Rev3 Up and Running - Complaints, Ideas, Ramblings, Comments ... but no bugs

[K404]

This has probably been mentioned, but the wPrime listings on a users profile page are back-to-front- the slowest time is listed at the top because its a bigger number.

 

I suspect SPi and Pifast will be the same

 

 

Also-

 

The spacing between each top 5 listing for each categories HOF is too low. It looks too cramped and its hard to pick each leaderboard out

 

 

 

aannndddd

 

For a given submission, the icons for CPU/GPU/RAM/board are too big. They swamp the info they are markers to (IMHO)

Edited January 2, 2010 by K404

[Alriin]

@theLamer

 

You forgot the new "0,1 Points for All"-Rule*.

Why should i bench my AMD-CPUs hour and hour, when each Notebook-Bench brings 0,1 Points. Regardless of which Cooling, Settings, OS,.... in one Day i bench 5 Notebooks with Standardsettings and make 0,1 Points in all Benchmarks. Cool...... :-(

 

 

* Or better: the 0,1 Points for the MOB.

[PeterStoba]

Not sure if you're working on this or not RB, but i'm still having issues with the score comment / forum issue. I know Massman said he had to approve them, but I think either you or jmke said that there was still a bug?

 

 

 

[Massman]

No doubt, rev3 needs to be tested b4 big changes could be done.

Just goin to explain my thoughts: If you want to be competitive in single vga, you have to have LN2. That means you need a pot. All that sh*t costs money. Same if you run 4 vga with stockcooling.

 

Interesting case you bring up.

 

Given an equal amount of financial input, given an equal ranking in their respective category, give a different degree of competitivity in the category, which of the following results should be rewarded more:

 

A) Effort to: insulate, voltmod, find appropriate OS/driver/tweak combination, test for first time, re-test for ranking, get LN2 ...

B) Insert 4 graphics cards, bench

 

Note that the competition in category A is much heavier than in category B. So, you can drop in ranking much faster. Which of the following should be rewarded more?

[Massman]

@theLamer

 

You forgot the new "0,1 Points for All"-Rule*.

Why should i bench my AMD-CPUs hour and hour, when each Notebook-Bench brings 0,1 Points. Regardless of which Cooling, Settings, OS,.... in one Day i bench 5 Notebooks with Standardsettings and make 0,1 Points in all Benchmarks. Cool...... :-(

 

* Or better: the 0,1 Points for the MOB.

 

Okay, let's give 0 points then.

[Guest Autokiller677]

I totally agree with theLamer.

 

I myself have only benched unpopular hardware up to now because I don't have the money to buy mainstream hardware all the time. The only sytems I can benchmark are the ones of my familie and our laptop. Of course, there's no way of getting global points with a Athlon 4800+ or a 9400GT, but with rev.2 it war possible to gather a considerable amount of hardware points with this. Now with rev.3 I lost 50% of my points because most results with this hardware are only rewarded with 0,1 points.

 

And there's still a bug in the hwboints system.

This score of mine http://www.hwbot.org/result.do?resultId=895769 ist only rewarded with 0,1 points, whereas the 19th in the ranking (I am the 18th) receives 0,6 points (19th: http://www.hwbot.org/result.do?resultId=783192 )

 

All in all, I am not very happy with revision 3 and I have no more enthusiasm to benchmark any more unless I get some mainstream hardware because it is rewarded this little in unpopular categories. I fully understand that in categories with more than 300 or 400 submission, it's harder to get to the top, and I also think that in very unpopular categories, 2 points for der 1st are ok, but if I am 4th out of 12 like here http://www.hwbot.org/result.do?resultId=899691 it should be worth more than 0,5 points, in my opinion, 1,2 points would be fair. As theLamer already said, the differences between the first places are far too big.

 

The best solution (in my eyes) would be dividing the global rankings in single dual tripple and quad gpu setups and the same for the CPUs in wprime but keeping the algorithm of rev.2, with slight changes, for example, rewarding a first place in a popular category with 75points, but basically, the old calculation system was the best so far.

 

Sincerely

Autokiller677

 

EDIT:

Okay, let's give 0 points then.

I really approved the old system when only the first 20 got points, it was at least better than getting 0,1 points for just running the benchmark. In the time I needed to tweak a system to get in the top 20 in one benchmark and to gather some points, in this very time I can run a lot more benchmarks @stock and gather an equal amount of points. No driver testing, no bench os, just start the pc and run and you get points.

 

Of course, it is like this easier for air benchers to get points but this ain't what benching has been is it?

Running the benchmark has only been a little part of the whole for me. Most time, you spend at tweaking your system etc. pp. but there's no sens in doing so anymore. If I spent let's say, 1.5h in installing a bench os and testing drivers for a 3dmark run to get 0.5 points in the end, it is much more rewarding to run all graphics benches on 2 pc's in the same time because you get more points.

Edited January 2, 2010 by Autokiller677

[Massman]

...

 

So:

 

- You mainly bench close to stock speeds

- You only use air cooling

- You almost never compete in highly competitive rankings

 

BUT

 

- You want loads of points

[Hollywood]

Interesting case you bring up.

 

Given an equal amount of financial input, given an equal ranking in their respective category, give a different degree of competitivity in the category, which of the following results should be rewarded more:

 

A) Effort to: insulate, voltmod, find appropriate OS/driver/tweak combination, test for first time, re-test for ranking, get LN2 ...

B) Insert 4 graphics cards, bench

 

Note that the competition in category A is much heavier than in category B. So, you can drop in ranking much faster. Which of the following should be rewarded more?

 

I am totaly with you on this but: If you want to get one of the top spots in 4xGPU category, you cant run them out of the box! Same as in 1xGPU category.

Whatever you do, its still about the money. Or are you goin to say that bencher without the money to buy tons of LN2 and running the cards with stockcoolers got a fair chance to play within the global game? I guess not. So my idea was about the 5 gpu categories.

Mabye its a way to hand out global points for each category to the user and team and just the best score will get HW points.

Still a lot to think about...

[Alriin]

"Okay, let's give 0 points then."

 

@Massman

 

Im not alone with my opinion: a graduation like Rev2 (Rank 17 have 0,8 Points, Rank 18 0,7,.... and the last: 0 - Zero!!!) was the better method.

I think a lot Changes from Rev3 are good ore at least passable, but this was the first step to lose a lot of Users.

So many People are demotivated now, even Winners of this Revision.

[Hollywood]

I agree, for both money is needed, but isn't overclocking much more about buying decent cooling than buying expensive hardware?

 

Sure it is! But to go for the top, you need to have both! No matter how many vgas you bench!

Edited January 2, 2010 by Hollywood

[Massman]

I am totaly with you on this but: If you want to get one of the top spots in 4xGPU category, you cant run them out of the box! Same as in 1xGPU category.

Whatever you do, its still about the money. Or are you goin to say that bencher without the money to buy tons of LN2 and running the cards with stockcoolers got a fair chance to play within the global game? I guess not. So my idea was about the 5 gpu categories.

Mabye its a way to hand out global points for each category to the user and team and just the best score will get HW points.

Still a lot to think about...

 

That's one of the issues that crossed our minds months ago. Given that we want the overclockers league to represent skill more than the size of one's wallet, we opted to reward the one who has to compete against more people more.

[speddy411]

One thing i noticed that in all the Marketplaces for example PCGHX and Awardfabrik 8800Gts or E8xxx are really liked. And why ??

 

Because if you bench those and take place 100 you get more than 10points, if you try this with old HW you have to bench at least 5 old GPUs and be the number #1.

 

You see its not really about Skill, just about how mainstream your HW is.

[Massman]

"Okay, let's give 0 points then."

 

@Massman

 

Im not alone with my opinion: a graduation like Rev2 (Rank 17 have 0,8 Points, Rank 18 0,7,.... and the last: 0 - Zero!!!) was the better method.

I think a lot Changes from Rev3 are good ore at least passable, but this was the first step to lose a lot of Users.

So many People are demotivated now, even Winners of this Revision.

 

That graduation did not represent the effort one had to put into benching. Why should we be handing out points for free?

[Hollywood]

That's one of the issues that crossed our minds months ago. Given that we want the overclockers league to represent skill more than the size of one's wallet, we opted to reward the one who has to compete against more people more.

 

Massman, but it isnt that different now! You still need a shitload of money to take a topspot!

[Massman]

You see its not really about Skill, just about how mainstream your HW is.

 

Wrong. It's about how much competition there is. If we'd reward mainstream hardware, we'd be seeing huge points for the 8500GT, 8600GT, 9500GT.

 

8800GTX was high-end at it's time, as well as the E8500 (which is more competitive than E8600).

[Massman]

Massman, but it isnt that different now! You still need a shitload of money to take a topspot!

 

Yes. Go back to the example I've given ... I'm assuming an equal amount of financial input. You agreed with me that skill/effort should be awarded more than money.

[Guest Autokiller677]

So:

 

- You mainly bench close to stock speeds

- You only use air cooling

- You almost never compete in highly competitive rankings

 

BUT

 

- You want loads of points

 

I don't want loads of points, I have been perfectly happy with my 30 points in rev.2.

But if I'am 4th out of 12 (in the upper quarter) in a ranking and get only 0.5 points (in other words, a quarter of the ones of the 1st) and the 12th still gets 0,1points, it's just disappointing.

I'd like it more if just the first 10 got points and every rank meant a step of 0,2 points, or, if there are more benchers, the first 20 get points, or the first 50, if there are more than 150 submissions.

Edited January 2, 2010 by Autokiller677

[D!str(+)yer]

I would say, Epic fail, really.

 

You make rev 3 for the bencher with not so much money, but the rev 3 destroy the easy way to earn fast points.

 

A fast Dualcore or quad with these cards which are rare was a really easy way to get fast many points. Perfect for the low budget Bencher.

And this way was not expensive, but you destroy it ....

 

 

In my opinion the rev 3 is exactly the opposite of what it should be.

 

 

There really good ideas with the new separation, but the way of given points are bad!

[Massman]

the easy way to earn fast points.

 

Yes. Thanks for noticing this .

[Alriin]

That graduation did not represent the effort one had to put into benching. Why should we be handing out points for free?

 

At the Moment you handing out Points for free... Rank 200 become 0,1 Points and Rank 400 also. Rank 200 is a Avarage Bencher with a bad luck with this hardware and Rank 400 is a disinteresed Noob, bench with Standard Cooler on a old hard disk with a 5 years old and virus contaminated OS on it. :-)

 

When i start at HWbot i love it to fight me up from Rank 17 to 16... and then to 15... and with a little bit luck (and a lot of tuning) im under the Top 5. Now i have no motivation to bench hour and hour for a better Rank. Equal how many hours i bench, how many Settings i make, it brings me 0,1 Points. That's the Problem.

 

At the moment it looks like "billion of Points for the rich Top 10 benchers and a kick in the ass for the Mob.

[Gautam]

That's fair enough for me and that's what I wanted to hear from you.....a simple "no" and nothing more.....

 

 

EDIT: I've found a "bug".....

 

Ex. When someone plays with SINGLE card and he get's the No1 place and 150points (ex.), and then he plays with DUAL cards (etc), he will get 0points for his other benchies with more cards on the same bench BUT he "cuts off" someone else's points for the DUAL card category....

So the second bencher will NOT get the MAXIMUM for the DUAL card category BUT the SECOND measurement....NOT FAIR if you ask me.....

And what of the alternative?

 

Say that you take #1 in 2 card 01, and Vince takes it in single card 01. Then what? If you decide to go beat him in single card 01, you end up being 1st in both categories, but since you don't want people to get "cut" by that, Vince still ends up being counted as #1 in single gpu, even though you passed him. Then extend that to every bench. Say that in every single bench, you're in 1st for both single and dual in all benches, 03/05/06/AM3/Vantage, and he's in 2nd for all of them. Since you can't "cut" him down though, he still gets counted as #1 in all of them, and you get counted as #1 in all of them. No matter how many times you beat him, he's still #1, and no matter how many times he beats you, you're still #1. How would that make sense?

 

In the current system, in order to get counted as #1, you really have to be #1, and that's how it should be.

 

the rev 3 destroy the easy way to earn fast points.

lol, as if that's a bad thing.

Edited January 2, 2010 by Gautam

[Oskaliber]

It's still easy to get points now, but it's totally without the spirit of overclocking. Get any Q6600 and E8500 under SS/Dice and you can make 50 points each with very avarge scores. While someone benching every single socket 478/A processor and spending days at getting better results in benchmarks gets some just sensless decimals of points. And in the meantime you are making low budget contest, don't be hipocrisy.

[der8auer]

Yes. Go back to the example I've given ... I'm assuming an equal amount of financial input. You agreed with me that skill/effort should be awarded more than money.

 

Yea i totally agree on this! So unpopular hardware should also be more rewarded. You also need skill to bench cards with only 20 results and fight for top 5.

 

 

At the Moment you handing out Points for free... Rank 200 become 0,1 Points and Rank 400 also. Rank 200 is a Avarage Bencher with a bad luck with this hardware and Rank 400 is a disinteresed Noob, bench with Standard Cooler on a old hard disk with a 5 years old and virus contaminated OS on it. :-)

 

Jep! Rewarding only top 100 would be enough... everything more is just "points 4 free"

[Massman]

At the moment it looks like "billion of Points for the rich Top 10 benchers and a kick in the ass for the Mob.

 

Incorrect. However, you will have to look further than your profile to see where it's not thát difficult to gather points. Easy points have been reduced, skill/effort-points have been increased.

 

FYI, I have found over 650 hardware rankings with 30 participating users or more. That means that you only need to be 15th to get >0.2p, or 10th >1p. If you're just 10th in half of those categories, you already have 300+ hardware points. And being 10th isn't that difficult if you put a bit of effort into benching.

[der8auer]

Massman i rly don't understand why you didn't keep the points of unpopular Hardware from rev2 Why not 2p for 1st - 1,5 for 2nd and so on?

 

edit: And really thanks for the time you'r spending here!!!