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TridentX + Z77X-UD5H: Set TRRD=7


Leeghoofd
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Nope had it enabled and even disabled it still doesn't post further then 15, then shuts down if manual timings set ( in reference to what the bios reads out from the XMP profile )

 

Dimms post fine at 2666 with 11-13-13-35 2T TRFC 147 on Gene V and Sabretooth... no idea what's up with this board... up to 2400 all is okay, from 2600 divider hell breaks loose.

 

EDIT

 

Messed with the timings, started to compare the read outs via MemTweakit. Adjusted manually setting by setting till we got a post. tRRD, tRSSR and tWWSR are the trick !

 

Issue 1: board bios badly reads out the timings set by user or XMP (see RED)

 

rambios.jpg

 

rambios2.jpg

 

Issue 2: culprit to post at high speeds (+2600) is the too tight tRRD setting, needs to be at 6 to post here with the TridentX kit.

 

Do not touch the tRWDRDD timing, leave on auto. Any value set here results in a no boot.

 

Super Dino will fix this for sure !!!

Edited by Leeghoofd
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Nice find, Leeghoofd!

 

it is set low to better efficiency and performance.

 

That's a stupid reason not to allow 'clocking over DDR3-2600. Don't tell me that one timing is giving you so incredibly much more performance that high MHz should just not work ;).

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Bios department needs to fix these things Steven. I'm not saying the above works for everybody, but at least my UD5H board post stable with all timings set at AUTO, just tRRD to 6 and to increase stability tRRSR to 5 manually adjusted.

 

Fixes needed :

 

1) Settings read out should be correct, otherwise there's no use for the given info.

2) Just force tRRD at 6, tRSSR to 5, when selecting 2600 or higher divider and maybe remove the tRWDRDD setting in the bios. Board at least needs to be able to post at 2600 or 2666 divider. Stability is another thing.

3) And why not finally allow vcore read out again via CPU-Z and co...

 

Imagine you are buying a high end motherboard and iddem ditto specced ram kit and the combo doesn't even post. The XMP profile boots, but voltages ( VTT and co )are mad (G.Skill thing ofcourse ) Do you agree it's not a win win situation. Who do you think will they blame in the end ? The RAM vendor or your company ?

 

YFI on the ASUS boards we experienced bad samples too ( DLX working only with single channel, etc... ) MSI GD65 has got some issues too with high ram speeds.

 

As always tweaking can be done manually later ( for those that feel the need to do it )

 

C'mon Gigabyte you can do it ! Time to fix compatibility iso aiming at efficiency

Edited by Leeghoofd
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i can set my 2600 XMP profile for my teams and they boot just fine on this UD5H.

 

That's what XMP profiles are for Vivi :D

 

My point is I need to adjust manually for eg for the Flares ( as the XMP is 2000c7) I didn't get there unless I did the above settings

 

If you do this on another board, it might work with just adjusting the main timings to eg 9-12-9-27 with the Flares, the Giga needs more work ;)

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I use some crappy single sided hynix(2000mhz cas9), i can boot at 2666 without touching those tertiary timings, just loading XMP and loosening the first set and some second set of timings, but all 3rd are the same as at stock.

 

I can ask for above 2600-2666 to have some of the tertiaries maxed out, but Dino would have to make a request like that as it would affect the performance of the boards, however who really goes above that and doesn't use XMP? If if they did i would hope they know how to set their timings, as that is no go zone. one of the main things that the engineers at GB worked on was getting XMP profiles working correctly, so they expect the user to use XMP these days. I mean seriously if I bought a TridentX 2666 kit and i tossed it in and didn't set XMP and i wanted 2666, well then I would just feel like i don't expect it to work, unless somehow the board can read my mind, or has its timings set so lose it would take days to tighten them.

Edited by sin0822
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one of the main things that the engineers at GB worked on was getting XMP profiles working correctly

 

G.Skill F3-17000CL8D-4GBXMD with XMP 8-9-8-24-CR1,on UD3H in Windows 8-9-13-24-CR2 !!.

 

http://ggts.gigabyte.com.tw/ClientUserFile/OK/1230522/1.jpg

http://ggts.gigabyte.com.tw/ClientUserFile/OK/1230522/2.jpg

http://ggts.gigabyte.com.tw/ClientUserFile/OK/1230522/3.jpg

http://ggts.gigabyte.com.tw/ClientUserFile/OK/1230522/4.jpg

 

Pi32m can get only with CL.9.

GB need to enhance memory performance at least 50% of Asus settings.

Edited by stasio
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tRWDRDD has a major impact on performance, and should NOT/Never be removed or set auto by the BIOS and then hidden/non-user adjustable!!

 

You can adjust this setting yourself, then it's depending on the ram kit if it's going to boot or not, too low and it'll fail of course.

 

You can see what auto sets for that on your board/mem by using Memtweakit, note in my image I have edited the program to correctly show which value this is on Z77

 

jDEMc.jpg

 

I've actually found tWCL to be the culprit of no boot at 2600 for me, more than a few times on a few sets of memory. It should be CL -1, but there is times where that fails or the BIOS will set CL -2 (or sometimes it sets -1 but you need -2, ect), so sometimes you need to set manually, and sometimes you need to set this to CL = tWCL or manually set tWCL to CL -1, -2, ect *Edit* Sometimes you may also need to set tWCL manually to less than expected, for example, sometimes for me even at CAS 10 if I set tWCL to -1 (9) it'll fail and give 51 post code, same for CAS 11. In those instances usually when I set tWCL to 7 or 8 it would then boot and work, 8 usually works the best for me. So there is something funky going on at certain CAS levels in Z77, or the BIOS itself, not sure which but I know this setting needs to be set manually most of the time and it's not often what you'd expect to have to set or what you'd expect should/should not work. *

 

Thanks for the tRRD tip too, I'll see if that helps on any of the kits I've been playing with.

 

Someone needs to share some of those 2400-2600 G.Skill SPD's, so Samsung users can have a proper XMP to try and work with (Still impossible to set above 2200 for everyone that last I've seen)!!

Edited by Lsdmeasap
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I tried the 2400 g.skill SPD on the Samsung low profile sticks but still can't post higher than 2200 .

 

Also , all my PSC sticks clock about 50 Mhz lower than Asus even with higher voltage.

For example ... Asus 2600Mhz 8-12-8 @ 1.83V ... Giga 2550Mhz 8-12-8 @ 1.90V

All the available subtimings are the same . Bios & memtweakit

Edited by Stelaras
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There isn't a TRWDR setting that I can see (UD3H), or am I missing it? And I think it's not, which is what gave me the idea to edit the name in Memtweakit once I noticed what it really was. I only left the TRWDR in Memtweakit like that so I would remember where it was in case I needed to add back later for some reason.

 

If you set TRWDRDD to 8 or above, then you will see poor bandwidth, then lower in windows one at a time and you'll see bandwidth go up dramatically as you get lower.

 

That's why I said leave and don't hide, it's kinda like tRD on old platforms. Finally Z77 has brought actual memory tweaking performance to DDR3, other settings have good impact as well, unlike many of the DDR3 platforms before Z77.

 

I have not looked for the exact correlation in Memtweakit for TWRDRDD, not sure if it's even there (Or maybe I looked already and it wasn't, so I didn't change CR)? If it is and you know which it is, I can change the wording for ya if you want, let me know.

 

Also, if you want a copy of my edited version let me know, I only edited the Z77 timing description, it will still show whatever names are default for other chipsets.

 

I don't have any G.Skills myself, I've been testing with 8GB kit's of BFR's, and 4GB kits of PSC/BBSE mainly. Would love to push on my Sammy's, but have yet to see anyone post a G.Skill profile so I can try it myself.

 

Someone please post, like Stelaras, please share! Thanks! I'd love to try myself! If anyone shares please be sure it's from a double sided Samsung kit. Stelaras, was the SPD you tested from a double sided samsung kit, were you positive on that? Just wondering

 

Also, my comments above about tWCL were discovered on PSC (XDZ.... A3G-A), and that's mainly what I've played with it on so far (Just discovered). But I'm pretty sure with it auto setting incorrectly at times that would affect any kit, unsure if XMP enable would change that behavior or not, don't have any Z77 XMP memory to test with.

 

I'll be testing your tRRD finding shortly, thanks a lot! That's one setting I probably never thought auto would set too low, so I'm sure it's probably been a big part of memory hassles for me at times too.

 

*Edit*

 

Also see above for my edits, after looking back at my notes I see I previously worded the above a little incorrectly.

 

I also think Gigabyte needs to remove IDE detection from the BIOS routines, A0 shouldn't be normal for the debug code while in windows. Of course it's going to stop there at initialize IDE since there is no IDE, so it should be removed.

 

What do other Z77 debug coders show in windows? I know I could be wrong as Z77 might be different, but I'd expect for Gigabyte that's the ONLY reason it stalls there. That could also be holding us back on other things, who knows!?!?

 

I plan to inquire about that myself, just trying to wrap up too many reviews at once right now so I haven't had a chance yet, but I will shortly!

Edited by Lsdmeasap
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I looked into the tRRD thing a little bit, haven't played with 2600 with your info in mind yet so not sure how much if any that will help me there, but here's what I'm seeing so far.

 

I am not using XMP, all manual/or auto, expert mode Turbo or Extreme (Both = same on this).

 

At 2133 tRDD Auto = 7 actual (Reflected in MIT status and windows)

At 2400 tRDD Auto = 8 actual (Reflected in MIT status and windows)

 

So I'd expect 2600 tRRD Auto = Maybe 8 / Probably 9 or above, no way is it going to auto set 4.

 

What you see on the left of the BIOS is never the actual used setting, it never has been from what I've seen in any Gigabyte BIOS. Maybe it's correct/actual sometimes if you use XMP not really sure on that as I never use it, but I've always told users to ignore the left side values as they're never actual but only what the board used previously at some time in the past or sometimes what auto thinks might work (But also never uses anyway)

 

So that 4 you are seeing on the left for auto is not actually what the BIOS is attempting to use at 2600 or above, I can assure you of that. Great to hear setting 7 is working for you though, 8+ might help even more too now that I've looked at those auto setting for that value, depending on your kits and other settings, voltages, ect.

 

But you can use tRRD 4 at 2400, I know that for sure as that's what I used for 2400 in my review (tRRD 4 / tFAW 16-20, they are connected so this also might be a factor for you when setting tRRD). Not sure how low you can take it at 2600 though, my CPU is iffy there on water, and I don't have any Z77 XMP kits (Or any memory meant for Z77 so this may be part of the issue too?). Anyway I've only been able to play with that a little bit for now, until I have some time to get my CPU frozen or better memory, not sure if this CPU will be able to bench there or not.

 

Hope that helps some!!

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I tested our 3 teritary timings, for me tRSSR is the most important boost in bandwith performance, tRWDRDD and tWRDRDD hardly give anything 200-300MB/s

 

Biggest influence is tRSSR. lowest usable range at 2666mhz is 4, setting 3 will give similar performance as 7

 

tssrs.png

 

tRWDRDD sees slight gains in Read and Copy. Value 3 BSODs

 

trwdrdd.png

 

tWRDRDD similar to tRWDRDD increase, but can set value from 1-7 without any big losses...

 

twrdrdd2.png

 

Are the UD3H bios and/or the UD5H's settings mixed up ?

Edited by Leeghoofd
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Very nice testing results! Sorry, I didn't look back at my notes when commenting on performance above, and must have been confused on which settings exactly gave best performance increases, but I know I'm happy to see all the new tertiary timings as it's a great move in the right direction for DDR3! Looks like you are correct about the performance gains and TRSSR

 

Where are you seeing tRWDR in the BIOS? Does UD5H have this and UD3H not? In Memtweakit, on UD3H anyway, TRWDR is TRWDRDD that is why I changed the name of the setting. Haha, I just read your last comment!! I'm lost too, are you seeing TRWDR in the BIOS or not? It's not in UD3H BIOS at all, and TRWDRDD directly changes to anything I set it at in Memtweakit, so I'm certain that is what it is. I think we are both referring to the same setting, only you are saying what Memtweakit calls it, and I'm saying what the BIOS name for that setting is... Right?

Edited by Lsdmeasap
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OK, I just looked in UD5H BIOS S4 see below, and there is no TRWDR so it's the same as UD3H

 

It would be nice if we could access all of the memory settings though, might get those Sammy's going or something?!!

 

ssyJZ.jpg

Edited by Lsdmeasap
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as far as the samsungs go, ED i reported this over and over. I also gave them a set of PCS of mine, so they could look into it too. Apart from the generic samsungs(b/c normal samsungs seems to OC very fine) and apart from PSC for the most part(as i am pretty sure I saw cookie OC with PCS off the charts man, he just put in all the timings manually) the other memory OC fine. So those two are on the list now for not fully compatible, shame too on the samsungs I bet it is something stupid. Are you using the most recent beta LSD? BTW what one thing that is EXTREMELY odd with the samsungs, try to just use 1 stick, i bet you will boot upwards of 2666. 2 sticks much lower, that shouldn't be. I also don't think it matters if you put the 1 sticks in DIMM1 or DIMM2.

 

There is some incompatibility with some kits, there are just so many DDR kits, however what i was trying to convery is always set XMP and then go from there with the GB boards.

Edited by sin0822
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Tried my BBSE kit on the UD5H, sort off stable at 2600mhz at 1.83Vdimm. any tighter on the tert timings and she will crash... for TRCD 11 I need to go 1.87Vdimm... I need Zen Effect's sticks looooooooool

 

BBSEUD5H2.png

 

C'mon Steve who cares about one stick versus two :P

Edited by Leeghoofd
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Tried my BBSE kit on the UD5H, sort off stable at 2600mhz at 1.83Vdimm. any tighter on the tert timings and she will crash... for TRCD 11 I need to go 1.87Vdimm... I need Zen Effect's sticks looooooooool

 

you and me both!

 

ive got some psc im playing with right now... have some different bbse stashed away for a rainy day... cpu is totally NOT cooperating though lol.

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Leeghoofd,

what you get with BBSE in XMP setting?

and what is your BBSE setting for daily use with Vdimm 1.65-1.66v?

Thanks.

 

My UD3H/D3H:

My XMP is 8-9-13-24-CR2 in Windows and BIOS MIT Current Status.

However,XMP is correct in BIOS Advanced Memory Setting/Ch.A

Pass Pi32 only with CL.9 (1.65V).

Edited by stasio
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