HWBOT Rev.4 - The Plan.

[Massman]

-confirmed- evidence

[Sweet]

*ck this ... I want post #500 in this thread!

 

Post #505., in this I won

few points for me??

 

Sw

[chew*]

-confirmed- evidence

 

guess we are back to square 1 then :shrug:

[Buckeye]

Just a thought here

 

If CPUz could be updated to show hardware ID's on CPU & GPU's it might make this easyer.

 

I have heard that FM files used for uploads conatin a full list of all hardware ID's, perhaps at least for 3D stuff a scan could be made to compare runs.

 

That would still take a person to flag a run so its checked. Having it be auto checked might casuse problems with hardware that has been sold and repurchased tho.

 

I was trying to find a simple program that needed no install to show hardware ID's but coming up empty.

 

I am not 100% sure if device manage shows what we would want.

 

Here is what my two 260gtx's look like when I select Hardware ID's.

Again I am not sure if these numbers would be what we would want to see in a bench sceen upload.

 

And another screen from a program I found that does not need any install. It shows a CPU ID, but again I am not sure what this number means or if it is different for every CPU.

[Hollywood]

Okay.

 

Since the thread is a bit more quiet now, I can make a post that will be seen. Adjusting the plans a bit: we'll keep the current team format (all points awarded) and have some sort of PowerTeam ranking which is all about having top scores. This "split-up" is pretty much similar to the current Overclockers League versus Hardware Masters.

 

The big team league (all points) will, most likely, be main ranking for teams.

 

Now, does anyone have any suggestions to reduce hardware/score sharing?

 

That's good news! But i've no clue how to avoid hardware sharing.

Maybe, just maybe a pic with the serialnumber (3D) should be added to each submission?

About 2D, i rly don't know.....

 

But i like the idea about the Power Team ranking very much!

[der8auer]

Okay.

 

Since the thread is a bit more quiet now, I can make a post that will be seen. Adjusting the plans a bit: we'll keep the current team format (all points awarded) and have some sort of PowerTeam ranking which is all about having top scores. This "split-up" is pretty much similar to the current Overclockers League versus Hardware Masters.

 

The big team league (all points) will, most likely, be main ranking for teams.

 

Now, does anyone have any suggestions to reduce hardware/score sharing?

 

Thanks Massman Realy appreciate this decision!

 

As i think that sharing is more a personal thing than a "team-action" there will be no "ranking solution" to avoid that. Only way i can see is about IDs or pictures.

 

If there is a specific hardware ID of each CPU/GPU we would need a new tool to show it. Would be the best way imo.

[Kal-EL]

Okay.

Since the thread is a bit more quiet now, I can make a post that will be seen. Adjusting the plans a bit: we'll keep the current team format (all points awarded) and have some sort of PowerTeam ranking which is all about having top scores. This "split-up" is pretty much similar to the current Overclockers League versus Hardware Masters.

The big team league (all points) will, most likely, be main ranking for teams.

Now, does anyone have any suggestions to reduce hardware/score sharing?

I see.

 

- Have submissions also include pics of cpu ihs and gpu ihs

- require video of scores that fall into the top 5 ranking

- Hold Team Captains responsible in addition to the offenders of Hardware/Score sharing.

- Solicit Futuremark for support in auto-flagging identical hardware id setups in 3D apps

 

[Linuxfan]

Sure now would be a good time to make an example.

 

Ban anyone you have evidence on.......Others will think twice.

If the evidence provides sufficient proof I agree. Keep the playing field cleaner.

[Splave]

IMO there should be no law that you cant police.

Allow hardware sharing? Idk there will always be a way to cheat or get around it.

 

A pic of the cpu ihs and gpu ihs is irrelevant. Heres a pic of my 6.6ghz superpi 32m chip (it doesnt do over 5.9ghz prove it)

A required video could be taken in a different room of the same persons house

Holding team captains responsible is good I suppose unless they are the ones running the sharing scheme

Auto flagging wouldnt work, I for one know I run the exact same HDD, psu, memmory, cpu and vga as most on my team

 

There is just no way to quash sharing, so make it legal?

[Kal-EL]

IMO there should be no law that you cant police.

Allow hardware sharing? Idk there will always be a way to cheat or get around it.

 

A pic of the cpu ihs and gpu ihs is irrelevant. Heres a pic of my 6.6ghz superpi 32m chip (it doesnt do over 5.9ghz prove it)

A required video could be taken in a different room of the same persons house

Holding team captains responsible is good I suppose unless they are the ones running the sharing scheme

Auto flagging wouldnt work, I for one know I run the exact same HDD, psu, memmory, cpu and vga as most on my team

 

There is just no way to quash sharing, so make it legal?

The call was for suggestions on how to reduce it.

If the team captain is running the sharing scheme, then its a smart bullet to place in that member's head to kill that scheme.

[drnip]

To be honest I really don't care if people share or not. Doesn't seem there is any real way of determining it unless the person admits to it. What I do care about is the people crying about it all the time and making false claims about it. Is there anyway we can do something about that? Gets old real fast.

 

Just a thought here

 

If CPUz could be updated to show hardware ID's on CPU & GPU's it might make this easyer.

 

I have heard that FM files used for uploads conatin a full list of all hardware ID's, perhaps at least for 3D stuff a scan could be made to compare runs.

 

That would still take a person to flag a run so its checked. Having it be auto checked might casuse problems with hardware that has been sold and repurchased tho.

 

I was trying to find a simple program that needed no install to show hardware ID's but coming up empty.

 

I am not 100% sure if device manage shows what we would want.

 

Here is what my two 260gtx's look like when I select Hardware ID's.

Again I am not sure if these numbers would be what we would want to see in a bench sceen upload.

 

And another screen from a program I found that does not need any install. It shows a CPU ID, but again I am not sure what this number means or if it is different for every CPU.

 

This would be great but what if the CPU/GPU was sold. Then this would be pointless. It's just impossible to find a way to stop it as the person could always fall back on the excuse the hardware was sold not shared. Then how could you prove it wasn't sold?

Edited September 29, 2010 by drnip

[K404]

Thankyou

 

I believe that hardware sharing is done for the individual benefit more than the team benefit.

 

Im not sure how to improve the chance of catching people, but I got a couple ideas for punishments....

 

Punish the team as well as the individual- force the hardware shareers to think about more than just themselves. Point penalty? % of total points? 10x the total number of hardware points involved in the sharing?

 

If a hardware sharer is not given a perma-ban, when their ban is lifted, apply a penalty to all their future results? 10% off?

 

Ban them from that GPU class forever? Hardware share an 8800GTX? Ban them from G80 entirely? Ban them from PCI-E nVidia cards? etc...

 

Force them to a "does not participate in rankings" position for a further 6 months?

 

Add a tag to their username or profile "has previously been banned for XYZ"

 

 

?

[Christian Ney]

To be honest I really don't care if people share or not. Doesn't seem there is any real way of determining it unless the person admits to it. What I do care about is the people crying about it all the time and making false claims about it. Is there anyway we can do something about that? Gets old real fast.

 

 

 

This would be great but what if the CPU/GPU was sold. Then this would be pointless. It's just impossible to find a way to stop it as the person could always fall back on the excuse the hardware was sold not shared. Then how could you prove it wasn't sold?

 

Sold on the Team ?! If the one who bought it is not on the team there is a chance that it s a sale. Anyway the rev with only better score count is the best way against sharing on the team. Sharing like A***e Y**g done is harder to fight, maybe with a software showing the ID of the components, or always have a ORB validation link.

Edited September 29, 2010 by Christian Ney

[Christian Ney]

Thankyou

 

I believe that hardware sharing is done for the individual benefit more than the team benefit.

 

Im not sure how to improve the chance of catching people, but I got a couple ideas for punishments....

 

Punish the team as well as the individual- force the hardware shareers to think about more than just themselves. Point penalty? % of total points? 10x the total number of hardware points involved in the sharing?

 

If a hardware sharer is not given a perma-ban, when their ban is lifted, apply a penalty to all their future results? 10% off?

 

Ban them from that GPU class forever? Hardware share an 8800GTX? Ban them from G80 entirely? Ban them from PCI-E nVidia cards? etc...

 

Force them to a "does not participate in rankings" position for a further 6 months?

 

Add a tag to their username or profile "has previously been banned for XYZ"

 

 

?

 

you are the Lawyer

[Christian Ney]

Okay.

 

we'll keep the current team format (all points awarded) and have some sort of PowerTeam ranking which is all about having top scores. This "split-up" is pretty much similar to the current Overclockers League versus Hardware Masters.

 

 

Hey that was my idea, already posted twice before.

Edited September 30, 2010 by Christian Ney

[K404]

To be honest I really don't care if people share or not. Doesn't seem there is any real way of determining it unless the person admits to it. What I do care about is the people crying about it all the time and making false claims about it.

 

 

 

Is this what you really want to allow to happen? Really? I will do everything I can to stop this being a legal and allowed situation. It would NOT be good for benching. How can anyone think that being beaten over and over again by the same one card is good for the hobby or the poor sod whos underneath it all? If anyone thinks this is GOOD.... please quit benching. Please.

 

 

[Sweet]

For example, it is hardware sharing ?

Two real examples uploaded to the page

 

Person 1 :

 

 

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/3945/person1.jpg

 

Person 2:

 

 

http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/6688/person2.jpg

 

were uploaded by the same team, different people, but with a difference day

 

As may prove to have these data only, which has shared the same cpu, similar reports times of memo... etc ?

Can someone explain ?

 

Is very difficult to detect and to judge. I am inclined to give only the best score points when performing the bench with the same CPU and same mainboard, at most the top two from each Team score and nothing else

 

Should be required on the screens of the mainboard tab, and full screen windows, without any cuts, including the taskbar,... include this in the rules would be better temporarily until it reaches something about.

I think....

 

Sw

Edited September 30, 2010 by Sweet

[drnip]

Is this what you really want to allow to happen? Really? I will do everything I can to stop this being a legal and allowed situation. It would NOT be good for benching. How can anyone think that being beaten over and over again by the same one card is good for the hobby or the poor sod whos underneath it all? If anyone thinks this is GOOD.... please quit benching. Please.

 

 

 

I really don't care and sorry if that offends people. It is just overclocking computers. What pisses me off more than people sharing are the people chrolling and accusing all the time without any factual stuff. Then they want to do nothing but start drama and problems. There is no way of policing it or I might be in tuned to it. End of story . Wish we could move on with life from this broken record we spin day in and day out. People need to get up, get out and get some if this is all they have time for is to complain and whine. Just my 2 cents. I'm out and won't be back to entertain this idea any longer.

Edited September 30, 2010 by drnip

[Sweet]

I really don't care and sorry if that offends people. It is just overclocking computers. What pisses me off more than people sharing are the people chrolling and accusing all the time without any factual stuff. Then they want to do nothing but start drama and problems. There is no way of policing it or I might be in tuned to it. End of story . Wish we could move on with life from this broken record we spin day in and day out. People need to get up, get out and get some if this is all they have time for is to complain and whine. Just my 2 cents. I'm out and won't be back to entertain this idea any longer.

 

Sorry drnip excuse me, you write it to me?, said something that might bother you, not my intention., Besides, I never, until now, sharing hardware acknowledge anyone, just put two anonymous examples are not your team

If you want to delete my post

Many want to help, nothing else

 

Sw

Edited September 30, 2010 by Sweet

[drnip]

You did nothing wrong Sweet and your post in no way offended me. It takes alot to offend me actually. Over the last year though there have been some, and they know who they are, that have tried their hardest to accuse, shake up and cause drama. They live off that type of stuff. I would rather see those dealt with than trying to go done this never ending road of hardware sharing. There is no way to police it.

[Sweet]

You did nothing wrong sweet and your post in no way offended me. It takes alot to offend me actually. Over the last year though there have been some, and they know who they are, that have tried their hardest to accuse, shake up and cause drama. They live off that type of stuff.

 

Ahhhh, it's Ok, you're right about that, misunderstand it, thanks

 

Regards

 

Sw

[drnip]

I just wish we could all get along and bench but we can't because the world is filled with a bunch of hate-a-laters. Guess I can still dream though. Who knows, maybe I'm one of those hate-a-laters in their eyes too.

Edited September 30, 2010 by drnip

[Sweet]

Who knows, maybe I'm one of those hate-a-laters in their eyes too.

 

No, no my friend, I don't think so

you're defending a position you think is correct, I can not judge right or wrong.

But it is true that taking things more clear in benchs fewer problems among the community of overclockers and far fewer unnecessary discussions

 

We can all make mistakes, we are only human beings, but when deliberately violates the rules, a violation that should receive sansion

 

Also the rules should be as clear as possible, without any holes.

While this is resolved, I insist on something I've written before

 

 

I quote myself

 

Should be required on the screens the mainboard tab, and full screen windows, without any cuts, including the taskbar,... include this in the rules would be better temporarily until it reaches something about

I think it will be better...

 

Sw

Edited September 30, 2010 by Sweet

[chew*]

OK pieter after having slept on this and having a clear head now, I really don't have an answer on how to stop it.......

 

Tbh i'm disgusted with benching for boint's myself and my focus has been no longer on it for a while now.

 

Unfortunately 99% of software we use can be cheated, when one door is closed someone will eventually pick the lock on another door.

 

I think even if we did have an answer however ( like some sort of verification ) that still does not change the fact that any previous damage done to the rankings via hw sharing will remain unfixed.

[Massman]

The thing is ... most of the time someone talks about hardware sharing in another team, it's based on hear-say rumours, cannot be talked about in public (maybe someone gets angry) and there's hardly ever any proof. If we start removing entire teams based on just "hey, I am sure of this", then I guess anyone could come to the staff and accuse someone they don't like.

 

If at a certain point someone comes to me about XS sharing hardware, will you allow me to remove the entire team just because of that rumour? Or even based on made-up evidence (which is actually happening)?

 

I'm also not really comfortable setting up a 'witness protection' unit ... it sounds rediculous even typing the words.

 

On of the underlying issues here is that team captains all too often choose the side of their team member, even though evidence shows that hardware sharing (or cheating for that matter) happened. I'm VERY open to suggestions from the team captains, but in return I want them to take responsibility as well and remove the unfair players from their team if they suspect something strange is going on.