HWBOT 3DMARK LEGACIES RULES DISCUSSION THREAD

[Leeghoofd]

3DMark 99 Max

3DMark 2000

3DMark 2001 SE

3DMark 03

3DMark 05

3DMark 06

3DMark 11 Series

3DMark Vantage Series

 

 

 

3DMark-Vantage-CommandLineGuide.pdf

[TASOS]

Hello Alby

Please take into consideration that , older platforms in general (mostly prior to socket 775) usually suffer (points loss) from new systeminfo files.

In some cases they cant even start the bench.

There are also examples where even version 4.xx systeminfo is not suitable.

 

[Leeghoofd]

If its PCIe and DDR4 I think there's plenty of subplatform power to make up for the point loss.

Now for  05-06 a link is required only for Global top 20 (There's no mention of  Systeminfo for the older legacies)

Only for Vantage and 11 we require a link and an updated Systeminfo, is that a problem?

[TASOS]

55 minutes ago, Leeghoofd said:

If its PCIe and DDR4 I think there's plenty of subplatform power to make up for the point loss.

Now for  05-06 a link is required only for Global top 20 (There's no mention of  Systeminfo for the older legacies)

Only for Vantage and 11 we require a link and an updated Systeminfo, is that a problem?

I am talking about legacy platforms. (max ddr2)

For example 3DM Vantage on socket939 scores lower with modern systeminfo versions (cause of lower cpu scores)

We need a special mention about older platforms.

 

 

[Leeghoofd]

K, but why would you use a 939 platform to bench Vantage?

[Mr.Scott]

14 minutes ago, Leeghoofd said:

K, but why would you use a 939 platform to bench Vantage?

Because some people just like to bench old gear. Doesn't really matter which benchmark.

[Leeghoofd]

Sure, but whats the aim of the game, to go head to head with other 939 users ? I fail to see the reason why we should make rules again more complicated because users want to bench Vantage on a non optimal platform. 

[Mr.Scott]

Rules should be adaptable to all platforms that are capable of running the benchmark. Not just current gen. In 5 years you will be doing all this again with the mentality you're using now.

[Leeghoofd]

Well the benchmark runs, but the perf is a bit off versus older systeminfo's,...

Rules will always adapt to whatever it is needed to make is as simple and secure possible. It's impossible to make rules that serve all platforms without having a side effect on something. They are as simplified as possible now, taking into account security and validity on UL. If we have to exclude Socket939, it will be tomorrow the AGP guys that have an issue somewhere.  It will never be suitable for everybody Scotty

Anyway if you guys want to host a old school compo you can set CPUZ and GPUz, Systeminfo stuff yourselves in the competition rules.

 

[Mr.Scott]

I know Alby, I realize the old school folks will have to make adaptions. You're right though, we can always set our own rules for comps.

Not trying to be hard to get along with, just trying to get what we can out of the changes. You're doing a fine job for the most part. Thank you for your service.....Greg and Alex  too.

[TASOS]

10 hours ago, Leeghoofd said:

K, but why would you use a 939 platform to bench Vantage?

1) For Old School Competitions  (thats when i discovered the impact of systeminfo versions).

2) For fun

3) Not for points

 

 

[TASOS]

9 hours ago, Leeghoofd said:

Well the benchmark runs, but the perf is a bit off versus older systeminfo's,...

Rules will always adapt to whatever it is needed to make is as simple and secure possible. It's impossible to make rules that serve all platforms without having a side effect on something. They are as simplified as possible now, taking into account security and validity on UL. If we have to exclude Socket939, it will be tomorrow the AGP guys that have an issue somewhere.  It will never be suitable for everybody Scotty

Anyway if you guys want to host a old school compo you can set CPUZ and GPUz, Systeminfo stuff yourselves in the competition rules.

 

It's not only socket 939 (that was just an example) ... it's almost all prior to 775 (and agp's included)

Not a good idea to set a specific systeminfo version for a competition , you loose the performance advantage.

Not all old school members know , which is the best systeminfo version for each bench and each platform (myself included).

9 hours ago, Mr.Scott said:

I know Alby, I realize the old school folks will have to make adaptions. You're right though, we can always set our own rules for comps.

 

ok , 2 years after the competition ends

Some user starts reporting all the competition subs for not using the correct systeminfo version.

More work for the moderators ? should a moderator remember after years what a specific old school competition was using for systeminfo ?

 

---

For the above reasons , i ask (if possible) to make a mention in current rules about legacy platforms.

You can clearly see , that it has nothing to do with points. (scores are very low on legacy).

 

 

[Leeghoofd]

If the score is linked to a competition, the rules will still be there... no worries.

I have a changelog of all benchmarks , regarding these things, verification link, systeminfo, CPUZ, ...

If you guys host a competition it will clearly stated it's with YOUR specific rules, not HWBOT's...

[Antinomy]

1) I've benched a not too popular videocard, Twister K recently. GPU-Z gives me a BSOD on stock settings, what should I do? GPU-Z doesn't support it either.

2) Certain systems (Radeon being one of them) hang up on start of 3DMark. Is using -nosysteminfo key allowed for such cases?

[Bones]

5 hours ago, Antinomy said:

1) I've benched a not too popular videocard, Twister K recently. GPU-Z gives me a BSOD on stock settings, what should I do? GPU-Z doesn't support it either.

2) Certain systems (Radeon being one of them) hang up on start of 3DMark. Is using -nosysteminfo key allowed for such cases?

Sounds like W1zzard would need to look into that concerning GPU-Z.
 

Edited February 5, 2021 by Bones

[Antinomy]

8 hours ago, Bones said:

Sounds like W1zzard would need to look into that concerning GPU-Z.

I'm afraid those are too old and rare for him to make an interest...

[Rauf]

What is the point of running systeminfo on legacy benchmarks where lod and tess is allowed anyway? 01-06 ran just fine without sysinfo for years. But for everything except 01 with vali link for top scores at least.

Just make sure they are run on platform and/or OS that does not have timer bug = No issues.

 

System info on amd for legacy benchmarks is a mess...

All years benching 03-06 and vantage and 3d11 I have never seen any issues running on old sysinfo or completely without. Why put your trust in sysinfo that is not made for these old benchmarks. Most likely they won't catch anything anyway. Like 03 running black screen, but fps in subtests will give it away. 

[Leeghoofd]

When everybody running the systeminfo on 06-Vantage-11 we can detect the version, thus it makes the playground more balanced.

[Rauf]

What version do you mean? Sysinfo or benchmark? Because benchmark version is not conclusive, just which major subversion. For instance 1.0, but not which 1.0.xxx

[Antinomy]

On 2/5/2021 at 5:15 AM, Leeghoofd said:

Only for Vantage and 11 we require a link and an updated Systeminfo, is that a problem?

My way so far: Vista SP1, Core2 setup.
1) Need a verification link. Haven't accessed FM account for 10 years, had to reset password to just open it.
2) O.K., need to unregister Vantage from my usual illegal CD-key to put the free one (or my legal one) - no way to do this, had to uninstall the bench and in the end it asks to delete registration
3) O.K., reinstall Vantage, free key, run, screen, valid file. Submit on UL site - you benchmark is of wrong version, F....
4) download, reinstall again, run, screen, file, valid - there's an update for Systeminfo.
5) Download Systeminfo 5.37.xx, click - "can't be installed because the installer required newer windows installer version"
6) Found windows installer update 4.5 (being wiped out by M$ everywhere so took time). For those looking, windows6.0-kb942288-v2-x86.msu Install (had to enable Win update service), reboot - same error with "windows installer version".

So after more than one and a half hours I'd like to know - which windows installer version does this dang thing need? And where do I get one for Vista x86 SP1?

Looks like I really need a manual how to live these new rules...

Edited February 15, 2021 by Antinomy

[Leeghoofd]

Try win7... You still use ya Nokia 3210?

There's no VALID verification required for Vantage anyway, so Vantage can allow usage of LOD, older Systeminfo's,... Check the FAQ

[Antinomy]

8 hours ago, Leeghoofd said:

so Vantage can allow usage of LOD, older Systeminfo's

Then there's a controversial point in the benchmark's rules:

Quote

Latest version & Systeminfo 5.32+ (enabled)

https://hwbot.org/rules?referenceId=5196
 

9 hours ago, Leeghoofd said:

You still use ya Nokia 3210?

I would prefer one in some experiences of my life. This particular ES won't work in Win7, my retail ones are slower. Thanks for the answer! I'll try to catch up.

[Leeghoofd]

5.32 is the lowest recommended by UL, hence why that one is mentioned, but it's still an older Systeminfo as the latest one is 5.37... ?

[Antinomy]

1 hour ago, Leeghoofd said:

5.32 is the lowest recommended by UL, hence why that one is mentioned

O.K. if my result gets banned, I'll say it's your fault ?

[Matsglobetrotter]

From UL/Futuremark site

 

SystemInfo is a component used in many of our benchmarks to identify the hardware in your system. It does not collect any personally identifiable information. SystemInfo updates do not affect benchmark scores but you may need the latest version in order to obtain a valid score.

The most recent versions of our currently supported benchmarks will prompt you to install new SystemInfo updates. Alternatively, you can update SystemInfo yourself from this page.

Note that Windows XP, 3DMark06, and PCMark05 are no longer supported. SystemInfo functionality on Windows XP is provided as-is without guarantees. From version 4.29 onwards, SystemInfo requires Windows XP Service Pack 3. If you wish to run 3DMark06 and PCMark05 on Windows XP SP2 or older, you should use SystemInfo 4.28.

All UL benchmarks on Windows 10 require SystemInfo 4.40 or later.