thats to try and stir up emotions. You have no other reason to post here. Do you have anything constructive to say? Do you even bench PCmark05?

 

 

@Massman..So since all of these other tweaks are now allowed' date=' why is software ramdisk not? I dont see the point of not allowing it. If everyone uses the same tweaks...everyone is using the same tweaks. Just the way its going now. All is fair. Right?[/quote']

 

You two say that I'm the one trying to stir the pot... I feel it's just the opposite.

 

I do admit now... After looking back at my post.. That I could have worded that bit directed at Mr. Scott and respecting his opinion a bit better. I'll gladly go back and edit it if eases some tension. It was not my intention to offend or attack... Simply to state that I strongly disagreed. For that... I do apologize Mr. Scott.

 

My point was that you and Mr.Scott are so adamant to see this bench done away with... Yet neither of you has a reasoning better than "it's not a hardware bench"... Which is absolutely not true.

 

It still takes the right hardware to make the good scores.

 

If everything were only about the hardware... This would be a super boring hobby. As it is... For the most part you have to spend an obscene amount of cash to get into the good points for any of the popular hardware categories. The binning process on high end hardware is something most guys can't afford.

 

Fine... Thats the nature of this... But to me... It's nice to see PCM05 on the rankings where a little skill and patience gives the guy without huge pockets the chance to score a few points. Again... He won't be making any globals without good hardware... But he'll get into the points.

 

As for having anything constructive to say... My points were valid.

 

Yet I ask you the same thing? Do you have anything constructive to add? So far all you guys have repeated is that it's not a hardware bench... I've made a point in rebuttal... As have a few others... Yet there's been no response from your side of the argument in regards to it.

 

That point... Just to clarify is this. PCM05 IS still a hardware bench. Tweaks alone will not make a top score. Tweaks... When applied to a high binned piece of gear... Will still beat out a tweaked low binned or last generation peice of gear.

 

Yes... I do bench PCM05. As of yet though... I haven't had any scores worth submitting. At one point I held my teams record for 4X... But that has since changed because of the purchase of a real storage solution, and all the new tweaks that have come out recently.

 

I will in the very near future though be making a run at the 4X and 6X WR's. So I like to keep up on whats going on with all this hooplah.

 

In regards to software RAMDisk... You are arguing both sides of the fence?

 

To allow software RAMDisk would truly make this bench less about the hardware. Those who have invested in the good storage solutions are the ones with the good storage scores. That is a HARDWARE solution to a problem. It's just the typical... "You gotta pay to play" thing. If you allow software RAMDisk.... A SOFTWARE solution to a problem... You're messing the rankings up because of a hardware limitation that some people are not willing to pay to correct by purchasing the correct gear.

 

Again... Everybody is entitled to their opinion... Obviously. That doesn't mean that everybody has to agree with it though.

 

It still seems to me that you guys are attacking this bench for an unfair reason.... That it's too tweakable.

 

Every bench on this site is tweakable... Some to a further extent than others. It's just part of the game.

[ZMBKLN]

Copy-waza and drivers will not increase/decrease your score 100+%.

Right now a 3000+ Venice at 3 gig with all the tweaks applied, will kill an Opty 165 at 3 gig with no tweaks using all the exact same hardware. That should never happen.

When the tweaks/hacks score more points than the hardware being benched, the bench is skewed. It's no longer a hardware bench.

 

THANK YOU!

 

This is all I was after... A little reasoning behind your thought!

 

I still don't completely agree with it... BUT... Now I somewhat understand where you're coming from.