gulftown ES vs Retail

[Massman]

-sigh-

 

I'm not pretending anything here. If it would be necessary, I can digg up several documents proving that we're trying to work something out where both normal users and marketing overclockers can benefit from without making things we want to control uncontrolable. Several post have been used to explain why it's not as simple as just removing them all, posts you've apparently not read or do not wish to comment on when you notice your arguments start to fall apart. As a last resort, you now start to make anything I say look invalid by making predictions for which you have no base other than personal feelings.

 

There's a reason why I'm saying you remind me of Belgian politicians: using bold statements and suggesting 'solutions' without thinking about the consequences of the proposed solution. Sure, it all sounds very appealing.

[BenchZowner]

Yeah I can imagine the pain...

statements from the E.S. holocaust survivors "It was a nightmare, I lost all my good scores and I'm now ranked 50th", "I spent... a few e-mails on getting that cherrypicked E.S. visiting Intel Tajikistan to bench there, and now they took all my 50.000$ worth scores away"

[knopflerbruce]

It was their decision to spend their money on E.S.

They took the risk, and knew that they might get disallowed sooner or later.

 

In that case, shall the retail buyers ask for a compensation for making their investments in retail CPU's worthless ?

 

If an athlete decides to take drugs to enhance his performance, it's his decision, and if he gets caught or a new regulation adding his drug in the disallowed meds list arises, it's his fault and he doesn't deserve a compensation.

 

After all buying E.S. hardware is illegal.

And well... they can sell them just like they bought them...

 

No, there was no discussion when most people bought their chips, and DEFINATELY no words from the guys who actually have the power to change the rules. Lots of athletes have custom made gear that you can't really buy in a retail store, no complaints there... drugs = mipmap and other cheats, not the equipment itself...

 

The crazy engineering samples came before the retails, so whoever bought a retail had the chance to know about the A0 mania before they purchased... big difference there. Plus, "worthless" is hard to define. You can get 20-30 boints for retails, no problem at all (unless you pick a dud, which is not our problem...) - whereas banning a CPU means ZERO boints.

 

Maybe we should start making people sign some papers before they join, where they're not permitted to abuse RMA policies either (which I'm sure 99% of the more serious guys do regularly, gear ran above specs = warranty void). Plus, Intel have the power to stop the sellers, but they don't. It's clear that they don't care. If they don't, why should we? That note on the site means very little when they use NO resources whatsoever to actually limit the number of chips in circulation.

[BenchZowner]

As far as I remember there was an E.S. conversation some years ago, a few months or 1 year after HWbot appeared...

[Antinomy]

remind me of Belgian politicians: using bold statements and suggesting 'solutions' without thinking about the consequences of the proposed solution.

You think only Belgian?

 

 

 

Guys, I'm kind of a noob and even the ES costs too much for me atm, but I've got an idea.

 

All thus buzzing began only when the ES became overclocking better than retail samples, yes? Nobody minds of using an older ES CPU - it's even worse than retail usually.

 

The situation was new with Clarks and Gulfs.

 

Benchzowner, I don't agree with your statement about "people knew that ES will be restricted sooner or later" - no. The HWBot state was "they are allowed after their retail equivalent is available". And everybody who asked (people didn't take risk) where answered to as above.

 

So why don't we make the above statement a bit more wide? "ES are allowed after their retail equivalent hits the shelf and it's not dramatically better (doesn't give an unbeatable gain)".

 

But you have to think that not everyone in this world gets ES for free. Yes, I've seen a foto when a member of our countries team is near a tray with about 20 CPUs. And some other teams won't be able to even have a look at Gulftown this year. But some maybe have the money and buy it. But they buy it specially for benching because it's allowed.

 

So I agree with Massman. And I suggest to make the rule wider but for the next generations. I don't think somebody has an outstanding Sandy bridge now that can rip the future retails. But we can later see the ES capabilities, compare to retails and see whether it should be allowed or disallowed.

 

And another one - in case of disallowement, they should have differences that can be verified by software - or how will you say is it a ES or no?

 

P.S. sorry for too many words

[knopflerbruce]

As far as I remember there was an E.S. conversation some years ago, a few months or 1 year after HWbot appeared...

 

And when nothing happened then, and several years after, doesn't that mean that everything was fine about ES chips being used?

[Antinomy]

That time the story was different - everyone agreed that the ES don't perform better and usually perform even worse than retails. This is the point, the only one as I see.

[AndreYang]

I want to ask a simple question. If I submit 6.7G+ results with retail 980X, is this thread closed? If yes, I can do it.

[Alriin]

No, Andre! :-)

[knopflerbruce]

Post whaever you've got, Andre:D

[Hollywood]

I want to ask a simple question. If I submit 6.7G+ results with retail 980X, is this thread closed? If yes, I can do it.

 

go ahead!

[euklidis]

Go ahead. post a 3dmark05 for example with 6.7+ with a retail...

[Kal-EL]

I want to ask a simple question. If I submit 6.7G+ results with retail 980X, is this thread closed? If yes, I can do it.

 

Yes, submit result with retail beating pants off ES. Then there would be no more arguments to keep ES chips in the rankings because retail is better.

 

Never again will we be arguing about ES because now it is gone from rankings and Top 10 Overclockers are happy because Retail pwns ES.

 

Go find Andy's batch guys

[Leeghoofd]

Bin us 100 CPU's Andre, I will buy the crap one that does only 6.1 3D , that's already fine for my standards

 

Why don't you compete in GOOC anymore ?

[Hollywood]

Darn! Now you have to follow two threads for one toppic, someone should close this one!

[Massman]

I won't close this one; it contains info as well.

[euklidis]

I want to ask a simple question. If I submit 6.7G+ results with retail 980X, is this thread closed? If yes, I can do it.

 

If you can post a 3dmark 05 for example with a retail @6.7+ why you keep fighting with a crappy 980X ES who can only overclock to 6.6 on 3dmark05?

[$@39@]

We should feel very lucky that Andre left us some cpus to play with...ok euklidis? Now shut the f**k up.

[euklidis]

ooow with the post, and cause there is no way to prove that the cpus is retail we would like a video with a close up to the cpuz @ 6.7 and the benchmark...

[euklidis]

+ i believe that a week from now is a decent period of time to try some cpus and post the 6.7+ score you said you can achive... maybe you can stream it too right andre?

[steponz]

I would love to see a retail that can take out most of the ES chips.. in not just one, but a couple ES's... Then I would be happy with keeping ES's as they were.

 

I still think they need come up with a new pro/amateur classes..

[steponz]

Mass, Can you please update us on your thoughts of what your thinking of doing?

 

I think your communication with some of the thoughts.. instead of just thinking about it...

[Massman]

Currently some discussion going on in the staff forums, playing with some ideas there. I'll give a heads up later this week when we got the initial problems solved.

[steponz]

Thanks for the update Mass..

 

Very much appreciated.

 

I have lots of ideas.. if you need another head.. let me know..