knopflerbruce

Exactly! The "pro" part of hwbot was made for those with a certain amount of support AND access to engineering samples. I bet that if we create yet another league, some people will still complain because ES gets some world records that are 'unbeatable' with retails.

There's another side to this story - what about unreleased mods that require access to NDA white papers They must be banned, too, as they're based on documents not available to the public. The list of things we must ban is increasing...

I'm pretty sure that alot of software is never posted here due to NDA:D

"is not about to be better or no... is about to not be available to all." - this is the key point - it applies to certain retail parts, and software. Why just limit the discussion to ES CPUs?

Yes, and I'm pretty sure that those who complain about ES and not these "secret" software releases have access to at least one of the utilities:p

Exactly. And: The main problem seems to be the availability, not the beta/not released part. In other words: we have to ban rare retail hardware, too. If you're looking for Corsair GTX series modules... good luck! I seriously believe you have a better chance finding Haswell ES than some of those models:p I bet this applies to most really high binned kits today. When hardware is produced in a very low quantity, they're not available to anyone. Even ASUS Ares or Mars series are EXTREMELY difficult to get hold of, so in reality we'd have to demand like a minimum of... 5000-10000 samples before we can allow those parts - if the goal is that everyone interested in competing has a fair chance at getting at least one sample, assuming they have the $$$ to begin with. Personally I don't care if these things are included in the Pro Cup or not - but they should have a place here, and then we need a league/cup where those rare ones are allowed.

From what I recall, anything "pro" means ES = allowed. This place is also the only one where those chips can be used - you're in enthusiast or Xtreme league, they're not allowed. We cannot ban those from ALL competitions.

You'll end up getting the same situation with 4x Titans... get the cards, run them at stock speed, and grab a bunch of points. Only two setups weith Ln2'd GPUs this time. My 4P setup was at least run at sub-ambient temps, and I only got 3rd in the Cinebench stage (not much below ambient, but still), and if I got the VID adjustments to work I probably would've posted an LN2 4P score, too. I ran it at minus 20 or so for an hour without success:p

I buy the mobos in regular stores (wiredzone and superbiiz). CPUs... yes, ebay - and usually from sellers who ship worldwide. Memory isn't hard either, I use 16 random 2gb sticks (no ECC, we're talking PSC sticks that I've bought on ebay). Cheap and easy to find everywhere. 1gb sticks are fine, too, got 16 1gb 1333mhz samsungs running in a different setup as we speak. The fact that the server boards don't really support overclocking is only partially true, there is a modded BIOS for one of the supermicro boards allowing HTT adjustments. For mp you've got software. They're fragile, though... so prepping it for benching is time consuming (I must've spent 10+ hours with the dremel to cut all those brackets and sinks). The only real difference between these boards and a dual socket workstation (w/server chips) one (SR-2, SR-X, Z7S WS and so on) is that they're designed to handle overclocking - but when did that ever become a limitation in this game? I'd say that the Titans are equally designed for overclocking as the SM 4P boards... it doesn't take much to kill a Titan either. But: SR2 and SkullTrail were accepted earlier, and if the E5-2xxx series had at least one model with an unlocked MP we'd see people running Ln2 on those like crazy - just like we did with SR2 earlier. Whether the mobo maker is Supermicro/Tyan or EVGA/ASUS doesn't really matter. You could probably sell the server to some folder/WCG user or whatever - they're worth the money if you're into those things. 1/3 of the price? No way. You'd probably get close to the same percentage loss as with Titans. I don't see 4P setups go for close to nothing in folding forums. A bit cheaper because they're sold between folders, but that's reasonable - like if I'd get a nice deal on a decent 4770k from a teammate. To sum it up: servers are a tad more difficult to sell, but there is a market for such things. Overclockability through BIOS and software exists. The platform is cheaper than the high end GPU ones, but harder to find locally. All in all, I do not see any reason to exclude these from the Pro cup. Plus, it's just one out of 5 stages. It's enough that one teammate can do the benching. If the total costs are too high, maybe we should not do both multi-GPU and multi CPU in the same cup... or none at all (no multi-CPU = no multi-GPU for me, either you accept the cost and risk of running these "insane" setups, or you don't).

Nope. 4x titans cost more than a 4 server chips + mobo. I think the latter can be had for about $2k, so half the price. That includes a brand new motherboard, too - so in terms of cost, cinebench didn't kill the field. It's just that most people prefer to buy 4 GPUs rather than 4 CPUs regardless of cost.

Lol. No overclocking needed? If it's high end, it's not obscure.

I even Ln2'd the darn thing! But I couldn't get my software to adjust the frickin' VID - so wasn't even close to improve my scores. Now I just hope that it works in linux, so I can do some folding at least...

Ah we're 2nd... never had a rig kick my ass so hard without dying as this 4P I've been trying to run for a few days. I'm sure some people were doing some voodoo to me

Ah, he left OCX

We'll refund you the monthly HWBot fee for May 2013 right away due to poor customer support Actually, it's a Team PURE thing... we paid PJ to create this bug in the first place, so that we stay on top for a longer period. Edit: where the heck did those ~16k come from? 12 ~5k, and the rest?

Hmmm... I think it sounds a bit unreasonable. The power draw goes down as the CPU gets colder. Would be nice to see some measurements - like... 5 GHz prime at fairly high voltage, perhaps starting at SS temps and then just lowering the temperature down to full pot with some measurements in between. Also, if this delta was real we're left with two options: 1: temperature does not matter much for clocks (at low temps), as for example max 1m frequency is "only" 400MHz higher than... say wp1024m. The difference also includes whatever other factors that would increase instability when running 8 threads full load compared to just one.

I'm using EK Ekoolant in my server loop, and it works down to -7c AFAIK. It's very common to use additives, so that alone is not a reason to be moved up a notch here. I think those with access to really low ambient temperatures have an advantage, but that's just how it has to be. Also: Ambient temperature simply means "the temperature of the surroundings" - quote from wiki. Because it is precisely the ambient temperature that's mentioned in the rules (I checked), it's perfectly fine to lower the ambient as much as you want to. AC perhaps? Not sure if there are any storage places with -30c or so everywhere

Which ones? I know some Opteron 1214 results still are like that... (there were a whole bunch due to a database error when I switched to Team PURE, though I've rebenched most by now).

I wonder if I have time to bench my stuff... probably not. WIll have a go at the AM2 1m stage, and maybe 1st gen k10, and if time also do a Deneb 1m and Conroe 1m. Attending a concert tonight and tomorrow, so will be difficult...

Thank you

AMD is too slow... this is cheating!!

Nice! I was like "wtf, when did I bench this thing?" when I saw we had the top spot, and it was you

Ticket ID: 1692 Priority: High http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=2782906 3400+ Windsor\r\nhttp://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=2782920 BE-2450\r\nhttp://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=2782972 715 BE (2.8GHz stock)

Indeed... learned something new today I guess. Lucky Chinese bastards they get all the good stuff... tri-core tat can't unlock... all i can find

I think it would be nice to see a picture, but I wouldn't be surprised if they only "released" the Deneb based ones in Asia, that's what happened to those 220's i think.