nickolp1974 Posted January 17, 2016 Posted January 17, 2016 Should ES samples be awarded points in the league?? For me personally this is a big NO and here's my reasons why. I like to try and be competetive within our community league, i have limited funds available so i either have to strike it lucky or buy good and hopefully make the most of what i have, i dont buy 10+ cpu's etc, i buy the one and work with it if its totally dire, sell and buy another, binning kinda but on a miniscule scale! I dont hold anything to those that can throw the cash at our hobby, good luck to them and i wish you all the best. Think Formula 1 for a minute, This season dominated by mercedes, but other teams still had a glimer of hope at getting on the podium, unlikely but it did happen so its doable, great! Now picture mercedes getting an ES package that gaurantees #1, great for the driver untill he stands high on the podium and no one claps. All the other drivers are just looking down at there feet thinking forward to the rest of the season, that glimmer of hope is gone. *** Dan, this is in no way a personal attack at you, just so happens i used F1 where the germans are at the top!! (Even though most of the car is brittish designed! ) So even though i love seeing some of these amazing achievments from the top overclockers i believe ES should be there to showcase but not compete with the rest, otherwise wheres the hope?? Quote
Lays Posted January 17, 2016 Posted January 17, 2016 I don't think anything that isn't available to the general public should be allowed points personally, to promote fairness and equality. Quote
Crew Leeghoofd Posted January 17, 2016 Crew Posted January 17, 2016 ES is not always faster... Users that use the latest generation are elite, I have several here and till now besides the 5960X USA most retails were far better in Haswell, DC and Skyfake. You can never rule out vendor or other support, allowing people to bin and find them cherry CPUs, ES or not... it doesn't matter... if you have the money, support or just sheer luck you will find that good CPU that will boost your ranking... OCing will always cost money if you want to really compete in the rankings... I use the ES cpus coz they are free when reviewing, hence the only reason I'm in Elite If I have a good one super, if it sucks I have to buy/bin retails... For me I see the usage of ES samples as a reward for years of dedication, support to and from the numerous companies... and it lowers the cost Quote
K404 Posted January 17, 2016 Posted January 17, 2016 Have the rules changed? I thought Latest ES was Elite and Pro only? Quote
nickolp1974 Posted January 17, 2016 Author Posted January 17, 2016 For me I see the usage of ES samples as a reward for years of dedication, support to and from the numerous companies... and it lowers the cost I totally get this but on the rare times that super special ES samples have an edge over retail then these should be used for showcase only/points disabled. Handing over a tray of cpu's to an elite member to bin for use i'm fine with aslong as there retail as that retains hope! @K404 as far as i'm aware there just not allowed in comps Quote
K404 Posted January 17, 2016 Posted January 17, 2016 http://forum.hwbot.org/forumdisplay.php?f=142 ES comes up a bit in here Quote
Crew Leeghoofd Posted January 17, 2016 Crew Posted January 17, 2016 Handing over a tray of cpu's to an elite member to bin for use i'm fine with aslong as there retail as that retains hope! The nr of people that receive trays can be counted on one hand at the Bot believe me... It is not all that obvious man, not even for the Elite benchers... This is a general misconception, most of us still pump in a lots of our own money to have fun... Quote
Bruno Posted January 17, 2016 Posted January 17, 2016 (edited) ES are just samples usually used for tests (reviews) under NDA, before the product launch. They do not have anything more (or special) than a retail version (not even a better TIM ). In time, newer batches from retail proved to be better than ES, in most of the cases. So no reason to ban ES. The only advantage of ES is that the owner can post scores before the people that wait for retail to be available. As some may receive trays of ES to bin, the same way others receive trays of retail to bin. What is the difference? Edited January 17, 2016 by Bruno Quote
nickolp1974 Posted January 17, 2016 Author Posted January 17, 2016 The nr of people that receive trays can be counted on one hand at the Bot believe me... It is not all that obvious man, not even for the Elite benchers... This is a general misconception, most of us still pump in a lots of our own money to have fun... I get that and it does not matter to me if 1 or 1000 people get a tray of cpu's but for me as long as there retail then everyone has the chance of competing. How does any of us know if an ES is different to what we can buy off the shelf? Quote
aerotracks Posted January 17, 2016 Posted January 17, 2016 (edited) How does any of us know if an ES is different to what we can buy off the shelf? Bin a couple trays of retail and tell us I don't see the issue, isn't Elite a different league because of usage of current-gen ES? Disabling points in these ES subs would make someone stay in Extreme league if I'm not mistaken. Edited January 17, 2016 by aerotracks Quote
Crew Leeghoofd Posted January 17, 2016 Crew Posted January 17, 2016 Have the rules changed? I thought Latest ES was Elite and Pro only? I hope only Elite, otherwise I'm back to Pro or maybe even Rookie Quote
poparamiro Posted January 17, 2016 Posted January 17, 2016 ES are just samples usually used for tests (reviews) under NDA, before the product launch. They do not have anything more (or special) than a retail version (not even a better TIM ). In time, newer batches from retail proved to be better than ES, in most of the cases. So no reason to ban ES. The only advantage of ES is that the owner can post scores before the people that wait for retail to be available.As some may receive trays of ES to bin, the same way others receive trays of retail to bin. What is the difference? Agree to Bruno, what is the diffrence between one that can bin 30 retail and one that can bin 10 ES? ES Q9650 for my AGP platform was buyed with 300 EUR, and was a piece of crap, never had another to bin. ES 4770k, i have it from my coleagues, and the only one a have. Quote
K404 Posted January 17, 2016 Posted January 17, 2016 We all know that if the ES rules change, then the next gen of CPUs will have amazing ES and retail takes 6months to equal it I don't know if "sod's law" is a phrase known world-wide IMO, the biggest impact that ES makes is that while it is still under NDA, ES only goes to "the right people" and whoever posts results on the day of NDA lift is "connected"... and these people shouldn't be competing right next to Joe Normal. The difference is in the time bonus they have over everyone else to understand and tweak. The sale of ES is illegal and comes with no warranty. If HWB keep ES rules "where they are" then A/ everyone knows what the deal is and can B/ ... y'know.... not buy them. Quote
Mr.Scott Posted January 17, 2016 Posted January 17, 2016 I don't know if "sod's law" is a phrase known world-wide It is here. For the rest: Sod's Law " It will always go wrong with the worst possible outcome." Welcome back Kenny. I missed you. Quote
K404 Posted January 17, 2016 Posted January 17, 2016 No, you didn't Your life was bliss, you can admit it Also for people who might not have heard of it... Sods law is also kinda similar to irony. Like the scene in Family Guy where guns are banned and destroyed "because this is a place of peace, we will never need them." Immediately afterwards, mini mutant Stewies attack. Quote
nickolp1974 Posted January 17, 2016 Author Posted January 17, 2016 Bin a couple trays of retail and tell us I don't see the issue, isn't Elite a different league because of usage of current-gen ES? Disabling points in these ES subs would make someone stay in Extreme league if I'm not mistaken. I keep hearing this "different league" thing in other threads and i dont agree. I like to see it as classes, with the world rankings being THE league. Again look at car racing, the formula's, F1, formula 3, formula ford etc, if you win a race in F3 you get max points because you are only competing with F3 members, F1 is faster round the same track and they also get max points, each league is individulal and not taken from the whole. You can be #1 in the novice "league" but the points are all coming from the same pot so in effect we are all competing for the same points, just with different classes within one League. Quote
K404 Posted January 17, 2016 Posted January 17, 2016 Ok, let's scrap all leagues and combine it into one big free for all? Thousands of posts have been dedicated to league ideas over the years and same again for ES.... (and they weren't all mine! ) Quote
Mr.Scott Posted January 17, 2016 Posted January 17, 2016 You can be #1 in the novice "league" but the points are all coming from the same pot so in effect we are all competing for the same points, just with different classes within one League. Technically, you are correct. Quote
Crew Leeghoofd Posted January 17, 2016 Crew Posted January 17, 2016 The difference is in the time bonus they have over everyone else to understand and tweak. And at start it is not always as fun as when you guys have the retail versions with most bios bugs ironed out Quote
K404 Posted January 17, 2016 Posted January 17, 2016 Retail BIOS have most bugs fixed? I must change board vendor Quote
Crew Leeghoofd Posted January 17, 2016 Crew Posted January 17, 2016 Imagine the state they are in with the evalution boards Quote
I.nfraR.ed Posted January 17, 2016 Posted January 17, 2016 (edited) I see what I did here Maybe this topic came as a result of me commenting under one Dancop's result. I just said it is somehow discouraging for people like me seeing those crazy ES results popping up. But if it's not ES, then it would be a binned retail. The only difference might be if all chips are retail you get the illusion that you actually have a chance It's alright for me, I just don't feel motivated anymore to bench my 6320 (which is bad on air), but that's my problem. It had been discussed a lot in the past and it can't be done as in motorsport or any other live sport. In every motorosport there are people who can inspect the actual car if it complies to the rules, while on hwbot/overclocking you can't. You can't tell if anyone is sponsored or if it is ES hardware (unless it is obvious like most Intel CPUs in cpuz). You can't have a flawless separation system (as in classes/divisions), because some things can't be regulated. That's why it can't be a true e-sport in this format and I don't want it to be anyway. We often see complains about somebody having advantage - being sponsored, having access to enormous amount of chips to bin from, having a chiller in enthusiast league, living on the North Pole, etc. I mostly complain about money . It's just a hobby for me with my limited free time and resources. Most of the time it's just for fun and I'd like to see what is possible with the current-gen CPU. I realise that will never be on top, unless (still questionable ) I spend all my money on hardware and dedicate my time on benching. But it's all fine with me. Edited January 17, 2016 by I.nfraR.ed Quote
K404 Posted January 17, 2016 Posted January 17, 2016 I realise that will never be on top, .... But it's all fine with me. I.nfraR.ed has achieved zen. This is the person to be envious of! Quote
nickolp1974 Posted January 17, 2016 Author Posted January 17, 2016 I see what I did here Maybe this topic came as a result of me commenting under one Dancop's result. I just said it is somehow discouraging for people like me seeing those crazy ES results popping up. But if it's not ES, then it would be a binned retail. The only difference might be if all chips are retail you get the illusion that you actually have a chance It's alright for me, I just don't feel motivated anymore to bench my 6320 (which is bad on air), but that's my problem. It had been discussed a lot in the past and it can't be done as in motorsport or any other live sport. In every motorosport there are people who can inspect the actual car if it complies to the rules, while on hwbot/overclocking you can't. You can't tell if anyone is sponsored or if it is ES hardware (unless it is obvious like most Intel CPUs in cpuz). You can't have a flawless separation system (as in classes/divisions), because some things can't be regulated. That's why it can't be a true e-sport in this format and I don't want it to be anyway. We often see complains about somebody having advantage - being sponsored, having access to enormous amount of chips to bin from, having a chiller in enthusiast league, living on the North Pole, etc. I mostly complain about money . It's just a hobby for me with my limited free time and resources. Most of the time it's just for fun and I'd like to see what is possible with the current-gen CPU. I realise that will never be on top, unless (still questionable ) I spend all my money on hardware and dedicate my time on benching. But it's all fine with me. I have highlighted the point i am trying to make! Nice post and a great attitude, wish mine was the same, but if it was i'd give up and try something else where i could compete! Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.