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Team runs


mtzki
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Got a question about team runs guys , may be you can make it more clear :) Ok , heres the story - 2 members from another team , aparently from one city , had a bench party and created a new member/bot to upload results from that bench session . Nothing wrong about that but the thing is that EACH of those 2 members already has results submited with that video card model that was used in that team bench session , 8800GTX Single and SLI . Is it legal and alowed ... to create a bot user and upload results from hardware you already have results published on your real accounts ?

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Please use only one of the existing accounts or make a shared account for the subteam.

How many shared accounts for sub-teams can be created in one team?

It is possible to make few (3-4) accounts named like "<cityname>-subteam" for users who lives in one city and benching together sometimes?

I think counts of shared accounts must be limited because it may be used just for getting "another set" of global hwpoints... so my question is - how many shared accounts per team allowed?

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So now this Moscow_Subteam scores should be blocked or is this legal?

 

I can take my hardware over to another member's house, we can bench as a subteam with this hardware and add points to the team? Both members of this "sub-team" are already in the roster for the main team and are earning points for this hardware.

The scores for the individuals are not the same as the scores for the sub-team, but you should not just be able to create a sub-team with existing members just to get more points... should you?

 

Sub-team: http://www.hwbot.org/user.do?userId=10238

 

Individual Users on Sub-Team:

http://www.hwbot.org/user.do?userId=5961

http://www.hwbot.org/user.do?userId=6680

 

They got together and basically added 350+ points to the team because they ran Single and Dual cards.

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Well, it's an annoying subject. As the hwbot contest isn't done in a controlled environment, we have no way to be 100% sure people aren't swapping one cherry picked 8800Ultra around between team mates.

 

Our official standpoint is this: sharing hardware for a one time bench session is allowed, but actively sharing hardware in order to get more points, is prohibited.

 

We know we can't fully enforce this rule, we can only give warnings when we suspect ill behavior and act accordingly when there is no response.

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Ok, so basically what I see and understand is this:

 

1) I can take my hardware (which is all giving me points and will continue to do so as I push it further) and get together with a fellow team member who also brings some of his hardware.

 

2) We can bench and create a new user for this "bench session" submitting all the results from it, as long as they are not any of our own scores from previous runs.

 

3) If these runs place that "team" in an area that earns hwboints, the sub-team and team will be credited with those points as shown in the above example.

 

Do I have that right?

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Exactly my point jmke .... I don't like it, I don't particularly intend to do it, but I want to know what my team is up against ;)

 

I think you should just say no, you can't have a "sub-team" consisting of members that have individual scores.

 

If you have a group of guys that don't submit individual scores, that want to get together and have recognition/contribution as a group...more power to them.

But for team members to just decide to get together on a weekend, then make a new user, call it a "sub-team" and have it earn over 300 points in the same categories that individually have already been granted hwboints. I don't care for it.

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I totally agree that this is wrong. I brought up a question to the BE team a few months back. My gf was getting into ocing. I asked the team whether I should let her bench my rig on LN2 and submit the scores. I would give her suggestions as to what was wrong when she walled but it would be up to her. Overall the majority suggested it wasn't ethical. So now it is ok for me to grab my rig and visit each player on the BE bench team and submit a score while benching with each one? I believe 2 members are in NJ and another 2-3 in NY so saying 5 differant bench sessions with the HW I have and we can earn the team an easy 200-300 each session. This would mean a quick extra 1000-1500 pts. for the team or more. I think the higher score wether it be the the individual user or team effort should be kept but a team should not have a score allowed for both a single user and a team. If this be the case why have team scores? I think it would cause false results among all teams. If you want to make this fair on any level this should not be allowed. As a matter of fact to scare people out of doing this sort of thing there should be a post or front page stating so. Give the teams time to adjust there scores and if not have the teams banned from the hwbot system.

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harleybro

 

You pretty much summed it up in that post. I think most teams would view what you proposed with your gf the same as BE did. For the majority of teams there probably doesn't need to be a rule covering this type of submission. It's clearly a form of double dipping so to speak. But now that at least one team has cast ethics aside and it has been approved by HWBot most teams are going to have to rethink their position. Because at the end of the day the playing field has to be level.

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But now that at least one team has cast ethics aside and it has been approved by HWBot most teams are going to have to rethink their position. Because at the end of the day the playing field has to be level.

 

I agree.......funny it almost makes submissions here worthless, especially when it is so easy to rack up points just by visiting others. I thought the whole point of the newer version was to generate charts and logs of useful data to compare. I guess you now need to factor in a divider on what you think may possibley be the same hardware being run in a differant location.

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But for team members to just decide to get together on a weekend, then make a new user, call it a "sub-team" and have it earn over 300 points in the same categories that individually have already been granted hwboints. I don't care for it.

 

Lets hope hwbot staff wont allow that sort of unethical behavior on hwbot :(

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Lets hope hwbot staff wont allow that sort of unethical behavior on hwbot :(
Our official standpoint is this: sharing hardware for a one time bench session is allowed

Sounds like it has already been decided. Nothing is ever cast in stone though. Maybe this decision will be reversed in the future. :)

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I suspect a working solution would be that team scores are only derived from a specified number (and listed) set of team members. Like in team sports - so many active players in the game and unlike most team sports unspecified number of substitutes. That is inclusive of collective benching sessions. In other words any team score would only be made up of a pre determined number of team member submissions, be it the complete team collective benching as one group, groups of the team pooling equipment and benching together or individuals benching alone. What the ideal number would be is up to the moderation and admin staff to deciede. Each team captain would have to nominate which "members" are to be included in the team listings. The desiginated team caption can change team members as and when she/he sees fit. Much like any sporting event, substituting players in and out of the game. Once in your results are then inlcuded into the totals accruing for the team total if you as a member are substituted out of the game (so to speak) your results are removed from the totals accruing for that team. But of course the individual results will still remain and accrue individual points but not team points.

 

The coding is not to difficult I would suspect and designated team captain can either edit team lists them self (the option I would suggest) or pm mod staff to do so.

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So lets say ... 2 people from a team , that already have boints posted to their accounts from non group benching with 8800GTX and 8800GTX SLI are allowed to create a phantom bot , get together and add another 300-350 easy boints out from nowhere to their team ? How's that make sense ?

Nobody is going to take action about that ? :/

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So lets say ... 2 people from a team , that already have boints posted to their accounts from non group benching with 8800GTX and 8800GTX SLI are allowed to create a phantom bot , get together and add another 300-350 easy boints out from nowhere to their team ? How's that make sense ?

Nobody is going to take action about that ? :/

 

We're working on it ... we can't just ban their account, because that would be even more unethical.

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We're working on it ... we can't just ban their account, because that would be even more unethical.

If by banning the account you mean the the overall account then yes that would be wrong. But removing the sub-team scores should not be an issue.

 

I have looked through the top 20 teams. It was a quick glance so if this is not accurate I apologize. No other team appears to have submitted scores by a phantom member made up of existing members with posted scores. The only conclusion that can be drawn from this is even if there is no rule explicitly forbidding this type of entry 19 out of 20 teams know that ethically and morally this would be against the spirit of what HWbot is about.

 

If I were to create a sub-team and submit a score and it was later discovered that I was the only person of that so-called team you would have no issue with deleting my score as a minimum response. This situation is no different other then the fact that the entry consists of two members with countable scores instead of just one.

 

Everyone that is a member of HWbot knows that only one score is countable for any one type of given hardware. To allow this type of score to remain is not only a slap in the face of all other teams but also to HWbot itself. I, no we ask that you do the right thing in this matter so that this type of thing cannot happen in the future. Several of the top 20 teams have already voiced their disapproval of allowing this type of behavior. The only right thing to do in this matter is to delete the scores of the sub-teams and state that this is not allowed. Or freeze the sub-team's points at it's current value and give all other teams the same amount of points.

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In other words any team score would only be made up of a pre determined number of team member submissions, be it the complete team collective benching as one group, groups of the team pooling equipment and benching together or individuals benching alone.

 

So once again the team can earn points that it has already earned as individuals? If there is a team then I believe no members of the team should be able to submit results for the hardware used on an individual basis. Each run done by the team could easily be submitted under a single users ID and have the team members listed in the description. Ex. If three ppl bench together why not list all 01 scores under one user, all 03 scores under another user, and finally all 05 scores under the last user. If it is such a team effort this shouldn't be too difficult to work out amongst themselves.

 

We're working on it ... we can't just ban their account, because that would be even more unethical.

 

Maybe unethical but the scores could easily be blocked. This sub-team in question was logged into the forums yesterday afternoon but had nothing to add to the thread.? What is so unethical about blocking scores that are causing so much contraversy until a solution is determined?

 

I have looked through the top 20 teams. It was a quick glance so if this is not accurate I apologize. No other team appears to have submitted scores by a phantom member made up of existing members with posted scores. The only conclusion that can be drawn from this is even if there is no rule explicitly forbidding this type of entry 19 out of 20 teams know that ethically and morally this would be against the spirit of what HWbot is about.

 

I agree about the teams but there is one team that made a jump recently and it appears as though results may be being submitted by more then one user. Four out of the top 5 members all have similiar results and similiar HW runs all using LN2. Some runs submitted within a day or two of each other. Mind you this team is comprised of two seperate forums that recently combined.

 

 

Everyone that is a member of HWbot knows that only one score is countable for any one type of given hardware. To allow this type of score to remain is not only a slap in the face of all other teams but also to HWbot itself. I, no we ask that you do the right thing in this matter so that this type of thing cannot happen in the future. Several of the top 20 teams have already voiced their disapproval of allowing this type of behavior. The only right thing to do in this matter is to delete the scores of the sub-teams and state that this is not allowed. Or freeze the sub-team's points at it's current value and give all other teams the same amount of points.

 

Praz this couldn't have been said any better!

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