Team runs

[Massman]

Yeah right ... lol

Sound like a BS story to keep their hands clean to me .

Does anyone actualy believe in that ?

 

but anyways , good to know hwbot is coming up with updated rules and a statement about subteam runs and hopefully things like won't happen in future

 

I don't even care if it's to keep their hands clean or not. Sergey13 was most gentle and kind.

[Praz]

Why the points were posted really isn't important now. What matters is the issue was rectified as well as could be after the fact. Up until now the posts by the HWbot crew indicated that this was within the rules. It should be obvious to all of us that things were going on behind the scenes to bring this into the confines of what the majority feel the rules dictate. Seems like it's time we all go back to benching. After all, that's what we come here for.

[admin1518941692]

I don't even care if it's to keep their hands clean or not. Sergey13 was most gentle and kind.

 

I hope you never get quoted on this out of context. :D

[1Day]

am I allowed to use that wonderful quote as my sig?

[Massman]

And there goes my reputation

[cyclone]

I must say that I'm very glad with the end of the story about Moscow Subteam and Russian overs.

IMHO new Subteam Rules are not perfect, but they're better and more clear than several months ago.

 

Nevertheless, some hwbot.org participants continue to ignore them and to gain/cheat hwboints with restricted methods.

I've noticed such a bug in one of the TOP-10 Teams a few weeks ago, but it was not fixed till now.

I suppose that our turkish friends don't know English at all, don't know what is the Fair Play, or perfectly understand what they are doing, but they just want to cheat more hwboints, hwboints, hwboints...

 

So, the problem and the facts...

The Team - Hardware-Arena Turkiye.

Suspicious Members - !!!! Brandybuck (http://hwbot.org/user.do?userId=7634), the Team Leader!; Hwa Fena Core (http://hwbot.org/user.do?userId=10060); HardwArena Turkiye (http://hwbot.org/user.do?userId=7625).

I've looked through some results a few weeks ago, and I noticed the suspicious Hardware-Arena Turkiye's members - Hwa Fena Core and HardwArena Turkiye. That days I supposed that the first and the second are something like turkish subteams, but the details are quite surprising.

These two "bots" have only several good results, and randomly use the screenshots and verification links to Futuremark's website.

The most interesting thing is that all the three mentioned participants use THE SAME ORB Account for verification. Just for example:

Brandybuck - http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=5476236 (User - 3164766) - 3Dmark 2003 - 60238 marks on GF 8800 Ultra;

Hwa Fena Core - http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=9192949 (User - 3164766) - 3Dmark 2003 - 45537 marks on GF 8800 GTX;

HardwArena Turkiye - http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=5460218 (User - 3164766) - 3Dmark 2001 - 74987 marks on GF 8800 GTS.

It is a nice way to multiple the TOP-500 hwboints, isn't it? I suppose that Brandybuck created the two mentioned bots by himself, but I am not sure for 100%.

And here is one more interesting detail with the results - Brandybuck and HardwArena Turkiye have got the results on the same hardware - Radeon 9550, registered on the other ORB profile, but made by that cheating turkish guy, too: Brandybuck - 3Dmark 2001 - 16738 marks (http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=8367144); HardwArena Turkiye - 3Dmark 2001 - 17278 marks (http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=8248075).

 

Is it a cheating? I hope that everybody here understands: YES!

Should something be done to fix that problem? The answer is YES!

It's up to YOU, the hwbot.org Crew Members, to decide what exactly should be done. I hope You'll find the right way.

 

P.S. I remember the story with Onepagebook here, on hwbot.org. His results were treated hard but equitable, despite he is a true overclocking Legend famous all over the overclocking world.

And who is Brandubuck? As for me - just a cheating guy. Hope that he'll get a fair punishment.

Probably the Turks will try to be smart (as IMHO some other guys did here) and say that somebody from other team created the two bots to discredit their team leader.. Don't they know each other? Aren't they able to moderate their own results?...

 

P.P.S. I think that subteams should be prohibited on hwbot at all - it will be a little bit easier to moderate the results for You, the hwbot.org Crew, and to help You for us, benchmarkers who support Fair Play principles

[Maxi]

Thanks cyclone, we are looking into this.

[Massman]

Yeap, we're aware of the situation. Thanks for the heads up, Cyclone

[Ac|dd]

My team very very Fast old scools!!

[stummerwinter]

Question to the hwbot-Team:

 

Is this in accordance with the Team-run-rules:

 

BenchBros are Kabauterman (David), TschernoBill (Manuel), loopy83 (Andi)

 

Source

 

And have their own account:

 

loopy83

Kabeuterman

Tschernobill

[BenchBros]

Question to the hwbot-Team:

 

Is this in accordance with the Team-run-rules:

 

BenchBros are Kabauterman (David), TschernoBill (Manuel), loopy83 (Andi)

 

Source

 

And have their own account:

 

loopy83

Kabeuterman

Tschernobill

 

I have transfered all my global ranked scores to the BenchBros account,

loopy does the same, and TschernoBill has no great scores...

 

whats the problem?

[teurorist]

no problem any more but it was one

but i have a idea why we don't make a registration with personal informations like name photo (only the Mods can see ) and may be a scan ore picture of the identity card something like a real liga

[stummerwinter]

I'm just asking (and some more people), because it seems rules are not quite clear...

 

I have transfered all my global ranked scores to the BenchBros account,

loopy does the same, and TschernoBill has no great scores...

 

And, here three examples, where global points are not removed:

Edited July 1, 2008 by stummerwinter

[BenchBros]

Manuel (TschernoBill) is only a good friend, he don't realy belongs to BenchBros.

We only test his Grafixcards once time...

 

0.4 Points are realy much, sorry I remove this score...

[westsider]

i think its nonsence

 

if somebody has 295GTX and he ist the only one who has it

 

 

he benches it

and gives the card to his teammates who bench it with own hardware

 

what if some team doesnt have so much money or sponsor?

 

it is not important which 295 would it be

 

if a new one or the same one

 

i think if benchers are different there is no porblem with card

 

 

 

of course if i volt mode some VGA bench it and share with team mates thats not OK

 

but for default hardware ,i think there schould be no problem about that

 

 

for example i am in germany

and my teammates are in georgia

i can buy here any hardware ,bench it and give back without explainig of any reasons in 14 days

they cant do it

 

i am sorry but i dont have pc shop like some concurents here

and i have no god damned sponsor

 

i get better hardware here and they are just struggling

 

if i were there and i were the only one with money

 

 

i wouldnt voltmod VGA

i would bench it with my brain and skills

 

 

and give them

 

 

if they can reach better results thats not a crime

 

 

because even if they buy a new VGA ,results will be the same

 

do you understand me?

it has with skills to do

it doesnt have something with too much money to do

 

 

OC skills,tweak techik,cooling skills

benching skills

 

you must know your hardware as your 10 fingers to take the max out of it

 

what do u think guys?

 

 

otherwise its impossible to control something like this

nobody can ever prove it with 100%

Edited February 26, 2009 by westsider

[knopflerbruce]

it is not important which 295 would it be

 

if a new one or the same one

It IS important which card it is, what if it's a good one? It's far from fair that a whole team will benefit of one single user's purchased card.

 

i can buy here any hardware ,bench it and give back without explainig of any reasons in 14 days

they cant do it

 

If HW is cheaper/more accessible in Germany theycan send you cash so you can buy GPUs for them if they can't get it in Georgia.

 

because even if they buy a new VGA ,results will be the same

The results are NOT the same with every VGA, some clock better than others. In the end, the results won't be the same either.

[Massman]

Westsider,

 

If I have an 8.2GHz cpu and take the world record here, would you like me to send it to my 154 team mates and let them all have a go on LN2?

[westsider]

nope fore sure

 

but if you have gotta for example 260 GTX which does just normal clocks and u arent using some special cooling in such case would be Ok if you give your card away

 

i mean ,we should divide the golden hardware and normal hardware

 

 

 

i think its not about whos gotta more money here,is it?

i think its about ,whos gotta skills and techniks

[knopflerbruce]

I don't quite get why everyone has to compete with the most expensive hardware, you can still have loads of fun with cheap gear:rolleyes: HWBoints exist for a reason lol.

 

Sure it should be about skill, but there's no skill in getting the good hw if someone more or less throw it into your hands;) And what if you're in a team that doesn't like sharing their i7 965's to a dozen people they barely know? Then that's unfair, as the scores are then dependant on your team's willingness to share their parts - which is even worse than having a system where "skill" is a little bit money dependant. (I say a little bit, as you dont need more than an e8600 + p45 to compete in both superpi and pifast, or a cedar mill to compete in the cpuz ranking).

 

...and if you use your money wisely you WILL get the money to afford an expensive card from time to time. If not, then you must make VERY little money.

[Monstru]

If not, then you must make VERY little money.

 

Careful with such remarks, there are places in the world where a GTX295 costs twice as much compared to the medium salary...

[knopflerbruce]

Careful with such remarks, there are places in the world where a GTX295 costs twice as much compared to the medium salary...

 

Then that IS very little money. Not saying it is because you're stupid or lazy that these people's incomes are low... However, is it THAT bad in Georgia?

[Don_Dan]

Careful with such remarks, there are places in the world where a GTX295 costs twice as much compared to the medium salary...

 

Then that IS very little money. Not saying it is because you're stupid or lazy that these people's incomes are low... However, is it THAT bad in Georgia?

 

I think he's from Romania! ;-)

[knopflerbruce]

I think he's from Romania! ;-)

 

Says Georgia when he posts...

[Monstru]

Georgia? C'mon, where does it says that? Romania here bro

 

The medium official salary here is ~310 Euros / month

The minimum official salary here is ~130 Euros / month

 

Now, I don't want to eat s**t, I was making 700 Euros / month when I got into advertising, and ~ 1500 Euros / month just before I got out of that bussines, so I am not complaining about myself. But the point is that a salary of 1000 Euros / month here means you have a very good job. There are a whole bunch of guys working for way less salary than that. That is not a tragic thing, there are a bunch of things here that cost less then in more western countries. BUT....hardware is more expensive, so comparing that to a normal salary...yeah...it can be a pain in the butt.

 

Also, think about the fact that there are OTHER places in the world where the situation is much worse than here.

 

 

Why should that matter to HWBot? Well, it probablly shouldn't. But be aware that money play a BIG part in this game, not just a little one.

[Monstru]

I totally agree. Just that for some people is just very money consuming and for others almost impposible. And I don't know why we are still talking about this, I just said that remarks like "you must be making VERY little money if you can't afford X hardware" are not ok, taking into consideration that this is a multi national site (I know he didn't mean anything wrong, but he just forgot that there are les fortunate places in the world). I take it the official HWBot opinion is that such remarks are ok?