Leagues idea

[Guest]

On 2/27/2019 at 2:13 PM, KaRtA said:

 

Enthusiast - everything from Single Stage, chiller, ice bucket, water, AIO, and air. (Possibly have monitoring to prove temps)

Enthusiast needs to be openend up. Think back to the days of when Single Stages first appeared in retail. For many, this was the first big push into more extreme cooling in the hobby but accessible to the masses (with a big enough wallet). IMO, this is where most “enthusiasts” will call their limit, to remove the worry of killing hardware, or sourcing DICE/LN2 suppliers. So why not make it the limit to the league. 

Compounding the positives to this, it it will remove the “not possible on water” rubbish that always flows, and the bullshit will end. Want to crack open a window in a cold climate, good on you, you can do this without guilt (I’m sure most do now anyway without the guilt)

There’s been so many in enthusiast hide their real cooling over the years, or even remove their subs in order to avoid being caught out and moved leagues. If there isn’t the goal of staying top of the league and bullshitting to stay their, then the whole enthusiast league can only improve. 

Opening it up to chillers, Ice Buckets and Single Stage coolers will give them the ability to stop handicapping themselves and actually strive to improve and embrace the higher cooling methods. After all, of people don’t have a reason to improve, or try something new, why would they bother. I can call out some of the culprits I believe are in the community for this, but they know why they stay. 

Compressed your notes. Relevant to Enthusiast.

Oh I'm all for this now. Single Stage so the playing field is even. 5.8Ghz 1.6-1.7v and no concern of degraded cpu's.

When do we start?

[zeropluszero]

On 2/28/2019 at 11:42 PM, bigblock990 said:

Go to 3 leagues. Elite (ES and vendor samples), everyone else, rookie (6mo limit).

This is the solution. 

@richba5tard
what will it take to implement this. 

[zeropluszero]

doublepost

Edited March 4, 2019 by zeropluszero

[ozzie]

whats the big deal from ES samples anyway ? from my experience with them is you might be able to get a good one, same as a boxed or whatever ,  not sure what the fuss is all about, boards may well be different. i wouldnt even be bothering with it, more hassle and headaches thats not needed

[Leeghoofd]

ES are provided, especially depending on where you live you can get highly binned samples ( read for free) not really fair towards the rest in my book, unless you are Elite... if we allow ES all over the place again, we will create another big  bang at the Bot

[zeropluszero]

I dont really like to answer Ozzie's posts without a high level of sarcasm. 

Look, some ES are good, and some are bad. 
sometimes retail are better, sometimes not

You might get a mad retail 9900K like Bullshooter did, and wipe the floor with it, or maybe you work with a board manufacturer and have them bin through 100, 200 who knows how many chips intel/amd sends them and they send you one from their top 5 or whatever. 

Or maybe you work with a board manufacturer that makes something top end but in limited number, Z97 SOC Force LN2 board is the good example here, far better than any other board of its generation, 99% of these boards should be considered ES, although technically they're considered retail for Hwbot because they were available for retail purchase on Newegg for a hot minute. 

Maybe you're talking about ES Kingston AFR DDR4, given out to a few top guys, at the time, with ln2 it was far better than DDR4 MFR and Samsung E die (Until B-die was released)

I think its important that ES for current generation stuff is kept to a separate league, if you're getting it - you're probably getting it for free, and that's not fair when you're talking about binned pieces, of sometimes very expensive hardware.

but once that generation is up, I think it should be fair game. Technically you're not supposed to sell ES but its been sold since forever, and sometimes even given away - I've given up ES boards with permission to local guys for comp prizes and its a great way for guys to push their hardware to limits that retail sometimes cant compete with. 

I think the current policy of ES hardware at HWbot is just fine and support it staying the way it is. 

[ozzie]

4 hours ago, zeropluszero said:

I dont really like to answer Ozzie's posts without a high level of sarcasm. 

Look, some ES are good, and some are bad. 
sometimes retail are better, sometimes not

You might get a mad retail 9900K like Bullshooter did, and wipe the floor with it, or maybe you work with a board manufacturer and have them bin through 100, 200 who knows how many chips intel/amd sends them and they send you one from their top 5 or whatever. 

Or maybe you work with a board manufacturer that makes something top end but in limited number, Z97 SOC Force LN2 board is the good example here, far better than any other board of its generation, 99% of these boards should be considered ES, although technically they're considered retail for Hwbot because they were available for retail purchase on Newegg for a hot minute. 

Maybe you're talking about ES Kingston AFR DDR4, given out to a few top guys, at the time, with ln2 it was far better than DDR4 MFR and Samsung E die (Until B-die was released)

I think its important that ES for current generation stuff is kept to a separate league, if you're getting it - you're probably getting it for free, and that's not fair when you're talking about binned pieces, of sometimes very expensive hardware.

but once that generation is up, I think it should be fair game. Technically you're not supposed to sell ES but its been sold since forever, and sometimes even given away - I've given up ES boards with permission to local guys for comp prizes and its a great way for guys to push their hardware to limits that retail sometimes cant compete with. 

I think the current policy of ES hardware at HWbot is just fine and support it staying the way it is. 

i didnt ask you to answer it anyway , but mate, answer it if ya want , im all ears, dont refute your already made rep on my count,   we all know sarcasim is the lowest form of wit, so go your hardest at it. youve pretty much contradicted yourself anyway

took ya along time to write that post, waste of time tho ?

[zeropluszero]

Thanks champ

[Guest]

Most writing Zero has ever done ... maybe sober or stoned or bored 

[ozzie]

8 minutes ago, avalanche said:

Most writing Zero has ever done ... maybe sober or stoned or bored 

combination i reckon, musta took him 3-4 days to get it, at least ?

[zeropluszero]

You two should date. 

[ozzie]

nah , thx for the suggestion zero, but i dont like to be dated mate, ill leave that part of it up to you, youre good at that i hear ??

[yosarianilives]

Ladies, enough of whatever catfight/feud this is. Can we stay on topic of how leagues should be seperated?

[ozzie]

as i said, i didnt ask for him to reply, i dont know what his problem is, guess its just sarcasm that runs thru his veins for everyone he doesnt like

i dont think bot needs to ask the community about leagues or how to do the separation of them, its been hashed over for years now to no end result , especially with the cooling catergory aspects , so you tell me please mr yosarianiliives

ill give you an eg

me,  here we have an ambient in winter of say from 12 to 18c, and i use chilled water so i can get to about 1-2c on  straight ice , as soon as i do a reasonable to hard bench , my temps go to around 20 to 40c depending on what platform, 775 with a pentium 4 can do 50c + under load and an msi card coz they run warm from the get go

summer is another story with an ambient of 30c minimum up to mid 40c ambient, so how do you think that goes ??? ill tell ya, you dont bench coz all you get is condensation with ice water even with proper foam socket insulation , and worse for the boys here that do dice or ln2

you get a person that lives in a cold country where the ambient is say 0c to -10c for their ambient and hes using air or water, maybe doing it outside too, or have their water cooling radiator out the window in the 0 to -10c ambient,  i have no hope in hell of bettering his scores on the same bench unless i happen to have a golden board, cpu, ram , vga, right?.... and we all know how hard all of those are to get , let alone having all 4 of them in 1 

cheers ozz

 

[zeropluszero]

@richba5tard 
Hows that coming along?

[ozzie]

? i thought a simple description might confuse you  yosarianilives  

i was right ?

 

[ShrimpBrime]

On 3/4/2019 at 8:11 PM, zeropluszero said:

I think the current policy of ES hardware at HWbot is just fine and support it staying the way it is. 

I agree with this 100% If it isn't broken, don't fix it.

 

 

[zeropluszero]

On 3/4/2019 at 1:48 PM, zeropluszero said:

This is the solution. 

@richba5tard
what will it take to implement this. 

Hey @richba5tard Can we impliment 3 leagues now? Imagine how great it could be. 

[Bilko]

On 3/5/2019 at 3:11 PM, zeropluszero said:

Look, some ES are good, and some are bad. 
sometimes retail are better, sometimes not

You might get a mad retail 9900K like Bullshooter did, and wipe the floor with it, or maybe you work with a board manufacturer and have them bin through 100, 200 who knows how many chips intel/amd sends them and they send you one from their top 5 or whatever. 

Or maybe you work with a board manufacturer that makes something top end but in limited number, Z97 SOC Force LN2 board is the good example here, far better than any other board of its generation, 99% of these boards should be considered ES, although technically they're considered retail for Hwbot because they were available for retail purchase on Newegg for a hot minute. 

Maybe you're talking about ES Kingston AFR DDR4, given out to a few top guys, at the time, with ln2 it was far better than DDR4 MFR and Samsung E die (Until B-die was released)

I think its important that ES for current generation stuff is kept to a separate league, if you're getting it - you're probably getting it for free, and that's not fair when you're talking about binned pieces, of sometimes very expensive hardware.

but once that generation is up, I think it should be fair game. Technically you're not supposed to sell ES but its been sold since forever, and sometimes even given away - I've given up ES boards with permission to local guys for comp prizes and its a great way for guys to push their hardware to limits that retail sometimes cant compete with. 

I think the current policy of ES hardware at HWbot is just fine and support it staying the way it is. 

I'm in 100% agreement with this, How HWBOT currently has it laid out is on point imo

[GeorgeStorm]

Tidied up the thread, can we stay on topic and civil please.