X48 Rampage Extreme thread

[TerraRaptor]

Disclaimer: all information here is my experience, I will be not responsible for any damage that may be there if you follow any instructions here.

 

Environment and general settings

·        Replace stock/old TIM on NB – many OCers report that replacing stock TIM on NB helped them a lot. I would aim for <50C NB temperature in BIOS for any settings. Some stock coolers may have issues and may require dremel works to get good contact between NB IHS and cooler. Try software named MCHTemp to control overheating of NB – if too hot, NB may throttle and/or have limited FSB overclocks. Another point to consider – when measuring dc resistance, NB is 8Ohm @30C and 4Ohm @50C – so thermals should rise dramatically the hotter NB is.

·        Disable most CPU features (EIST, TM2, etc), disable jMicron etc. To enhance boot time, you can disable unused sata ports etc. To get very slight performance boost in SuperPi 1M, use modded bios with 45nm microcodes removed (it cuts 0.200-0.250 seconds off bios with ucodes included with E8xxx @4GHz).

·        Pay attention to capacitors. REX is known to have issues with aged Fujitsu caps – there are 3 pcs (one each for CPU, DRAM, NB). Seems like the higher voltage is, the faster these fujitsu caps die – so most affected cap is DRAM cap, if you go hard with LN2 then CPU cap is next candidate to die (I had one blown during LN2 session when I pushed 1.95v into cpu). I had no issues with NB caps yet but saw other people having troubles with it. I suggest that DRAM cap should be preventatively replaced with 2*470uF tantalum caps – do not use long wires to connect classic type capacitors. Not sure about the other two should be replaced before they fail – though cap running into short circuit may lead to VRM misbehavior that will kill the chip. I had also issue with 16V caps near USB headers – these were getting really hot. So you should probably check temperature of all solid caps with finger while running the board at stock settings for 5-10 minutes (note – not a single capacitor should be hot). Here is a photo of all the secondary controllers that are connected to ICH9R and may be removed to minimize chances that one day it would damage SB.

 

Getting higher FSB

If you want really high FSB, make sure you pump enough Vcore. It means that if your cpu needs 1.25v for 500x8, you will probably need same 1.25v for 533x7.5 but closer you get to and beyond 600Mhz the higher Vcore is needed –I used 1.700-1.725v during my attempts to break 700MHz FSB (it was balance of temperature and voltage). Again, cpu voltage is necessary for FSB so if your CPU needs 1.25v for 500x9, it will likely need 1.5v for 625x6 (although core is 750MHz lower).

 

Another important thing to consider are CPU and NB skews. It is core dependant, yet here is some empiric data I have with my CPUs (it varies a bit but still may give you an idea):

·        Core 2 Quad Q8xxx/Q9xxx needs these to be manually adjusted to 200/0 or 200/100 at 500Mhz and probably further adjustment the higher you go.

·        Core 2 Duo e8xxx seems to need adjustments after 600Mhz. 600MHz is 200/0, 625 is 300/0, 643 is 400/100 etc.

 

 

Also, a thing that may help you to run tests higher are GTLREF settings. REX has 4 lanes for CPU, gtlref is derived as a factor of VTT. It is important to note the following coefficients are used when these are “auto” in bios:

CPU GTLREF 0 – 0.65xxx of VTT

CPU GTLREF 1 – 0.67xxx of VTT

CPU GTLREF 2 – 0.65xxx of VTT

CPU GTLREF 3 – 0.67xxx of VTT

You can get a more precise value of these numbers by measurements.

All you need is to start the board after CMOS reset, enter bios and run measurements one after another – Vtt and GTL lanes. Now divide measured GTL by VTT and you will get the precise value your board has by default. During OC, the task is to keep a pair of GTL0&GTL1 (cores 0+1) and a pair of GTL2&GTL3 (cores 2+3) as close as possible within a given pair. The easiest way to estimate what difference should you set in bios is the following equation:

(0.67xxx-0.65xxx)xVTT – that is why measurement of your board sample may be helpful. I have 0.003v deviation between GTL1 & GTL3 for example @1.1v VTT. 

Roughly, it makes the difference of as 0.02xVTT. So if you run 1.55v VTT, you are recommended to make you GTL0 1.55*0.02=0.031V higher to match GTL1. It translates into closest BIOS value +30/auto setting if you aim x0.67 GTL, +80/+50 will translate into x0.70GTL etc. As a side note, P45 boards seem to benefit from x0.61-0.63 CPUGTL but it still requires tests with x48 (though I was pretty good with -10/-40 when pushing E8200 - translating into x0.65 multi).

 

Things that still need to be discovered voltage-wise are NBGTL (should affect FSB), dram reference voltages, NBDDRref (should affect dram oc). No serious tests from me, usually trials&errors only.

 

Tricks that may be of help sometimes

The trick that gave me the last 2MHz over 700MHz valid – setting clock overcharge voltage (in terms of asus p45) higher. This setting is a function of clock generator and defines an amplitude of clock that is being fed into CPU. As this setting is missing in bios of REX, you can change it in windows with SETFSB. Go to diagnose tab, read clocks and then select byte 01.

The last (see image for reference) 2 bits seem to be responsible for cpu clock amplitude setting:

00 – 600mV

01 – 700 mV

10 – 800mV

11 – 900/1000 mV

Set 2 bits, click update, click apply. This is nothing critical, but if you check DFI P45 threads you will see some people have gains with it (setting is available for DFI by default).

 

 vPLL mod – described

 

DRAM skews – these will affect stability closer and over to 2000MHz. Some information will follow in next chapter.

 

My experience with different DRAM IC for 4GHz low clock challenge

Well, most REX boards should be able to overclock 2x2GB dual-sided RAM to 2000MHz – the only difference between boards is how tight it can go with a given set of RAM (if RAM is not limiting factor). Key factor is a so called performance level (which is strap/fsb/CL dependant – so if you change one, PL should be adjusted accordingly).

Please note that you should use white slots to get best OC results in most cases.

 

Here are my tests with different DRAM ICs that were done within the limits of 4GHz low clock challenge (so the choice of settings for FSB were 500x8, 533x7.5, 572x7). I was aiming for the highest possible dram frequency for each IC type.

 

Elpida BBSE, SS-cooling: https://hwbot.org/submission/4489967_terraraptor_superpi___32m_core_2_duo_e8200_10min_50sec_688ms

These are pretty good performers although will have limited voltage tolerance. I have tested 12 different sticks, most won’t post if dram voltage is over 1.75-1.775v. It was important to adjust dram skew latencies to make it work with that high frequency – the difference was 25ps B2 delay was allowing me to pass 32M without errors multiple times after boot while 0ps/75ps B2 delay wasn’t able to just boot into WinXP. NBDDRref of -10mV also helped a bit. Note: BBSE used is pretty strong, one of the highest bins from G.Skill.

 

Micron D9GTS, ss-cooling:

hwbot.org/submission/4489977_terraraptor_superpi___32m_core_2_duo_e8200_10min_52sec_188ms 

These won’t go even 1000MHz being dual-ranked microns. Still performance is acceptable. As the frequency is low, no special adjustments necessary to skews or secondary voltages – pretty easy in use.

 

Samsung G-die, air-cooling (seems have poor temperature scaling anyway):

hwbot.org/submission/4489990_terraraptor_superpi___32m_core_2_duo_e8200_11min_3sec_937ms

These are pretty easy too, although performance is not stellar. Scale from voltage, not hot even with 2.3V. I would recommend these for debugging purposes but performance-wise these are much weaker than hypers/bbse/micron.

 

Elpida Hyper, ss-cooling:

https://hwbot.org/submission/4490001_terraraptor_superpi___32m_core_2_duo_e8200_10min_47sec_546ms

Wasn’t able to make it stable over 1000MHz, although it posts 1066/1144 and I was able to run pifast @1144 before. The best choice for X48 anyway. Allows low tRCD, tRFC, PL. Scales with volts.

 

PSC X-sreies, ss-cooling:

https://hwbot.org/submission/4490004_terraraptor_superpi___32m_core_2_duo_e8200_10min_53sec_187ms

Absolute nightmare in my tests. Voltage intolerant, won’t accept anything over 1.65v (confirmed by Mythical Tech although he was happy with cold PSC in REX). Too difficult to manage these work properly, I would go with bbse/micron instead.

[Noxinite]

I had issues with high PSC voltage only sometimes, it seemed inconsistent - maybe linked to other BIOS settings? Sometimes certain slots would work, but populating other would cause it to not work again.

There was something similar I had on P45 where higher than 1.85-1.9V always failed POST.

[George_o/c]

This is great, thanks for all your effort! 

[twopaca]

nice guide?

[Mythical tech]

On 7/5/2020 at 7:50 AM, Noxinite said:

I had issues with high PSC voltage only sometimes, it seemed inconsistent - maybe linked to other BIOS settings? Sometimes certain slots would work, but populating other would cause it to not work again.

There was something similar I had on P45 where higher than 1.85-1.9V always failed POST.

I tried with 6 kits total of psc on ambient, phase and ln2 and it never liked more than 1.65v  on my rex or p5e3.

@TerraRaptor If you only run psc on ss I would not recommend it for lga 775 as trcd and a few other timings dont go low enough at those temps. I would say cascade or ln2 is needed and dice might work if you have a strong kit

 

Edited July 7, 2020 by Mythical tech

[TerraRaptor]

10 hours ago, Mythical tech said:

If you only run psc on ss I would not recommend it for lga 775

It was pretty strong kit (2666c8 tight air, 2850c6 tight LN2) so I agree it should be temperature limited even with SS. In the end, even below average kit of hypers is better than LN2 psc in x48 imho.

[Luumi]

Rampage Extreme Nismo Edition + GTX2. 2200 6-7-5-21-60 1T is very well possible with PL5, 2210 close as well.

 

Edited January 16, 2021 by Luumi

[TaPaKaH]

10060227 or the '2009 sticks?

[Mythical tech]

5 minutes ago, TaPaKaH said:

10060227 or the '2009 sticks?

2009 

[Luumi]

56 minutes ago, TaPaKaH said:

10060227 or the '2009 sticks?

One 2009 stick and one 2010 stick but I think they all do this just like my own old GTX2 and China 2000 C7 dom GT. Voltages for 2000 6-7-5-18 1T were 1.78-1.79, 1.79-1.8 and 1.81 for the sticks.

Edited January 16, 2021 by Luumi

[Luumi]

And note to @TerraRaptor, there are many Rampages just like other X48 boards that can't run the most important straps at all, so the 200mhz and 266mhz straps. That already makes the board a handicapped one. Getting to 2000mhz is not all, with how many straps and performance levels tells you more.

[Masterchief79]

Hi, got a question for the REX gurus. 
I have a REX that I benched on SS and DICE for many years. One day, it didn't turn on again. I found out there is a short somewhere: If I only connect the 24pin ATX plug, the board powers up. If I also connect the additional 4/8 pin 12V, it immediately turns off and the PSU makes some weird noises.

I noticed the Fujitsu supercap on the back of the socket getting really hot. It's probably fried, so I took it off, but it didn't solve the issue. Could it be the memory supercap too? Or maybe NB? I'm getting okay throughput resistances on the mem and NB phases, so I didn't think those were the culprit. CPU throughput is ~2 Ohms+, which is the same as my working Rampage Formula. But I'm happy to give data and try things if you have an idea. 

For the time being, I left the CPU supercap space empty, is that alright for testing purposes? It died about 2-3 years ago, but I only now have a hot air soldering iron to really tackle mosfet repairs and stuff like that.

Edited January 19, 2021 by Masterchief79

[TerraRaptor]

2 hours ago, Masterchief79 said:

CPU throughput is ~2 Ohms+, which is the same as my working Rampage Formula

Is it measured 2Ohm with cpu in socket? Normally, the value without cpu should be higher.

[Masterchief79]

Yeah exactly. What would be your guess what broke? Turned the board off after a session and it didn't power up the next time. May be a short caused by humidity/condensation, it definitely wasn't a mosfet blowing at full load. Definitely somewhere in the CPU VRM though.

[Noxinite]

There is a REX repair thread somewhere on this forum, I would link it, but can't find it right now.

[TerraRaptor]

2 hours ago, Masterchief79 said:

What would be your guess what broke?

PM @ground, he should be able to give you good input

[TerraRaptor]

I have 2 new things to mention:

1. On high death rate of REX - one of the possible explanations. Board has 2 bios chips and has a bios option that allows board to start with second chip in case POST with primary chip fails (iROG crashfree bios - options are keep or switch). So, I assume and had seen it in practice, in case bios chips contain different firmware versions, settings saved in CMOS for 1301 equal dangerous settings for 1212 as an example (i.e. I had 1.7vnb with 1301, switched bios with jumper without clrcmos and on first boot it appears that vnb is set to maximum 2.1v - should I occasionally save those settings I would fry the board). Having that crashfree bios rule as switch exposes REX to this risk easily. So, two rules - flash both bios chips with same firmware and set iROG rule as "keep". Actually, I like the position of ground1556 of not having CMOS battery in REX at all too - who knows how stable that crashfree function is.

2. "DRAM static read control" should be "DDR3 read levelling" and "DRAM dynamic write control" should be "DDR3 write leveling". I always had read enabled and write disabled but it seems like both options are fine to be enabled with no performance hit. Enabled dynamic write control fixed an overclockability issue for chA (couldn't break 2GHz stable and straps 266/333 didn't work for me with that control disabled). More info on DDR3 read/srite leveling can be found here - looks like good thing: https://daffy1108.wordpress.com/2010/09/02/understanding-ddr3-write-leveling-and-read-leveling/

Edited June 4, 2021 by TerraRaptor