rbuass Posted February 8, 2012 Author Share Posted February 8, 2012 (edited) Ok... But think.... Change to better....ok....can be discussion Turn more equal .... not ok Everybody here haves how to compete with 1 videocard... But very few people have how to bench 4 way... So...is not hard to find the way is more competitive and easy to be inside...and more equal for all 4 way is for few 1 VGA is for all Edited February 8, 2012 by rbuass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebanik Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I think we can see here people with contries where is more hard to get hardware agree my point of view...against people that can bench multi card... Not true, based in India where hardware is as costly as in Brazil with salaries being as low as you guyz have and companies try to rip off as much from the guy buying the top most hardware as they can because they know they would be selling only a few of them, still I like to see overclockers benching 3/4 GPUs on LN2. And personally have never benched more than single SLI/CF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massman Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 You can buy 2 cards for 1/2way? Why keep talking about 4way? We are just repeating our own arguments over and over again. Everyone understands everyone else's point of view, but everyone still thinks their POV is "more correct". There is no point in repeating ourselves over and over again, I think. Change just leads to circular movement A -> B -> C -> A -> B without ever getting 100% of the people to like the idea. From what I can see, most people are just tired of "change" regardless of what the suggested change is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hokiealumnus Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Massman is spot on - I think there has been enough change to last a long time here. Let's leave the algorithm alone for a little while please! As far as: P.S. not only bring one more discussion...if ask "to take videocards from a friends to complete the 4 way or 3 way rig is "hardware sharing". In my understanding, yes, you can do that. The key to avoiding hardware sharing is that only one of the people submit to the shared category. i.e. Say you have one 7970 and a teammate has two 7970s. You could submit 1x with yours and he/she could submit 2x with his. Then either you could let him/her borrow your card to submit for 3x - or vise versa. The key is that only ONE of you may submit the 3x scores. You can't borrow his/hers to submit 3x and then give all three to him/her to do the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Gappo Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 P.S. not only bring one more discussion...if ask "to take videocards from a friends to complete the 4 way or 3 way rig is "hardware sharing". Are you shitting me right now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbuass Posted February 9, 2012 Author Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) Are you shitting me right now? No.. I never think about you... You are not important to me...and I never mind with you. P.S. Hi Gappo...looks like you are a 2D PCMark benchmarker... You never saw me talking about to remove PCMark cuz I do not consider this benchmark... Why are you discussing out your area? ...and why did you not respect others and further with this kind of language? Edited February 9, 2012 by rbuass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massman Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 In my understanding, yes, you can do that. The key to avoiding hardware sharing is that only one of the people submit to the shared category. i.e. Say you have one 7970 and a teammate has two 7970s. You could submit 1x with yours and he/she could submit 2x with his. Then either you could let him/her borrow your card to submit for 3x - or vise versa. The key is that only ONE of you may submit the 3x scores. You can't borrow his/hers to submit 3x and then give all three to him/her to do the same thing. Correct! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoF Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Honestly I am tired of writing / talking about rankings, points and all that. So I will just say to what I agree from first page: I don't think it's our task to reduce the expenses of overclocking as much as possible. The system works the following way atm: you get globals for your 15 best submissions in each category, and 1-4 GPU for benchmark X are counted as 4 different categories. This means you can choose your battles. If you run 1-4-way of some benchmark, then you've got 11 more benchmarks that count for your total. In the end, if you want the maximum number of boints, you can't rely on 3/4-way runs - you need to have a few singlecard runs too, as they're worth alot more points because of the extra competition. The only advantage "rich" people have with the new system is that they have a few more choices compared to people who can't afford 3/4-way rigs - but there are still plenty of other benchmarks to run if 3/4-way is out of reach. (cpuz, superpi 1m & 32m, pifast are 4, 1->6x PCMark05, wPrime 32m & 1024m = another 18. 01, 03, 05, 06, Vantage, 11, Heaven, Am3 for dual + singleGPU = another 16, so the total for people on a budget: 38 benchmarks. Compare this with the 15 you need for your profile) Even though this is not a perfect system, it's still better than the old one - where you HAD to run singlecard because of the extra points. It's much more flexible now. +1 FYI, for the 3DMark Vantage ranking - 1xGPU => 33.6pts needs rank #36 - 2xGPU => 33.7pts needs rank #19 - 3xGPU => 33.6pts need rank #3 - 4xGPU => 33.7pts need rank #3 - 4xGPU => 34.9pts need rank #9 (with 15 3DWR points) So, even in the multi-gpu categories you need decent ranks to match 'average' score in 1xGPU. With 7970 the rankings are a bit skewed now, though ... but that's always the case. Shows the "point-balance" very good. Even I have 2x 580 GTX here, I will not go sky high with just a third or fourth one on X79... I think there's no point to adjust the rankings any more .. what you can achieve by 'skill' other guy can compensate with money/luck, so we'll be back to square one again. If you see it that way it was a triangle before and never will be a circle as much as everybody wants it to be... Why weird?To be #3 .... is needed to be a very good overclocker???...or is needed to have multi cards??? The best overclocker of the world need to have multi cards??? (thats a pity,... I think I always will fight to keep in top 20...never top 5) To become #1 you first of all need MONSTER CPU...everything else will come itself...ever remarked that the one on top usually also has the best CPU(s)? And considering the choices you have you need max 2 cards to make your way on top (01, AM3, 05, 06 - all CPU-bound, 03 needs 3 cards...) I understand the point of view and I think the complaint is valid in a way. But, as others already said, it's all a matter of opinion: some will say multi-gpu benching should be less rewarded, others will say they should be rewarded more. It's just not possible to figure out a system where everyone is 100% happy. Anyway, the essence of a competition is that the organiser makes up a set of rules and the participants tries to figure out how to play within that set of rules. The participant should adapt to the game, the game shouldn't adapt to the participants. well said - the rules have been changed over and over again...time to get some kinda "stability" in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiVizMan Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 We compete by choice. And compete is the key concept here. We are in competition. Any sport that you compete in requires effort, dedication, access to resources and from time to time plain good luck to reach the top. Is it fair that all CPU's are not equal, is it fair that some folks have more money than others to bin hardware, is it fair that LN2 costs more in one country than another, is if fair that some people have the time to bench? Possibly not, but so what. You compete because you want to. You compete because you can. Who you compete against is up to you. Where you compete is also up to you. HWBOT is the only game in town right now. So here is where we play. The rules are applied to all equally. The rules do change from time to time, hopefully for the better and like them or not they are the rules we are playing to. But ultimately it is a personal choice to compete. Who do you compete against? Me I compete against my personal best score in each benchmark. That is enough for me. Do I think that the current points system is the best there is, NO. For example, how is it possible to get 59 global points when only one or two others have benched similar hardware is nuts in my view. But that is the rules. And until the rules change that is the way it is. Look to yourself for your true competition, and to others for what to aspire too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sergodanilov Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Not true, based in India where hardware is as costly as in Brazil with salaries being as low as you guyz have and companies try to rip off as much from the guy buying the top most hardware as they can because they know they would be selling only a few of them, still I like to see overclockers benching 3/4 GPUs on LN2. And personally have never benched more than single SLI/CF trust all your words Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebelion Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Overclocking it´s always about money. If you have enough budget you can afford high end hardware, you can bin processors or graphics cards, have better cooling solutions, etc, etc. What happens if one user it´s very good, he knows how to do the tweaks, how to run at high clocks, but he/she can´t buy a HD 7970/GTX 580, a 3930K, a LGA 2011 mainboard, etc, etc. He/she will never be in the top of the list. Some people assume that everybody can afford the hardware, but in my opinion it´s a wrong argument, not everybody can. And please, keep the rankings as it, lot of changes were made in the last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knopflerbruce Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Little cash => hardware masters ranking:) The global league has always had money as a factor. There are other rankings for people who don't have infinite $$$, where you need time, skills and patience more than a huge wallet to be able to compete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebelion Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Little cash => hardware masters ranking:) The global league has always had money as a factor. There are other rankings for people who don't have infinite $$$, where you need time, skills and patience more than a huge wallet to be able to compete. But in that way the money it´s important as well. Yeah, you´re right, it´s not as important as for other leagues, but if you don´t have the cash you can´t buy the hardware, so you can bench your CPU, graphics card and nothing more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knopflerbruce Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 You can run old hardware, where the CPUs are $5/piece - for example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebelion Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) You can run old hardware, where the CPUs are $5/piece - for example. Yes, yes, as I said, you´re right. But you need high end hardware that´s not easy to find. Edited February 10, 2012 by knopflerbruce Oops :p unedited Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knopflerbruce Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 That's true, I waited 2-3 years to find a IC7 for sale locally Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebelion Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 That's true, I waited 2-3 years to find a IC7 for sale locally Nice one knopflerbruce! It´s not easy to find this kind of hardware. I was looking for a second HD 3870 but i didn´t found a cheap one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mariovmn Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 You ask my opinion about wprime???...Yea... only one best WPrime result...and only will add points the best score... But is just my opinion...I am not talking that I am sure and neither that is not fair.... But VGA earn points to 1, 2, 3 and 4 VGA "to me" is unfair... People can tell is few unfair...or lots of unfair...but unfair...(IMHO) Look at, for exemple a great overclocker results: I am not talking that Russians guys was not great overclocker....neither that they don't deserve to be overclocker kings.... but...I am trying to prove that the guy that bench only single card NEVER will be top 3 for sure... Or....need to be a Shamino, Andre and this guys that haves huge knowledge PLUS huge conditions.... I think we have to be free to post...then if you think diferent....is just disagree or agree. Thanks for read. I understand the views cited, but this post from Ronaldo, shows that the overclocker with more graphics cards are more valuable than the overclocker with better results. I believe the best overlocker should be rewarded, not the overclocker to condition to run tests with more graphics cards. This is my opinion. Sorry for my bad english. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massman Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 FYI, if you'd be 1st in all 1xGPU benchmarks (8 BMs), you'd have ~1480pts. Or: 2nd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbuass Posted February 20, 2012 Author Share Posted February 20, 2012 (edited) But this way YOU NEED to be the 1st at 8 benchs... C'mon.... I am working hard last days....and hold 2nd place 3dm11, Vantage, 3dm03 and Unigine (cuz Andre looks unbeatable) ... and still around 8 global place.... Another benches I goot only good results.... so it proves that if I get more cards I can improve my results and my points... Or....will need a monster Gulftown to 05 and 06 and some 2d benches... In the truth I don't know why Hwbot changed and allowed and agreed to changed and now people that haves multi cards flying with multi Gpu results... I understand HWBot don't want to change again... and hwbot think is better keep this way....but please don't tell that is for all and that's not fair (just think about this - everybody that want to bench haves 1 single card... but few people have condition to bench multi gpu). So....it is my point of view.... I am working hard to prove that I can be consider more than 8 place....and usually braking the scores from another top guys....but keep this way and I will never will beat and come to top 5. Lets see the top guys (please remove Andre thats one degree up)... and let me know why they always haves multi gpu cards results and holding lots and lots of points (main single, 2 cards and 4 card)... You can not hide whats completely clear... I will not change hwbot rules.... but atm this rules is not best to all....but best to guys that haves multicards... I am here to defend a point of view that lots of guys agreed... so ... even nothing is change... I think is important to be a democratic place Edited February 20, 2012 by rbuass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sergiorb Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 When HWBOT will be fair again when just the best result will be valid , instead 2,3,4-way setup, where not is junt unfair in facility , but much easier when you live in countries where you can find all stuffs easier and cheap ... What HWBOT really wants , the best overclocker or the best overclockers suport ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massman Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 ... You say the best overclocker is the one with the best 1xCPU/1xGPU setup. Hwbot system says the best overclocker also has to master some multi-GPU setups. You don't have to run 4-way to be top-5. You might have to show your skills with 2xGPUs. Which is fair, I think ... multi-gpu requires a slightly different skillset than only 1xGPU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knopflerbruce Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 2x GPU isn't that out of reach either, 4-way I can imagine is hard (I don't even have cash for 2-way myself). The big boints are in single-GPU rankings, with the exception of the WR bonus, which is only huge for the first few entries anyway. And if you have a good CPU (which you need to be able to compete in any 3D benchmark), it will give you loads of globals points in the 2D rankings, so you have plenty of options. You can also try to beat some more low cost rankings, like wprime 1x-3x. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinos22 Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 this "sport" is starting to get to a point where it's getting over-complicated and has one too many rules i swear. Every dude out there has an opinion his opinion is most important and wants shit to spin the way he imagines it will, where do you draw the line. No offence to rbauss or others but do you get what i'm saying.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbuass Posted February 20, 2012 Author Share Posted February 20, 2012 2 GPUs is 2 times more money...2 times more LN2... Why it was changed to multi scores to diferent settings of cards (2, 3, 4 GPUs?). I am not telling I am the only correct way to think... but I am telling that my way is more competitive....cause ATM I have no 2 cards... Even...4 Way just earn WR extra points... Will keep walking with my only card... but know will be impossible to scale a lit bit more this way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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