Win 8, 8.1, 10

[MetalRacer]

I also had a Relbench sub pulled for using win 8. What bothers me is no one can be bothered to post rules but you sure as hell have time to sort through submissions and yank the ones you don't like.

Does anyone know for sure if Realbench is affected by the RTC bug?

[Leeghoofd]

I already posted this a few months ago in the admin section, we needed to clarify asap the rules. Genieben has updated them with adding win 10 and co. Will have to check the Realbench rules....

 

Secundo each time there's a competition, a link to the rules should be included. I always post in the rookie compos that e.g. HWbot prime is not allowed to run on anything above Win7. Yet the same people keep on submitting ov er and over again... that not even reporting scores but just deleting them is the only option...

 

It is a pain to install a dozen of Osses lately, which partly takes out the fun for scatter benchers like me...

[Rasparthe]

http://forum.hwbot.org/showthread.php?t=82925

This is a sticky at forum headlime news, it is top of list when you enter the subforum. I think it can´t be more clear on win8. I agree that it is time to make a sticky at rules section as well and make clear statement that win 10 is not allowed as well, but it will not solve the problem. Rules section on each benchmark has to be upgraded as well in terms of win 10 or not, but if people bench without checking rules, this will not help, if they use win8 or don´t bother to screen cpuz tabs will make no difference^^

 

I still don't think you should be removing scores when there isn't a rules page that says you can't do something. Especially when it comes to a large competition like the TC. If no one has bothered to update a rules page for the benchmark then how can you remove scores for not following the rules.

 

As was stated, unless you are constantly looking through old news items and delving into the forums you may not even know there was an issue, especially with a new OS like Win10.

 

A good many submissions for TC were allowed despite a weak nod to the rules (http://hwbot.org/submission/2980283) but ones that don't break any posted rules are yanked?

[Johan45]

I agree 100%, even if you run the betas there should be some rules posted for them or they shouldn't be posted in the first place. Take X265 for example no rules but it's obvious that Win10 is OK because it makes you set the clock in registry. But who knows for sure. ??? HWBot really needs to accept some responsibility. It's things like this that causes a lot of the " mods do what they want" talk amongst benchers.

[GENiEBEN]

Ok, I'll be afk for another month so bare with me, I did notice the betas don't have rules, that I will take care of. Please do remember the General Rules apply for when there's no (written) rules for a benchmark. And common sense, but that for another day.

 

As for the support for 8/10, I already made a tool but can not release it atm. Sucks, I know.

 

 

@Rasparthe Would you rather have me ignore the problem with aqua3 and old cards for the sake of upholding the rules. If you have the hardware to reproduce the problem, please PM me as I'm working on the wrapper as we're speaking.

[Rasparthe]

Ok, I'll be afk for another month so bare with me, I did notice the betas don't have rules, that I will take care of. Please do remember the General Rules apply for when there's no (written) rules for a benchmark. And common sense, but that for another day.

 

As for the support for 8/10, I already made a tool but can not release it atm. Sucks, I know.

 

 

@Rasparthe Would you rather have me ignore the problem with aqua3 and old cards for the sake of upholding the rules. If you have the hardware to reproduce the problem, please PM me as I'm working on the wrapper as we're speaking.

 

This is where I have issues, because I honestly have no idea where the General Rules are listed? I actually did search for this among the rule pages, but can't find a General Rules page. In the absence of a rules page we can't even point to another page that lists general rules. If there is a page it should probably be listed in the Benchmark listing so that anyone can find it easily (good place to put the ES rules, OS rules, etc)

 

I wasn't protesting the fact the submission was allowed, although I have a number of issues with the Aquamark score, one is the lack of wrapper. It was stated that there would be some leeway for submissions since some of the stages made it impossible to follow the rules. If that score, which clearly is in violation of the rules, is allowed under this leeway, then why enforce a Win10 ban when that is quite a bit more subjective since there is no rules page that says it isn't allowed.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining about all the work that has gone into the wrappers to keep these things fair, its far more than I think anyone realizes. I just hate to see scores allowed when almost guaranteed there were people that didn't use certain hardware because they couldn't get the wrapper to work, only to find out later that the wrapper wasn't required.

 

Some of the stages were a moderating nightmare and I don't think I complained about one score that was allowed to remain despite 'bending' of the rules, but then to have subs removed when they aren't even breaking a posted rule, thats the rub.

 

EDIT: Okay found the General Rules, anyway that we can get them linked from the Benchmark Rules page. Had to go to the FAQ section and saw the link on the right hand side. Someone did a lot of work with that document but I've never seen it before.

Edited October 17, 2015 by Rasparthe

[websmile]

BTW, on the start page of hwbot are buttons on top, one is named "our services" - if you click on it you get directly to the general rules...

[wissper]

Am I the only one that's wondering why there are benchmarks in a 2015 competition that require the use of an operating system that hasn't had mainstream support by the developer since 2009 in the case of XP or 2012 for Vista, on hardware that's 3 generations more advanced than what was available when the newest O/S was discontinued (3rd generation Intel Core CPUs were released in 2012, but 1st generation Core CPUs were the primary market share at that time)? Essentially every component in a PC has changed dramatically in that time, and there have been 3 new operating systems released to take advantage of those advances. It seems logical that the benchmarks aren't going to take advantage of the hardware if they're run on o/s platforms that were developed before the hardware was in existence.

 

If your O/S isn't supported by the benchmark for this competition it should say so in a popup before you waste time running it in the first place.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[xxbassplayerxx]

Am I the only one that's wondering why there are benchmarks in a 2015 competition that require the use of an operating system that hasn't had mainstream support by the developer since 2009 in the case of XP or 2012 for Vista, on hardware that's 3 generations more advanced than what was available when the newest O/S was discontinued (3rd generation Intel Core CPUs were released in 2012, but 1st generation Core CPUs were the primary market share at that time)? Essentially every component in a PC has changed dramatically in that time, and there have been 3 new operating systems released to take advantage of those advances. It seems logical that the benchmarks aren't going to take advantage of the hardware if they're run on o/s platforms that were developed before the hardware was in existence.

 

If your O/S isn't supported by the benchmark for this competition it should say so in a popup before you waste time running it in the first place.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

While I agree, if you read through this thread you'll see that it's Microsoft's fault. There are a few benchmarks that can be run in Windows 8 and 10 but those have a secondary authentication to check what Microsoft messed up.

[Guest george.kokovinis]

I know one thing.

When I see many fingers pointing the other way, there sure is a lot of mess.

 

I am the last one to make suggestions. I do not have the knowledge to do so.

But, too much complexity, takes away part of the fun.

[Taloken]

Seems like we are reaching a hard time concerning all this stuff.

 

 

Today, Dancop set a new WR on Unigine Heaven Extreme, with W10 : http://hwbot.org/submission/3023145

One choice :

- As rules are not allowing W8-based OS for this benchmark, remove Dancop's score.

Or

- Set a taskforce in Hwbot to fix all rules issues and flaws.

 

Both are legitimate, but are contradictory.

 

 

Yes, Dancop didn't respect bench' rules. However, we know that this WR is exploit-free, and deserved (As Skylake is not impacted).

 

In another way, we also all know how much this W8 restriction slow Hwbot popularization. And put a lot more work on moderators shoulders.

 

There was a lot of work to bring rookies with Rumbles and Nimbles, XTU integration ... but it will be negated by W8.

 

 

So, Hwbot staff, make a choice.

 

 

And if you have done are doing work in this way, please communicate about this, damn !

 

 

SuperPi & Co can't be updated like GPUPI and x265, but there's Harmonic (better add a windows in screenshot than disallowed pre-Skylake Intel CPUs, imo), so please don't say that there's no solutions.

 

 

My today's shout.

 

 

 

 

Have a nice day.

[Christian Ney]

 

General rules were updated, go to:

1.6 – WINDOWS 8 RESTRICTIONS

http://hwbot.org/article/general_rules

 

But not individual benchmark rules.

We will do it asap.

Edited November 3, 2015 by Christian Ney

[ObscureParadox]

Communication regarding skylake in windows 8 and newer was made a long time ago now and was said to be fine. Dancop was simply more up to date on the rules than yourself Taloken.

[Christian Ney]

sh1t I forgot pifast

[Taloken]

Thanks for this table Christian, that's what i expected !

 

So CPU-Z now support W8-bug ? We can do max clock and bclk tricking on W8 ?

Never seen something about it in CPU-Z changelog Oo

 

 

ObscureParadox > Indeed, i admit that i check General Rules only like twice a year, but the contradiction between it and the specific bench rules bothered me ^^

 

 

I will take time to write on that for french newcomers, so i will stop tell them "nah sry u cant bench cause u w8 newb", and so they can slap me u_u

To be sure, if i have a doubt, i will mail you Christian (but not prioritary ofc, i don't how you find time for Hwbot, ocaholic, CDH, hw-db ... )

 

 

Thank you both for your answers !

[Christian Ney]

2D benchmark rules pages have been updated.

[xxbassplayerxx]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:banana:

[Taloken]

What about AMD ? I heard that they are not affected.

 

Also, Intel side, are all pre-Skylake are contamined ? Or some oldies like 775 (supposing they are compatible with 8), are not affected ?

[Christian Ney]

AMD and older platforms still affected.

[Taloken]

Ok i found why AMD are affected, for others, here's the link :

http://www.ocaholic.ch/modules/smartsection/item.php?itemid=1071&lang=english

 

Christian, if you have a few minutes, can you validate plz ? (i didn't go deep in technical details to not confuse people)

http://www.cowcotland.com/post415062.html#415062

[Bumcello]

Hello,

I'm new here, i've an i7 4790k with sli of 980 ti...on windows 10 pro. if y understand the rules, i could no upload any benchmark?

Or i've not understand?

 

regards

[Taloken]

you can upload :

 

CPU-Z

PCMark (with SystemInfo up to date)

3DMark (with SystemInfo up to date)

XTU

GPUPI

[yamahracer19]

So if the Bus Speed is at stock setting (100x) on Intel's K cpus then the results would be valid? Or would those results still be blocked?

[xxbassplayerxx]

Only valid if used with a motherboard that does not allow that value to be changed.

[Guest PH Benchmarker]

Hello guys, it's been very confusing for me to understand that Windows 8 limitation and Windows 10 on the results of the benchmarks, I know that bug RTC occurs in reducing the base clock (BCLK), and do as the result of 3DMark is larger and therefore invalid. I wonder if I can run and send the overall result 3DMark, Cinebench, and other benchmarks that are limited on Windows 10 because of the bug in condition to run all benchmarks with standard BCLK (200MHz for AMD CPUs) or to overclock the BCLK?

 

I ask this because it has been somewhat difficult to maintain two operating systems, with Windows 10 for daily use and Windows 7 to run the benchmarks.

 

Hugs.