POLICE department INTO hwbot?....

[darthtony]

You have an insane E2180, which exceeds all other cpu's except mine. I have a golden chip which runs about 150MHz faster than yours. There's no problem, you're second and beaten by a better cpu.

BUT, today I have invited all my OCTB-friends and I will let them, one by one, bench the cpu on their system with their tweaks, in total the 19 members of my team.

Remember: it's their skill which is being tested.

So the day after the benching, all upload their score of the E2180 and turns out ... you're not 2nd anymore, you moved to place 21th, having no points at all (loss will be: 7 benches x 10 points = 70 points). Will you still be satisfied by the fact that "all used their own system, just their own skill"?

 

You have a good point. but HOW can you prove that some people have used the same cpu's for benching?If you don't allow teams to bench together and share the hardware then why do you have the teams?

[Massman]

Could you please give us a link with all the rules that apply?

I suppose this "ownership" rule is included.

If not, then you play unfair.

We all have to respect your rules, as long as we can find them.

 

That's one of HWBot's flaws which are worked on. I expect a full set of rules to be posted on the crew forums any day now. As long as those rules are not online, the ownership rules stated in you post are the ones you should follow.

 

Explain the unfair part, please? . These rules have been online since August '07 and have been applied many, many, many times before. In this case, we tried to contact HOT before blocking, but it got out of hand.

 

I have seen different opinions about ownership and I am a bit confused.

Can I buy a used CPU and upload my higher scores in case someone else did it before me?

Do I really have to be the owner of the CPU - GPU, or is it OK to use any hardware I want as long as no one else got any points from this?

 

The different opinions in this thread are supposed to help us in redesigning the rules regarding hardware sharing and are not applied at this moment.

Of course you can buy a used CPU and upload the scores even if someone else did it before you (Note: we know that you can state that you bought the cpu while you're just lending it, but remember that this is still all about having fun. We will try to fit this 'problem' into the new rules)

For 2D benchmarks, you have to be the owner of the cpu. For 3D benchmarks, you have to be the owner of the gpu. All other hardware is open for sharing (Note: may change when we present the new rules, not sure about that. Untill the new guidelines regarding hardware sharing are released, these are the correct ones).

 

I am also against bad moderation.

For example you suspect a score was made with the same hardware someone else used to get hwboints.

How can I prove that my hardware is not the same?

Or you take it down anyway, just because this is the way you feel?

 

Normally, we always contact the member when we find a strange score, shared hardware, similar results ... Mostly, just one mail is enough to clear things up as most members just forgot something. When we have no idea of what is going on (not even when discussed in the crew section), we decide to block the score, hoping for a clear answer from the member. In case of too little 'proof' (this is discussed with all result moderators, of course), we keep the score blocked. We can always make mistakes (yes, we can ) and if that's the case, we can always unblock the result.

 

I have read the greek forums, recieved a few PM's and checked a few other things on HWBot and it seems to me that I have enough 'proof' of some kind of hardware sharing. THOUGH, and please read this good, I have also read what HOT is all about when it comes to team benching and I can only congratulate HOT. Although the rules are not followed, the idea and spirit of that session (I've seen the pictures as well) is one we all should follow .

 

!! Please know that this is a problem because of problems with the rules, not because of problems with HOT as a team !!

[Massman]

You have a good point. but HOW can you prove that some people have used the same cpu's for benching?If you don't allow teams to bench together and share the hardware then why do you have the teams?

 

First of all, we rely on the honesty of the people who use HWBot, of course. But that is not enough, so ... good question and we're trying to find an answer to that question.

[mariosalice]

That's one of HWBot's flaws which are worked on. I expect a full set of rules to be posted on the crew forums any day now. As long as those rules are not online, the ownership rules stated in you post are the ones you should follow.

 

Explain the unfair part, please? . These rules have been online since August '07 and have been applied many, many, many times before. In this case, we tried to contact HOT before blocking, but it got out of hand.

 

The different opinions in this thread are supposed to help us in redesigning the rules regarding hardware sharing and are not applied at this moment.

Of course you can buy a used CPU and upload the scores even if someone else did it before you (Note: we know that you can state that you bought the cpu while you're just lending it, but remember that this is still all about having fun. We will try to fit this 'problem' into the new rules)

For 2D benchmarks, you have to be the owner of the cpu. For 3D benchmarks, you have to be the owner of the gpu. All other hardware is open for sharing (Note: may change when we present the new rules, not sure about that. Untill the new guidelines regarding hardware sharing are released, these are the correct ones).

 

 

 

Normally, we always contact the member when we find a strange score, shared hardware, similar results ... Mostly, just one mail is enough to clear things up as most members just forgot something. When we have no idea of what is going on (not even when discussed in the crew section), we decide to block the score, hoping for a clear answer from the member. In case of too little 'proof' (this is discussed with all result moderators, of course), we keep the score blocked. We can always make mistakes (yes, we can ) and if that's the case, we can always unblock the result.

 

I have read the greek forums, recieved a few PM's and checked a few other things on HWBot and it seems to me that I have enough 'proof' of some kind of hardware sharing. THOUGH, and please read this good, I have also read what HOT is all about when it comes to team benching and I can only congratulate HOT. Although the rules are not followed, the idea and spirit of that session (I've seen the pictures as well) is one we all should follow .

 

!! Please know that this is a problem because of problems with the rules, not because of problems with HOT as a team !!

I think it is unfair to moderate benches based on non existing rules.

Make your rules, put them on the first page and then start enforcing them.

No need to be so strict at the moment.

Remember that this is still all about having fun.

 

I believe that no one understands the August guidelines.

Not even your moderators.

Just ask them to write their opinion about how they understand ownership.

"For 3D benchmarks, you have to be the owner of the gpu."

How about GPUs?

One, two, three, four?

I would like to hear your opinion on the following situation.

Let's say I have three GPUs and bench on my system.

Then a team mate brings his own two GPUs to bench on my system using my third GPU.

Is this OK?

Does it make any difference if he owns two or three GPUs?

Then you take down his score.

The next day my friend borrows another video card and this time I bench for him again.

This time you get photos from all six video cards.

Is this enough?

How can you tell which video cards did we use and who was benching?

You said you rely on our word. No you don't and our word is not enough.

When I report a score as suspicious I need to have proofs, not someone's word.

There is no "word" when dealing with rules.

So, unless you find another way (other than our word) to enforce the ownership rule, this rule is greatly unfair and an excuse to delete any scores you don't like.

 

I favor team benchmarking with combined hardware, but I hate giving away a second or third score to other members of a team.

So please concentrate your efforts on this.

 

I am glad that you read our forums yourself.

We started the HOT brainstorming effort a month ago.

Now I see that you want to stop our programs in many ways.

Well, make your rules clear and then we have many other ways to continue our own efforts.

It is great to bench with other H.O.T. members.

 

PS

How many other hidden rules do you have?

Are you also going to make a rule about who is allowed to pure the LN? (you mentioned this)

And do not forget those who help bringing coffee and snacks for the bencher. Since we bench 12 hours someone has to do this job.

[knopflerbruce]

Okay, fair solution

 

Another situation for you Knopflerbruce:

 

Let's say, OCTB is recruiting new members and you all know that HWBot is very keen on new members in the benchmark community. We like to see the experienced benchers learn the new members how benching exactly works. By introducing hardware points next to the global points, we tried to give the unexperienced users a chance to collect a few points for the team (as none of the new benchers will have 100+ points directly).

MassTWO, my newest OCTB'er, only has a E2180 to play with, but luckily he has a good one AND he manages to break into the top5 of every bench with his cpu. When he sees his account, he sees he has gained 15 points, making him 3000th, but of course he's only interested in the team's ranking.

Because I have bigger scores, he does not add points to the team's ranking and decides to quit as it doesn't even matter if he's on the team or not.

 

With the new GPU's, it's easy to get about 10 points on each bench just on aircooling. But if the points are not added to the team's total, why would anyone like to keep benching (especially when he's just trying it out)?

 

I imagined this would be a problem, but you did something similar before:

 

I can't get more points for my team unless I get an Intel rig, as my team only benefits from 300 of my 430-440 points already. Time to retire from HWBot?? I mean... I can't get more team points nor "personal points", only more cups and a higher hardware master rank. The member you talk about will be able to fight for more personal points, which I can't, but apart from that it's the same situation. Which means that I should have less motivation to continue benching here than a fresh dude, since my points are useless, except for a tiny ranking list.

 

I know it's not a 100% bullet-proof solution, but this may be about finding the best solution, not the perfect one. And I find it a bit hard to believe that most people bench ONLY for their teams and not for themselves;)

[AN7 OverClocker]

duh, of course we do, we just don't like result sharing, check Massman's previous posts.

 

Arghh,

We didn't share any results god damn.

 

I see that opinion in 3-4 posts now...we never said that we share results..and its not the point of this thread

[Maxi]

My solution to the shared HW/team score problem:

 

Only the best score for each CPU (or GPU)/benchmark combo will count as team points. Which means that if 20 people from OCTB post an e2180 score, only #1 will help the team.

 

That is exactly what happens by default when joint/team bench session results are posted to a team account.

[hipro5]

Hi there.....It took a while for my answer I think.....

 

Well, I have a LOT to write and I don't have the time right now (I'm on a friend's computer).....

 

When I'll be in my place (in an hour or two), I'll write down what I have to and I'll upload and some photos that I was sent)....

[Massman]

Arghh,

We didn't share any results god damn.

 

I see that opinion in 3-4 posts now...we never said that we share results..and its not the point of this thread

 

So what's the point of this thread according to you?

 

I know that in both sessions (Hipro was helping with the ln² => JOINT session) both E. and G. used Hipro's videocards, which makes it illegal to post the result to their account.

 

I imagined this would be a problem, but you did something similar before:

 

I can't get more points for my team unless I get an Intel rig, as my team only benefits from 300 of my 430-440 points already. Time to retire from HWBot?? I mean... I can't get more team points nor "personal points", only more cups and a higher hardware master rank. The member you talk about will be able to fight for more personal points, which I can't, but apart from that it's the same situation. Which means that I should have less motivation to continue benching here than a fresh dude, since my points are useless, except for a tiny ranking list.

 

I know it's not a 100% bullet-proof solution, but this may be about finding the best solution, not the perfect one. And I find it a bit hard to believe that most people bench ONLY for their teams and not for themselves;)

 

I agree, this might be the best solution in the end . Finding a perfect solution is sloe to impossible, I reckon .

 

Hi there.....It took a while for my answer I think.....

 

Well, I have a LOT to write and I don't have the time right now (I'm on a friend's computer).....

 

When I'll be in my place (in an hour or two), I'll write down what I have to and I'll upload and some photos that I was sent)....

 

Awaiting your post

[elefsinaras]

@Massman

I know that in both sessions (Hipro was helping with the ln² => JOINT session) both E. and G. used Hipro's videocards,

 

you know only for your shelf you cant know thinks for

me or G ok ?

unless if you are god please recall and edit your post

 

YOU KNOW ? OR YOU CAN IMAGINE ?

BECAUSE IF YOU KNOW YOU DONT KNOW NOTHING

we had bench hard for theese results we used many ln2

and many many hours to do theese scors you like it

or not this is the truth NOW YOU CAN IMAGINE ANYTHING

YOU WANT thats all by me

[AN7 OverClocker]

So what's the point of this thread according to you?

 

I know that in both sessions (Hipro was helping with the ln² => JOINT session) both E. and G. used Hipro's videocards, which makes it illegal to post the result to their account.

 

 

Hm...

Lets have an example because i think sth is wrong here.

 

 

"Sharing Results" Is to Bench...lets say me...and Hipro is controlling the ln² or IF i use hipro's videocards for 3dmark??.

 

At my knowledge "Sharing Result" is to bench Hipro...when i was at my bed..an send me the lower Score of 3dmark.

[o polonos]

Hm...

Lets have an example because i think sth is wrong here.

 

 

"Sharing Results" Is to Bench...lets say me...and Hipro is controlling the ln² or IF i use hipro's videocards for 3dmark??.

 

At my knowledge "Sharing Result" is to bench Hipro...when i was at my bed..an send me the lower Score of 3dmark.

You have right here.

But we talking about "sharing hardware" not "sharing result"

jmke have wrong here

[Massman]

@Massman

 

 

you know only for your shelf you cant know thinks for

me or G ok ?

unless if you are god please recall and edit your post

 

YOU KNOW ? OR YOU CAN IMAGINE ?

BECAUSE IF YOU KNOW YOU DONT KNOW NOTHING

we had bench hard for theese results we used many ln2

and many many hours to do theese scors you like it

or not this is the truth NOW YOU CAN IMAGINE ANYTHING

YOU WANT thats all by me

 

This is what you (wanted to) bring to the session:

 

2 x 8800GTX

1 x E6850

1 x G-Pot rev1.02

1 x DDR Maximizer

4 x 1GB ram

1 x Blitz formula

 

A certain number of delta fans

 

//EDIT: Yes, I read the forums when I tried to figure things out .

[o polonos]

This is what you (wanted to) bring to the session:

 

2 x 8800GTX

1 x E6850

1 x G-Pot rev1.02

1 x DDR Maximizer

4 x 1GB ram

1 x Blitz formula

 

A certain number of delta fans

 

And now Peter please say how you reading this post

I can't be "the bad guy" over and over again...

[Monstru]

Guys....fighting will not solve anything, only make things worse

 

I am absolutely sure that nobody has anything against HOT, that alone is a silly idea. HOT is one of the "golden teams" and hipro one of the golden overlcokers, and I don't thin that anyone ever doubt that. I think that the guys from HWB are only trying to enforce the rules, and that is the same for every team. If the rules are flawed (and some of them are) let's discuss that without anger and bad feelings, and let all of us who have a suggestion try to make them better. Propose solutions, find the ideal way, but do not fight and accuse people just because some ego fight. Let's be real, all this fuss about sharing hardware and rules and points started because of the huge ego fight that is taking place between the top teams. I saw how you guys talk to each other, I know how it is to want to have better results that a competitor, everybody can see that you guys are just battling for ego.... Hipro is one of the greatest overclcokers in the world....HOT is one of the greatest teams, with very very talented members.....But having the most points on HWB and being the first team will not make you better, or better known, it will just make you feel better about yourselves. K|ngp|n is a great overclocker, just like hipro....He is on the 23rd place on HWB or something like that, posting just 6-7 records of his. Does this mean that the guys in front of him are better clockers??? XtremeSystems is the 4th or 5th team in the top. does that mean that XS Forums is not the place that brings everybody together from evey country or forum, does that mean that XS members are not great clcokers anymore???? You guys have made a goal from being number one, point wise.... Relax guys, you are great clockers, like few in the world....Enjoy that, enjoy benching, keep breaking WR's, keep pushing the limits, and let the points be just another recognition of your value, not the first. It makes me sad to see world champions fight like that just because some ego fight with other teams about who's first, when all you guys are such great clockers

 

One thing about golden chips, because I can see that the opinions are very different....Hey guys....if GOLDEN teams make regular chips seem like golden and having a truly special chip really doesn't matter...how come the guys from Thug Team still have the record for the highest clock ever???? Why didn't any other great, golden teams, break their record??? Think about that

[elefsinaras]

@Massman

 

to the first meeting.........

and because you dont know my language and somebody

has make the translation to you..........(meaby polonos)

i said that theese i can SHARE

I DONT TELL THAT THEESE......I HAVE ONLY

YOU MUST FIND BETTER TRANSLATOR M8

you expose your shelf to mistakes this is my opinion

[o polonos]

@Massman

 

to the first meeting.........

and because you dont know my language and somebody

has make the translation to you..........(meaby polonos)

i said that theese i can SHARE

I DONT TELL THAT THEESE......I HAVE ONLY

YOU MUST FIND BETTER TRANSLATOR M8

you expose your shelf to mistakes this is my opinion

 

And why you think i was translator ? Com'on m8

[Massman]

@Massman

 

to the first meeting.........

and because you dont know my language and somebody

has make the translation to you..........(meaby polonos)

i said that theese i can SHARE

I DONT TELL THAT THEESE......I HAVE ONLY

YOU MUST FIND BETTER TRANSLATOR M8

you expose your shelf to mistakes this is my opinion

 

I do my own translations, to be honnest

[o polonos]

@Massman

 

to the first meeting.........

and because you dont know my language and somebody

has make the translation to you..........(meaby polonos)

i said that theese i can SHARE

I DONT TELL THAT THEESE......I HAVE ONLY

YOU MUST FIND BETTER TRANSLATOR M8

you expose your shelf to mistakes this is my opinion

sorry for double post

As i have say in thelab.gr i was not involved (any moderator can say if it's true)

This issue not having to do with HOT but with those scores

NOBODY hunting HOT

You are a big guy elefsinaras and if you don't want understand that i can't do anything about it

 

This picture was sent yesterday from massman to giorgos th

SS shown who have start all this history ....

[elefsinaras]

And why you think i was translator ? Com'on m8

 

because my opinion is that YOU are the starter of all bad thinks

my opinion.....not only for this........and for all the other things

that happend my opinion again............

 

edit.......

i am not only big guy in age i am big guy and in weight............

[o polonos]

because my opinion is that YOU are the starter of all bad thinks

my opinion.....not only for this........and for all the other things

that happend my opinion again............

 

But if you don't know things how you can have opinion ? you can have an opinion, but never one with good reasons

everyone has an opinion about everything, but only a few are interesting to listen to

and those few are those who know what's going on

My answer is in previus post

[elefsinaras]

here in this forum you dont need to know..........

it IS ok........JUST TO HAVE IMAGINATION AM I RIGHT ?

[o polonos]

And if you wrong then what ?

You gonna ask sorry ?

Im not a guilty guy here man

These posts don't helping this thread .... Or even you team ...

I dont have say or do NOTHING .....

[elefsinaras]

These posts don't helping this thread .... Or even you team ...

I dont have say or do NOTHING .....

 

i know that YOU are the man that help my team

and YOU have done enough and i want to thank you

:ws:

[Maxi]

Thanks for that Monstru, I hope everyone takes the time to read your post.