rbuass Posted July 7, 2013 Posted July 7, 2013 Check your profile. You still get both points and cups. I'm still 2nd in HW masters, and I've got a fair share of globals, too. The globals just don't count towards a ranking anymore. You've still got them, though. Top rankings are different, but in the end the problem is the same - the quality varies alot in the low competition rankings, which must be taken into consideration. There is also a very limited number of such rankings, and the points drop quite fast. Not everyone can be number one... we've already got some fights with servers overclocked 50%+ in wprime. If wprime and cinebench, and other benchmarks that scale properly with many threads (24 and above), get WR points, that will help a bit if the globals for such rankings get a huge drop. I don't matter if all my points and cups I got without no effort is removed... I know some people think like me... and some think different. Regardless the Hwbot decision... is impossible to me agree that people get points and cups easy... and still more when some overclockers got 120 Wprime points and 2 golden cups, running alone in stock frequencies... with no more competitors. I just bring my opinion because is a democractic place.... so... if Hwbot agree I will believe its a very good step... if hwbot don't agree... also its ok for me. Further this not affect to me. Quote
Massman Posted July 7, 2013 Author Posted July 7, 2013 It is not about hardware masters, xoc league or enthusiast.It is thought that points, cups and medals, should not be distributed without reason ... and points, cups and medals should be conquered by merit.... and not because the overclocker bought something that no one more have. So, to me... is a huge flaw to work this way. It's different types of merit. If someone goes through all the trouble of finding new hardware and run a couple benchmark with it, that should be rewarded. You're only thinking about merit in terms of "competitive extreme overclocking", whereas merit can be a lot of other things. There is more to overclocking than LN2 and competition. Quote
Bobnova Posted July 7, 2013 Posted July 7, 2013 Low participation gold cup: http://www.hwbot.org/submission/2162972_ To get that required modding the card (no published mods), then coming up with a heatsink worth a crap (used a SS7 K6 heatsink, drilled new holes, got it lined up, etc.), then actually running the damn thing. Not quick and easy by any means. Another low participation gold cup: http://www.hwbot.org/submission/2164676_ More unpublished mods, dry ice cooling, and a head to head battle for first. All for two points. Both took effort, significantly more effort than buying a lightning, strapping a pot to it and pouring in LN2. Oh wait, then there's this one: http://www.hwbot.org/submission/2168802_ That one I cast and machined a custom pot for because it has a goofy bolt pattern. In short, you have noooooo clue how much effort a 2 point gold (or 1 pt bronze) took. Alternative message that could be taken away: Some people put in work completely out of proportion to the points, because it's FUN. Quote
Poorya_lion Posted July 7, 2013 Posted July 7, 2013 I just checked your profile and your results should not be affected by this anyway? Don't understand why you are complaining. I told you that our score won't affect, Even it doesn't matter if affect our scores. We are not complaining about this rule !!! You didn't get my point. My point is that HWBOT.org is not stable community. Every week there is a new rule, one week some tests have point other week they don't, some day ASUS Pause function is bad some day it is not, Some weeks memory tab is important some week they are not, some times rules will done for some guys some time it won't, ... I have been admin of 2 websites & forums for 5 years and I learned that you shouldn't change basic rules so fast. I won't forget a day that I was explaining rules and points to 3 new comer guys, they got bored and tired of them. In this case community won't grow ... Dear Roman just wait and see in 2 weeks I will quote this post in future new rule topic. Quote
skulstation Posted July 7, 2013 Posted July 7, 2013 i have no problems whit rewarding or not rewarding exotic stuf.not becos i have som cpu's whit no or almost no competition. what is for you louw participation? and what about new GPU and CPU? mister X resive a new GPU or CPU (non ES)model from vendor X and it is not yet avelebel on the market. and he takes nr1 in al 3D benches or 2D whit his CPU Quote
Massman Posted July 7, 2013 Author Posted July 7, 2013 I have been admin of 2 websites & forums for 5 years and I learned that you shouldn't change basic rules so fast. The changes in the HWBoints are that frequency. - 04/06/2011: Rev4 launched - 12/11/2011: Two updates to the algoritm - 01/03/2013: Pro OC change - 07/07/2013: UGP/GTPP fix Four changes, of which two minor fixes, in the past two years. That's not too bad, I think. The "basic rules" for the XOC and EL haven't changed in 2 years. Quote
rbuass Posted July 7, 2013 Posted July 7, 2013 It's different types of merit. If someone goes through all the trouble of finding new hardware and run a couple benchmark with it, that should be rewarded. You're only thinking about merit in terms of "competitive extreme overclocking", whereas merit can be a lot of other things. There is more to overclocking than LN2 and competition. I am not talking about overclocking under LN2. I am talking about people that get easy points... with hardware that nobody has. Lots of obscure CPUs and even videocards ..... and NOT under LN2. Also I am not talking about Pro League where I am part... but XOC and also enthusiast. There are LOTS of obscure CPUs like Core i7 4700MQ, i3 3217U, A10 4600M..., LOTS, ..., giving easy points and cups. About global obscure hardware...Sergio posted this some time ago. http://forum.hwbot.org/showthread.php?t=43389 And almost nobody agreed... regardless I did not consider an owner fault (for sure)... I consider a fail in the rules... So... this is my opinion, and I can not change because I really believe is the right way... If Hwbot will follow or no... is into Hwbot right, but is not my way of view. Quote
Massman Posted July 7, 2013 Author Posted July 7, 2013 Okay. I accept you have a different opinion, please accept that I (and others) have a different opinion and we are not changing it no matter how many times you post yours . Quote
rbuass Posted July 7, 2013 Posted July 7, 2013 Okay. I accept you have a different opinion, please accept that I (and others) have a different opinion and we are not changing it no matter how many times you post yours . I posted few posts ago "I just bring my opinion because is a democractic place.... so... if Hwbot agree I will believe its a very good step... if hwbot don't agree... also its ok for me." Quote
knopflerbruce Posted July 7, 2013 Posted July 7, 2013 Why all this talk about "voicing an opinion", There's nobody here trying to make some opinions disappear. However, it's also a place for discussion - so if you post something I disagree with, I use arguments to show that your arguments are incorrect. Quote
Bobnova Posted July 7, 2013 Posted July 7, 2013 I am not talking about overclocking under LN2.I am talking about people that get easy points... with hardware that nobody has. Lots of obscure CPUs and even videocards ..... and NOT under LN2. Also I am not talking about Pro League where I am part... but XOC and also enthusiast. There are LOTS of obscure CPUs like Core i7 4700MQ, i3 3217U, A10 4600M..., LOTS, ..., giving easy points and cups. About global obscure hardware...Sergio posted this some time ago. http://forum.hwbot.org/showthread.php?t=43389 And almost nobody agreed... regardless I did not consider an owner fault (for sure)... I consider a fail in the rules... So... this is my opinion, and I can not change because I really believe is the right way... If Hwbot will follow or no... is into Hwbot right, but is not my way of view. Instead of complaining about not liking it, tell us how you would set it up. How many submissions would you set the engine to require before scores got points? Quote
rbuass Posted July 7, 2013 Posted July 7, 2013 What did you consider as "complaining"? If I said I disagree something... in your opinion... it mean to be complaining? Quote
Bobnova Posted July 7, 2013 Posted July 7, 2013 Change "complaining" to "disagreeing" if you like. I would call what you are doing complaining, however. Regardless, rather than saying that you don't like it and leaving it at that, tell us what YOU would do if YOU were in charge. How would YOU "fix" things? Example: I'm looking at shirts. They're green. I don't like green, I like black. If I want the manufacturer to change colors, should I say "Green shirts are junk"? Or should I say "These shirts would be more awesome if they were black"? If you were the manufacturer, which would you listen to? The negative person that says they're junk, or the more helpful person that suggests a fix? So far all I've seen you say is that points for "low participation" categories are junk. I haven't seen any suggestions on what you think should be done, only statements that you don't like how it's been done right now. Quote
rbuass Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 (edited) For long time and often tried to give suggestions HWBOT, but it were never accepted. It seems like I'm always wrong. I struggled to reach the top 3 in the Pro League, and it just disappeared ... and this time, also my opinion did not matter. So, I was forced to join Pro Cup... and now I can not compete because there are no single card stage in Pro Cup...(this is not your problem... just my problem... so... that's ok) I would prefer, of course, the time that could see great disputes (which I consider important, but it seems not important to HWBOT),... nice World Records, and scores I consider fantastic... from overclockers that inspired me to do my best. Perhaps this is why the number of fantastic submissions dropped down a lot (please understand that I consider important and are my focus, but are not too important for the league). I mean scores from guys like Nickshih, Andre, SF3D, Rsaninno, Smoke, Slamms, Mad222, Gyrock, Hicookie, Hazzan, ..., ..., ... and there are just few now....if compared to before. Looks for only Kingpin and few others remains... I was for a long time without post any more results ... not because I do not overclock, but because it seems to me, that is not important... The last effort I made, was to win the MOA qualifier ... because it matters to me, to be part of a great competition... so after, I prefer to bench by myself and don't mind about ranking. Looks for the interest of many overclockers that I consider important for league, dropped down...maybe I am wrong (I hope so) Thus, no matter my suggestion ... is better to let Hwbot take their way. Also will not keep discuss with you or other member... All I want to said... is just written in my posts. Best wishes Edited July 8, 2013 by rbuass Quote
Bobnova Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 The horse died a while ago Bobnova There's always time to beat it some more? Quote
Dead Things Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 Well, I suppose mine is probably the very definition of a vested interest, so I'll make my contribution to this discussion as brief as I can... I like big iron. My affinity for big iron is driven by my enthusiasm for crunching and folding. As a result, I get great joy out of figuring out how to overclock it. Usually, we're talking about stuff that is specifically designed to prevent overclocking, so finding a way to boost your Socket F HT or the multi on your G34 chips is a fun challenge. I can only hope that those espousing the "no effort" argument in this thread simply do not know what they are talking about, otherwise I might take some offense. Regarding the new algorithm, well, it's never fun to have a bunch of points taken away from you, but I started benching this stuff long before the subs were worth anything really, so I'll get over it. I did agree, though, with the "if you build it they will come" argument that if you make benching big iron worth something, it would encourage more competition in what I personally believe is a fun and rewarding subgenre of overclocking. OC'ing stuff that's not supposed to be OC'd appeals to a somewhat different cortex than OC'ing K-class chips. So it was good to see guys trying their hand at G34, for example, who may not have otherwise. On the other hand, I definitely appreciate both sides of the argument. There's no way a multi-socket pcm05 global ought to be worth the same as a 4-core since everybody knows that benchmark doesn't really scale. But for benches that do scale - take wp1024 for example - we should be cautious about perverse incentives that discourage better scores, shouldn't we? Kinda defeats the whole purpose doesn't it? In the end, I support a change of this type if not this change in particular. I know full well that I have no business being first in the EL, but I admit that I'm a little disappointed to be off the leaderboard entirely. Oh well. Overclocking is fun. See the quote in my signature for the rest of my opinion on the matter. Quote
Mr.Scott Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 FWIW DT, you just keep doing what you're doing. I like the odd and unusual and appreciate it. It's all about the fun anyway. Quote
Crew Antinomy Posted July 9, 2013 Crew Posted July 9, 2013 Totally with Mr.Scott on this one. It's all about fun. Love the old and rare too. I honor DT's opinion for realizing the situation while being #1 of the Enthusiast League mainly by hitting the #1 spots in multithreaded benchmarks Quote
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