SF3D Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 I think we all can ask, when did everything go wrong? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor941 Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 I have made an internal survey among my team-mates, most of them think that ES should be allowed for WR but not for points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuchnit Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 I think we all can ask, when did everything go wrong? Â Everything started to really go wrong with Clarkdale ES just being retarded vs. retail. Then it continued and I would argue worse with Gulftown since they cost $1000 a piece. Then GTX480 and the stupid cold slow bug which there is a fix for, but only a handful of benchers got the mod. Â Or we could back up a little further and say that a large problem is the people that have a large influence or say-so in the rules around here have something to loose by changing anything. I got 1-2 people on my team right now that have a better than good chance of taking down 03 and possibly single socket vantage, but the stupid cold slow bug is preventing this. Pretty much garbage if you ask me that this mod is so damn private. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaPaKaH Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 I think sponsorship discussions are to be kept out of this topic... If they'll be limited to retail - sponsored guys will have the most/best retail hardware If ES are allowed - sponsored guys will have the best/most hardware to bin whatever it is - retail or ES. Period  If we're discussing ES vs retail only taking into account Gulftown chips, I foresaw this problem long before GT has hit retail even (ask Massman ) Anyone who has tested at least five CPUs of each stepping (including me) will confirm that on average A0 do indeed clock better than B0/B1.  The only question to be answered - are ES to be allowed for ranks?  All depends on who we (overclockers) want to listen most to a) Intel, who are saying that ES are illegal to own (so you're submitting scores with hardware you don't own, etc) b) "some guys/companies" who have improved their ranks/ratings by using ES chips 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuchnit Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 I think sponsorship discussions are to be kept out of this topic...If they'll be limited to retail - sponsored guys will have the most/best retail hardware If ES are allowed - sponsored guys will have the best/most hardware to bin whatever it is - retail or ES. Period  If we're discussing ES vs retail only taking into account Gulftown chips, I foresaw this problem long before GT has hit retail even (ask Massman ) Anyone who has tested at least five CPUs of each stepping (including me) will confirm that on average A0 do indeed clock better than B0/B1.  The only question to be answered - are ES to be allowed for ranks?  All depends on who we (overclockers) want to listen most to a) Intel, who are saying that ES are illegal to own (so you're submitting scores with hardware you don't own, etc) b) "some guys/companies" who have improved their ranks/ratings by using ES chips  Who is griping about sponsered clockers here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF3D Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 Everything started to really go wrong with Clarkdale ES just being retarded vs. retail. Â You are talking only few months back in time.. Â This evolution have been going on few years now. Slowly in to this direction we are heading now. Â I feel sorry about most of the stuff which is happening lately. Year 2009 was full of S**t and this will be worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuchnit Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 You are talking only few months back in time.. Â This evolution have been going on few years now. Slowly in to this direction we are heading now. Â I feel sorry about most of the stuff which is happening lately. Year 2009 was full of S**t and this will be worse. Â Ya I know there is a long history that lead up to this, but I think clarkdale, Gulftown, and finally Fermi has brought people to their boiling point. I could probably type for an hour on what I think the problems in the community are, but I don't have the time to type it, nor the patience for the same old people to come in and make excuses for what I say, and why I'm wrong. Â Â SF3D, I haven't been in this game for very long, but in the short time you are a respectful person so me quoting you didn't mean I was accusing you of any wrong doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF3D Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 No worries! I can handle criticism well. Â But you could write your thoughts and so could everyone else. If we have more opinions, it is more easy to evaluate things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gomeler Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 This hobby has been circling the drain since it started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
road-runner Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 I found a cheaper hobby myself, gardening. When I throw a little to much nitrogen on the plant and it burns up and dies it doesn't cost much and I can eat the results... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiwa Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 (edited) I will be the "bad" guy once again!.... Â SF3D how do you feel while you loose places from top 20 from Hiwa while he's benching at Computex with NickShih's rig?.....Do you feel happy?..... Â Everyone's benching with another's rig and uploading resaults lately I see.... Â i have 3 chips george please check XS and my date threads 6500-60k 3DMARK05 done before computex with my personal chip 3dmark06 single are from my retail chip maybe one month ago we are benching everyday with defferent hardware,i bought a 480 here and someone gave me 1 for sample and modded them. btw i never used nick's rig here. i was in top5 before computex my friend. Â Have a nice Edited June 4, 2010 by Hiwa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hipro5 Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 (edited) i have 3 chips george please check XS and my date threads 6500-60k 3DMARK05 done before computex with my personal chip 3dmark06 single are from my retail chip maybe one month ago we are benching everyday with defferent hardware,i bought a 480 here and someone gave me 1 for sample and modded them. btw i never used nick's rig here. i was in top5 before computex my friend. Have a nice SR-2 with 2 x Xeons for Vantage is your's?..... Edited June 4, 2010 by hipro5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Splave Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 thought I would chime in, I had to buy an a0 of fleabay to compete in spi 32m and 1m categories. Unfortunately for me it wasnt that great of a chip 6.15ghz spi32m 6.33gh 1m as far as a0 are concerned. The feel of the a0 vs my retail is like night and day though. Retails seem to struggle with pi for some reason? Anyways I dont suggest buying ES chips especially when they are 1.2k. Â This being said I think they should be worth no points or WR's as they are not readily available to joe overclocker making them a white rabbit for the layman to chase. Its unfair, and by intel standards illegal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenchZowner Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 ^ That's a righteous man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crew Leeghoofd Posted June 4, 2010 Crew Share Posted June 4, 2010 (edited) No swearing nor cursing George, only Benchzowner got a waver for that  Hardware overclocking has never been fair has it... some get samples straight from the manufacturer (don't need to pay for them), some get access to dozens of CPU, motherboards to preselect or bin, some find the golden sample straigth in a shop while you are already on eg ya 5th 980X... while others get cherry picked ones from Intel or AMD...  Whatever you want to do by implementing rules or such, somebody will always have a backdoor open to get access to something new or better... it's human nature sadly...  Take eg the slow mod for the GTX480, who's been sharing that publicly ? Don't you find that sad ? I really do...  I never got that magic E8600 batch before , now I have one via tweakers.net and now it's my board that is FSB limited :nana:  Life goes on Edited June 4, 2010 by Leeghoofd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crew stummerwinter Posted June 4, 2010 Crew Share Posted June 4, 2010 Life goes on  You're right on this...  There is more then OCing...  But it's getting more and more diaspointing for me atm...  Even if I don't get answers on my mails, don't talk about ocers here...  Just from ES-rules itself, ES belongs to manufacturer, they should not be ranked. It's not only since GT, it's long time ago that...  Only problem I see to proof it, CPU-Z shows ES, GPU-Z doesn't...  @Petri: for you it was 2009, for me it's 2010... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massman Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 Sometimes I feel like we're in the middle of a corporate nuclear war, armed with nothing more than a kitchen knife. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knopflerbruce Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 Well... the mod stuff is quite fair. Some guy thought of something clever that worked. It's a fair game, everyone can figure it out if they have the knowledge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenchZowner Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 Well... the mod stuff is quite fair. Some guy thought of something clever that worked. It's a fair game, everyone can figure it out if they have the knowledge.  Which mod are you referring to ? Because all the GTX 480 mods were handed out by nVIDIA in a guide  I agree for self-discovered mods though, it's a personal matter if the person wants to share the mod he found or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sofos1990 Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 Seems that if someone could prohibit the ESs, this "nuclear war" would have come to an end ... As for the vgas retail cards are stronger than ESs or not ? Hardware sharing is something that cannot be detected . If someone uses another guy's rig you cannot prove it, right ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massman Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 You guys realize that the string 'ES' can be easily removed from the CPU-Z application if you change the microcode in the bios, right? If manufacturers can't, then Intel can for sure ... and the modification will also be shared with the mainboard manufacturers who want their boards to shine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenchZowner Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 You guys realize that the string 'ES' can be easily removed from the CPU-Z application if you change the microcode in the bios, right? If manufacturers can't, then Intel can for sure ... and the modification will also be shared with the mainboard manufacturers who want their boards to shine. Â It can be done, but: Â 1. You can detect an E.S. from a thousand miles away. You can't believe somebody with a 6.6GHz Pi1m retail 980X can you ? All the retails STRUGGLE with pi1m. Â 2.Not everybody knows how to do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massman Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 So we will have to resort on 'gut-moderating'? "Why did you block the score"- - "Because I have the feeling it's ES". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenchZowner Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 It's not that hard... and not so gut moderating... There are several measures that can prevent that, or at least keep things tight, for example ORB URL's required along with CPU-z validated URL for each score. Not just screensillyshots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massman Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 CPU-Z relies on microcode as well. Change that and you're set. Â Also, smart cheaters will run their ES just a tad higher than retail to make it look legit. So, detecting ES based on the CPU frequency will not work. Also, then we absolutely remove the possibility that someone just got lucky. Imagine findings a 1k $ golden chip that can do 200MHz more than the rest ... we'd have to remove it because it looks like ES. This has been a problem in the very recent past, you know ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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