HWBOT Rev.4 - The Plan.

[sacha35]

You are looking at it only from your perspective, which is understandable... But try a bit more open view of things...

 

For the hardware c'mon... think BT got most manufacturers covered Getting freebies ain't easy, let alone a dozen of GPU's, motherboards... I think the teams that have access to that are really limited, if not individuals only...

 

Numbers, serials, receipts even videos ain't gonna cut it... you know that too. It has been tried in the passed and it failed...

 

What are some of the goals of this rev ? To put a damper on hardware sharing. To give teams with lesser members also a chance to strive for top 10-20.

 

My questions to you :

 

How do you want to achieve it ?

How to make OCing more attractive

How to improve this REV without tearing it down without even thinking about it... ?

 

You say BT got most manufacturers covered, this maybe from a UK prospective but I can assure you that when it comes to getting support for hardware then we have to try much hardware than other countries, I have only just received the RE3 when it has been out for months now, so no getting support is not easy in the UK and we get no special treatment with cheery parts or BIOS's.

 

To get some of the hardware we have to put on live events and shows at our own expense so in a way we are paying for the hardware that some of us may get

 

In my eyes this is no different to people submit results from live overclocking events that they have attended, in fact it is even worse as they have been given the hardware which mostly has been handpicked and then they are supplied with free LN2.

 

Numbers, serials, receipts even videos may have failed in the past, but every bit of hardware has a serial number that can be scanned, so if it can be scanned then it can be implanted into software for detection.

 

As for your questions.

 

How do you want to achieve it?

 

Well REV4 is not the way to go, as it will only distract people from competing; only the top manufacture teams will win.

 

How to make OCing more attractive

 

Open up more categories for all overclockers, using different types of cooling and let them have their own league.

 

How to improve this REV without tearing it down without even thinking about it...?

 

I do not think this will be possible, as said HWBOT may as well pick the teams from the list of top overclockers now.

[K404]

I've not thought this out.......

 

Based on my previous post, what about leagues based on team size? It doesnt need to be how the best teams are decided, just as a banded search field so small teams can compare to other small teams etc....

[tiborrr]

I've not thought this out.......

 

Based on my previous post, what about leagues based on team size? It doesnt need to be how the best teams are decided, just as a banded search field so small teams can compare to other small teams etc....

 

This will only promote team captains to ban less contributing (point-wise) benchers from the team.

 

Gomeler pointed out an issue I didn't think before. Due to the fact that Moonman, alibabar & myself have a lot of the similiar hardware (hell, alibabar & myself just bought two GeForces GTX460 so we can have an internal competition) It would be better for our team to split into three teams, e.g. OC-Lab #1, OC-Lab #2 & OC-Lab #3, each of the team having one HW grinder (us) & one high-profile HW bencher.

 

Make no mistake, this will hapen eventually when people will see that they can't contribute to their team jumping a position higher just because their teammate has already secured the first place. I would have never gotten to 3000 HWM points if I knew my benching wouldn't benefit the team. What currently keeps me motivated is the sole fact that i4memory team is less than 450pts ahead of us.

Edited September 20, 2010 by tiborrr

[kow_ciller]

To everyone that says that small teams cant compete. All I can say is Team Katana. Seriously, 8 guys and they're in 18th place on hwbot. Maybe teams should stop pissing and moaning and bench more.

 

@ chew*

 

Thats what paint is for, and that's what concealing someones identity is for. Out with the proof or shut up.

[OptyTrooper]

Nothing have been written in to stone yet.

 

That was the reason Massman put this up. We would like to hear opinions about Rev.4.

Too bad, that there is only certain groups giving input. If all people would share ideas now, it would be a lot easier too see flaws.

 

 

When valid opinions/concern are expressed he simply replies in a manner that insinuates that this is the only way but gee thanks for the input guys. Tons of people have already expressed their concerns on how the new team rankings will essentially kill off the little guys and the response has been apathetic to say the least. I see a " The Emperor wears no clothes" effect going on. Us: "This will discourage the new guys and small timers an only serve to further the sponsored overclockers". Staff: "No it won't we cant' explain how but it won't, trust us". Us: "Ummm yeah it will and here's 20 reasons why". Staff: "No it won't".

 

Put it to a vote. All most of want is transparency and a say in things. If only 200 vote then they are obviously the ones who care. That's how an election works.

Edited September 20, 2010 by OptyTrooper

[K404]

This will only promote team captains to ban less contributing (point-wise) benchers from the team.

 

 

If its in a forum of people who know the deal, it could work. Either have bench team members on rotation (because not everyone can bench all the time, or needs time off etc) or agree on timescales for big pushes and enter the group above.

 

No points involved, just a leaderboard organised by team size

[chew*]

To everyone that says that small teams cant compete. All I can say is Team Katana. Seriously, 8 guys and they're in 18th place on hwbot. Maybe teams should stop pissing and moaning and bench more.

 

@ chew*

 

Thats what paint is for, and that's what concealing someones identity is for. Out with the proof or shut up.

 

OK its you and you snitched on your own team now deal with all the people who think your a snitch............ <<<< not true but now you get the point.

 

Also you failed to read, Even with the proof, falsified receipts makes it impossible for hwbot to do anything about. This has already been discussed with people that can be trusted.

 

Its also why serial number and receipts can not be used to validate anything.

Edited September 20, 2010 by chew*

[kow_ciller]

OK its you and you snitched on your own team now deal with all the people who think your a snitch............ <<<< not true but now you get the point.

 

Also you failed to read, Even with the proof, falsified receipts makes it impossible for hwbot to do anything about. This has already been discussed with people that can be trusted.

 

Its also why serial number and receipts can not be used to validate anything.

 

If you have so much proof, why not throw it out there and let the chips fall where they may? It just seems like all this "proof" isn't really concrete evidence and simply what a couple of people say as rumors.

[chew*]

If you have so much proof, why not throw it out there and let the chips fall where they may? It just seems like all this "proof" isn't really concrete evidence and simply what a couple of people say as rumors.

 

I just told you what the proof is , its a person with credibility within a team admitting what his own team does.........

 

Lets go further with an example of this.

 

Movieman ( someone I feel has impeccable credibility ) comes and makes a post here that team XS is hardware sharing.

 

Would you belive him if he said that? well if you would than guess what, the source i have has that type of credibility.

 

It's not my decision or call to throw it out there, its up to that person and it would be a total dickhead move on my part to break confidentiality.......

Edited September 20, 2010 by chew*

[Sweet]

Latin America, the project was severely shaken, that is my thinking and that of many with whom I spoke.

in this region of the world, money is not the most abundant.

how little or much hard use buy it, like everyone here in the south,

 

 

@Leeghoofd, what you say is true, well....in this part of the world, manufacturers do not send one sticker,

 

Well REV4 is not the way to go, as it will only distract people from competing; only the top manufacture teams will win.

 

How to make OCing more attractive

 

Open up more categories for all overclockers, using different types of cooling and let them have their own league.

 

How to improve this REV without tearing it down without even thinking about it...?

 

I do not think this will be possible, as said HWBOT may as well pick the teams from the list of top overclockers now.

 

We have raised in a old post. two years ago

Thats is the right way...,

 

I'm so sorry, but to me, and friends of the teams from Chile, Brazil, Colombia, Mexico, Peru, Uruguay, Argentina, leaves us wondering if we continue in this.

 

Sw

 

P.S: in the forums Oc.of South, people are talking about all this proyect

Edited September 20, 2010 by Sweet

[dejo1]

sadly, all rev 4 does is stop hardware sharing at the team level. hardware can still be shared on an individual level (illegally or so it seems, but bot rules state= cpu's cant be shared for 2d tests and gpu's cant be shared for 3d tests, but apparently cpu's can be shared for 3d tests) and those that are willing to cross colored lines, will share just as it seems now. I not saying that all do it, I really dont care, as it is impossible to stop it without killing what this hobby is all about.

 

the current rev works just fine. I the corporate world wants the MaxClocksViaBinning (their own little league, with no rules or toes to step on) league, then give them that and leave the rest alone. Its the best solution we have at this time.

[romdominance]

I just told you what the proof is , its a person with credibility within a team admitting what his own team does.........

 

Lets go further with an example of this.

 

Movieman ( someone I feel has impeccable credibility ) comes and makes a post here that team XS is hardware sharing.

 

Would you belive him if he said that? well if you would than guess what, the source i have has that type of credibility.

 

It's not my decision or call to throw it out there, its up to that person and it would be a total dickhead move on my part to break confidentiality.......

 

 

gos·sip

   /ˈgɒsəp/ [gos-uhp], verb, -siped or -sipped, -sip·ing or -sip·ping.

–noun

1.idle talk or rumor, esp. about the personal or private affairs of others:

 

def·a·ma·tion

   /ˌdɛfəˈmeɪʃən/ [def-uh-mey-shuhn]

–noun

the act of defaming; false or unjustified injury of the good reputation of another, as by slander or libel;

[Gomeler]

I just told you what the proof is , its a person with credibility within a team admitting what his own team does.........

 

Lets go further with an example of this.

 

Movieman ( someone I feel has impeccable credibility ) comes and makes a post here that team XS is hardware sharing.

 

Would you belive him if he said that? well if you would than guess what, the source i have has that type of credibility.

 

It's not my decision or call to throw it out there, its up to that person and it would be a total dickhead move on my part to break confidentiality.......

 

I see you have picked up Bill's torch. If it isn't your call to throw anything out there, wherever there is, then how about you pipe down and not mention it? Rondominance (high five dude) did a good job with the dictionary but I feel one more word must be clearly defined.

 

confidentiality - noun - the property of being confidential.

 

confidential - adjective -(meant to be) kept secret within a certain circle of persons; not intended to be known publicly.

 

You would make a terrible spy.

[Massman]

The solution to 389 posts of "you're an evil corporate bitch" is quite easy:

 

- Team League = as it is now

- new PowerTeam League = only best scores count

 

This way you can see the team thrust in the normal league and the true quality (assuming quality equals higher score) in the PowerTeam League.

[chew*]

gos·sip

   /ˈgɒsəp/ [gos-uhp], verb, -siped or -sipped, -sip·ing or -sip·ping.

–noun

1.idle talk or rumor, esp. about the personal or private affairs of others:

 

def·a·ma·tion

   /ˌdɛfəˈmeɪʃən/ [def-uh-mey-shuhn]

–noun

the act of defaming; false or unjustified injury of the good reputation of another, as by slander or libel;

 

Here's one for you bud.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perjury

 

Vmem mod pads don't burn themselves brand new out of a box as well as teammates don't feel obigated to later tell the truth if it wasn't really true.

 

Bottom line your credibilty is no good.

 

Gomer stay out of this, it's not your beef or problem and has nothing to do with BZ.

Edited September 21, 2010 by chew*

[Gomeler]

The solution to 389 posts of "you're an evil corporate bitch" is quite easy:

 

- Team League = as it is now

- new PowerTeam League = only best scores count

 

This way you can see the team thrust in the normal league and the true quality (assuming quality equals higher score) in the PowerTeam League.

 

Leaving the team league as it is will likely satisfy 95% of the masses. It saddens me knowing I won't get to see PURE I, II, III, IV, etc dominate the top 10 team scores but this will help to keep hwbot more team oriented. I fear though we might end up with too many leagues and it'll all run together. Time will tell I suppose.

 

Also we don't think you are evil, just a corporate bitch. No wait, we don't think you are a corporate bitch, just evil. Wait. I'm confused. *

 

* -> it's the humor star, almost as entertaining as the chew*

 

Here's one for you bud.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perjury

 

Vmem mod pads don't burn themselves brand new out of a box as well as teammates don't feel obigated to later tell the truth if it wasn't really true.

 

Bottom line your credibilty is no good.

 

Gomer stay out of this, it's not your beef or problem and has nothing to do with BZ.

 

The lulz are too epic to stay out of this. However, my mommy says it is past my bed time so you guys don't go rampaging without me.

[dejo1]

massman, I think you are on to something.

 

sadly, someone is always going to bitch about something. The proper move to me is to try and keep the masses from bitching constantly, and let the random few keep up what they do best.

 

And we are being heard, thank God

[Warrior_oF_Byte]

The solution to 389 posts of "you're an evil corporate bitch" is quite easy:

 

- Team League = as it is now

- new PowerTeam League = only best scores count

 

This way you can see the team thrust in the normal league and the true quality (assuming quality equals higher score) in the PowerTeam League.

 

I agree with that! I mean two leagues, not the you are a bitch part...

We can try it....

[OC Maximus]

Interesting read.

 

OCM

[packet]

I find it this way. Team is as strong as it's best players.

 

you obviously have never been in a Team environment

 

Your team is only as strong as your weakest link..Meaning as a team you elevate the weaker players to achieve more than they ever could...its called leadership

[Sweet]

The solution to 389 posts of "you're an evil corporate bitch" is quite easy:

I don't think so

It's to late in Baires (Argentina), but not it's to late to make something better and more fair, Hwbot

This great site, I'm sure you do not need this, or even mention it, but the change must be fair.

 

- Team League = as it is now

- new PowerTeam League = only best scores count

 

This way you can see the team thrust in the normal league and the true quality (assuming quality equals higher score) in the PowerTeam League.

 

Hardware sharing: big problem to solve, especially when it gets an unfair advantage to others, we should debate this without resentment or accusations.

Not bad to tap only a few of the many bench's, with the same hard, within the same team, trying to avoid the many reports of hardware sharing

air test a person, another person uses the same hard bench with Dice, this should not be hardware sharing, the same with ln2., But if on the same team, there are over two tests with the same hard, it could be, who are sharing, for example, there are over two tests with same hard with air, unless it could show videos of each bench, and photos of mother and Cpu.

 

Limited to a maximum of two bench to score when the same CPU and the same mother. (same team, of course)

Get less points when used micros ES , or nothing ?

 

 

Team League : Why they are not three different competitions, Air, Dice and Ln2 ?

proposing ways to demonstrate the Bench, videos, photos, screens, etc.,

By the mere fact of using three different types of refrigeration, gives us three different leagues. no?

 

the three leagues should not be differentiated by individuals or teams, for example, Hipro, kingpin, and all teachers of Oc. including Massman you can win or lose to others in the Cat. air.

But, following the example, I can lose with yours in Dice or Ln2 (that's true )

 

Each type of refrigeration used should obtain separate scores, each participant can, get used score for each refrigeration, again, for example, Air + Hwboints, Dice ++, Ln2 +++, rewarding effort and addition to the investment and dediaciòn

 

anyway, attempt to provide even minimally, what I think

 

Please make an effort to understand, or write in Spanish or Italian:)

 

Kind regards

 

Sw

Edited September 21, 2010 by Sweet

[Massman]

The reason why we haven't done any cooling-type based competition uptill now is that it's very difficult to verify the exact cooling used, or even sometimes to classify what type of cooling was used. Chilled liquid, subzero air cooling, triple-stage cascades ... these are types of cooling that fall in between the existing ones.

 

Since it's very difficult to make a clear split-up and there seems to be a very large distrust between communities (examples enough in this thread), it's very likely that there will be people taking advantage of the difficulties. Or people will accuse others of doing this, even if it's untrue.

 

The EL is more of an experimental league to see if it's at all possible to have this kind of league in an online environment. Before we apply the same system to teams and split-up in even more leagues, we need to test it out first.

 

As for the teams league: it's always possible to add slacker limitations than 'best score / team'. We could limit to:

 

- best score per cooling type

- best score per cpu/vga(/mainboard) combination

 

Of course, that will not make hardware sharing a lot less beneficial.

[SF3D]

you obviously have never been in a Team environment

 

Your team is only as strong as your weakest link..Meaning as a team you elevate the weaker players to achieve more than they ever could...its called leadership

 

Hey, this is overclocking and HWbot teams does not work like that

I would not have made this statement in army or would not say this in my own company

 

I think that we need 2 Team leagues. This we have at the moment is for masses and new team league for Power teams where only the best score counts. I would put more weight on power teams as it requires a lot more to get in to top on that one than in these current ones.

 

If someone is interested, check Team Finland point structure and team in general. Our situation is hopeless in here

[Bustah]

 

If someone is interested, check Team Finland point structure and team in general. Our situation is hopeless in here

 

But team Finland has a lot of members...but looks like very few benching. the problem is very simple, I wouldn't want the 'weakest link' as someone put it feeling He would have nothing to contribute to team rankings, it just makes benching look like its becoming an 'exclusive' thing which it is not and never should be.

But of course i'm not hwbot and I don't fully know the ins and outs of whats involved here, but I can say i'm truly baffled why anyone could think excluding loyal members from contributing to a team points total would be a good thing?

 

i'ts very simple, only the person or persons from each team with access to the most support or biggest bank account will have the ability to contribute to His team total, therefore others would lose interest and the supported person, or persons become the 'team' The strongest person in the team is most definately not the team. The team is the team and every contributing member of that team is as valid as its so called strongest member.

[sacha35]

Hey, this is overclocking and HWbot teams does not work like that

I would not have made this statement in army or would not say this in my own company

 

I think that we need 2 Team leagues. This we have at the moment is for masses and new team league for Power teams where only the best score counts. I would put more weight on power teams as it requires a lot more to get in to top on that one than in these current ones.

 

If someone is interested, check Team Finland point structure and team in general. Our situation is hopeless in here

 

HI Can see you anger at team Finland not being in the rankings. However, just because you are one of the top scorers does not mean that your team should be in the top team league.

 

It is a little like football, you have a team that are not that great, but within that team, they have the top scoring player in the league.

 

This again comes to team effort and has nothing to do with individuals or there ability it is all about a team and the effort they all put in.

 

Will it be the case that in a few months time I start to moan because you get a lot more hardware than the rest of us do, I have to face facts you have more time and get better results so the manufacturers will support you more than me.

 

We all started from nowhere and must never forget this, if REV4 was introduced back when most of us started overclocking, would overclocking be as big as it is now, the answer I think would be no as what would be the point.

 

The bigger picture here as I can see

 

How to stop cheating and stop all the sharing, this is a big one to try and sort out, but think it can be done if everyone pulls together to stamp this out.

 

Harsher penalties for anyone found to be sharing or cheating (ban for life) rather than a few months.

 

The use of cheery handpicked manufacture parts is the biggest problem I can see, stamping this out has to be a top priority and again the use of manufactuers intended only parts such as the 2.4ES Gulftowns that are not available to anyone other than Manufactures.

 

How is it that HWBOT is indorsing the use of these parts and CPU's when they do not represent anything anyone can buy? this has to be stamped out.