MOA 2013 Discussion

[benchmark.kz]

Simple truth about MOA & EPOWER:

 

if community doesn't ask a question "Can I use Epower", community wouldn't get answer "No, you can't".

[Massman]

Added the extra video requirement to the competition stages.

 

Class A

 

As MSI does not allow 3rd party external VRMs such as EPower HWBOT requests a verification video to approve the achieved 3D score. Traditional volt modifications or an external MSI VRM such as a cut lightning card are allowed. This rule applies for the 3DMark Fire Strike Extreme.

 

GTX Titan and GTX 780 users have to provide the video once they exceed a GPU core clock of 1300 MHz. The video has to include at least the last 5 seconds of the running benchmark, the achieved score and the GPU (boost) clock in Nvidia Inspector. After capturing the result you have to move over to the system and show the graphics card including a detailed shot of the power area.

 

Class B

 

As MSI does not allow 3rd party external VRMs such as EPower HWBOT requests a verification video to approve the achieved 3D score. Traditional volt modifications or an external MSI VRM such as a cut lightning card are allowed. This rule applies for the 3DMark Vantage Performance and 3DMark03.

 

GTX 560 Ti 448 users have to provide the video once they exceed a GPU core clock of 1200 MHz. HD 7790 users if exceeding 1500 MHz. The video has to include at least the last 5 seconds of the running benchmark, the achieved score and the GPU (boost) clock in Nvidia Inspector or GPU-Z. After capturing the result you have to move over to the system and show the graphics card including a detailed shot of the power area.

[icebob]

Where do we send blood sample for DNA authentification?

[Xtreme Addict]

Ref VRM from MSI card, like MSI GTX 480, MSI HD2900XT are allowed?

 

What users need to "validate" ref VRM? MSI box?

[Massman]

Where do we send blood sample for DNA authentification?

 

dna-sample@msi.com

 

//edit: in all seriousness, let's stop the complaining and nagging in this thread. Our hands are tied as this is how MSI, the organiser of the MOA competition, wants the rules. The video proof requests comes from the community to ensure no re-runs have to be done. If anyone doesn't want to continue the MOA campaign any longer, that is a perfectly valid choice. I'm just saying ... we know how, what and why, let's not waste our time on writing angry forum posts anymore. There's no point anyway.

Edited July 4, 2013 by Massman

[Xtreme Addict]

Ref VRM from MSI card, like MSI GTX 480, MSI HD2900XT are allowed?

 

What users need to "validate" ref VRM? MSI box?

 

??

[Massman]

Yes they are allowed. No need to validate the reference design with a box.

[icebob]

Was just trying to be funny, not complaining! for the 7790, 1500 is fairly easy with just simple vmod...

[der8auer]

Yes same goes to the GTX Titan / GTX 780. Let me quote Massman for this:

 

The video proof requests comes from the community to ensure no re-runs have to be done. If anyone doesn't want to continue the MOA campaign any longer, that is a perfectly valid choice. I'm just saying ... we know how, what and why, let's not waste our time on writing angry forum posts anymore. There's no point anyway.

[T0lsty]

GTX 560 Ti 448 users have to provide the video once they exceed a GPU core clock of 1200 MHz. HD 7790 users if exceeding 1500 MHz.

560ti 448 can easy do 1250 -1280 on stock vrm... (i mean PE card)

http://hwbot.org/submission/2394899_t0lsty_3dmark11___performance_geforce_gtx_560_ti_448_9385_marks

[der8auer]

Mine couldnt That's why I set the limit to 1200 MHz =)

[Vivi]

Mine couldnt That's why I set the limit to 1200 MHz =)

 

hahah if it beats der8auer must be validated by video ^^.

 

Yea mass, thanks for doing all you could. lets get this show on the road

[TaPaKaH]

Mine couldnt That's why I set the limit to 1200 MHz =)

Is it a limitation of the GPU quality or the VRM?

 

If it's just a bad core, then I see at least two alternative (more sensible?) ways of handling the video validation question:

a) Find the highest frequency done on stock VRM that was posted before competition kicked off and use that as a video validation threshold.

b) In addition to a), if someone posts a video of stock VRM running higher, move the threshold frequency upwards.

In both these cases, everyone "knows" that the stock VRM can handle frequency X allowing people with ePower also bench at frequency X (or X minus 50/100MHz, to give guys pushing stock VRM and making videos a frequency advantage) and be less worried about killing their cards.

[der8auer]

hahah if it beats der8auer must be validated by video ^^.

 

Yea mass, thanks for doing all you could. lets get this show on the road

 

Haha sounds like a solid meme

 

@ Sam: You have to go by the worst card and not by the best. That doesnt make sense. Some might need the epower already for 1250 MHz and some might not need it.

Edited July 4, 2013 by der8auer

[TaPaKaH]

You have to go by the worst card and not by the best. That doesnt make sense. Some might need the epower already for 1250 MHz and some might not need it.

That's my point exactly. If 1250 is doable on stock VRM, why would I have to bin ridicilously expensive Titans to find one that can do it? In the end, my performance at 1250 will be exactly the same as the guy, who got 1250 out of the non-modded card.

[cyclone]

@Massman, der8auer If you do make those strict ati-Epower video rules for VGAs will there be any anti-ES Haswell demand? How will you treat 'suspiciously high' reatil freqs? Describe the 'suspiciously high' in numbers please.

Deciding beforehand is better than scratching heads in the end, and concerning all the pro-benchers already have to make the proof anyway it won't take much complains to do the same for CPUs. IMO to be fair and treat everything equally.

[TaPaKaH]

isn't screenshot with CPU-Z mandatory?

[der8auer]

@Massman, der8auer If you do make those strict ati-Epower video rules for VGAs will there be any anti-ES Haswell demand? How will you treat 'suspiciously high' reatil freqs? Describe the 'suspiciously high' in numbers please.

Deciding beforehand is better than scratching heads in the end, and concerning all the pro-benchers already have to make the proof anyway it won't take much complains to do the same for CPUs. IMO to be fair and treat everything equally.

 

you're right. The video rule has to be changed to:

 

The video has to include at least the last 5 seconds of the running benchmark, the achieved score and the GPU (boost) clock in Nvidia Inspector. After capturing the result you have to move over to the system and show the graphics card including a detailed shot of the power area. Afterwards you have to unmount the pot while the system is running to show the IHS so we can ensure no ES CPU was used.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 4, 2013 by der8auer

[cyclone]

isn't screenshot with CPU-Z mandatory?

Till there were some double-testbed ideas or just 'running 1700 on stock pwm' it won't be that hard to follow that way and erase the 'ES' mark even with Paint for SPi. To avoid first ppl were asked to make videos. To avoid second - >?

 

It's marasmus yeah but till I'm interested in MOA despite all that madness I just had to ask.

Edited July 4, 2013 by cyclone

[der8auer]

I won't go into details but to remove two letters is not enough to make it look like a retail. I also think the guys participating in the MOA should be professional enough to follow the rules and not to cheat.

[cyclone]

I won't go into details but to remove two letters is not enough to make it look like a retail. I also think the guys participating in the MOA should be professional enough to follow the rules and not to cheat.

Ok thanks for that.

[DrWeez]

I won't go into details but to remove two letters is not enough to make it look like a retail. I also think the guys participating in the MOA should be professional enough to follow the rules and not to cheat.

 

you would think that, but after some of the comments you just don't know anymore. respected are now suspected. what a shame.

[Vivi]

I won't go into details but to remove two letters is not enough to make it look like a retail. I also think the guys participating in the MOA should be professional enough to follow the rules and not to cheat.

 

i agree man, we all are honorable clockers here. if someone goes as far as running 2 systems to fake a video it will just be a lol and a shame

[icebob]

My point with the 7790 is 1500 is fairly easy, we don't have a cold slow bios so I don't see the point to hook up an epower to run the card at -2/-5c! so I think you're going a little overboard with that video thingy, I've never upload a video before, don't have a frikkin clue how to do it, and just getting the right screenshot already take all my little change... just saying...

[Massman]

you would think that, but after some of the comments you just don't know anymore. respected are now suspected. what a shame.

 

It's a paradox. One the one hand there's people complaining that there seems to be this "guilty until proven innoncence" attitude from the HWBOT staff (which I don't necessarily agree with) and on the other hand we have community members asking for all sorts of backdoor workarounds to maybe get something that is not allowed working anyway.

 

Trust within the community is not something we can arrange top-down. It has to come from within. And trust doesn't only include the public statements, but also via private message. Sometimes I'd see someone congratulate a user on a record in public and then send a private message asking us to check up on the result because it might be cheated.

 

Anyway, I still believe that for 99% of the people and results here at the bot there is no problem with trust. After all, this is still just overclocking. It's a hobby for the grand majority.