R5: Pro OC V2 - Pro OC Cup introduction

[icebob]

Maybe I don't get it, but my question is, what about the other bench that are not in the cup? What about Vince being on a 01 mood and bench the bejesus out of it? No boints for setting up new records? For me that was the fun about the pro league, seeing those guys raping a benchmark app and after that seeing how close I can get to them. Like when the big guys are on a, let's say an 03 record breaking spree, you can notice a lot of 03 scores being post by non pro benchers. Forcing them to run specific bench at specific time will just kill the fun/entertainment/motivation we were getting watching those dude going at it. Just my 2 cents...

[I.M.O.G.]

Maybe I don't get it, but my question is, what about the other bench that are not in the cup? What about Vince being on a 01 mood and bench the bejesus out of it? No boints for setting up new records? For me that was the fun about the pro league, seeing those guys raping a benchmark app and after that seeing how close I can get to them. Like when the big guys are on a, let's say an 03 record breaking spree, you can notice a lot of 03 scores being post by non pro benchers. Forcing them to run specific bench at specific time will just kill the fun/entertainment/motivation we were getting watching those dude going at it. Just my 2 cents...

 

Still get boints bob which helps your regular team but it doesn't help in league ranking because there is no pro league ranking - the points still show up under the pro's profile. They also still show up in the global and hardware rankings... The only part missing is their rank in the pro league.

[icebob]

Ok, thx for the boints clarification, but when will we see the other bench ( the one not in the cup) being bench by the big guys? If the are forced to bench specific benches, it will take month to see other bench being tortured, because there is no more motivation/time/funfactor for them to bench them. For me the last Team.AU meet was freaking entertaining to follow, and that's the kind of benching sessionthat are fun, bunch of guys that just decided to rape 01, am3 ect... no one told em to bench those, they did so because they wanted to... Don't get me wrong, I'm not against the cup, but the best scenario will be to have both, the pro league and the cup...

Edited March 8, 2013 by icebob

[uncle fester]

This is hilarious PJ

Yes we found 47 people

You found 4 people supporting you. Even hwbot crew dont support the idea. Where are all these people you keep talking about that wanted this. Let me guess they are too scared to Vote.

 

Im going to leave this thread now with mad we have said all that needs to be said. I hope you see reason with what the community wants.

[I.M.O.G.]

I agree there icebob. Without an ongoing league ranking, there would be a bit less motivation for stuff like that. At least for me, the competitive part of the ranking, like constantly trying to catch and stay ahead of mikecdm (I don't stay ahead very often) and thinking of someday catching stever0 is motivating. Gunslinger dropped back to XOC now too, and is within striking distance... I like having another target relatively within reach.

 

But they still do get points, global/hardware rankings, and reputation... But the league ranking is nice. Talking internally with my team, I'm going to go in with some guys on the ProOC cup for 3 months. I'll lose my league ranking, but my points still help the team, and I still can look at my point total compared to other guys... I just won't show up in the XOC list.

 

That seems ok with me, and the Pro OC is only 5 benches in 3 months split by 5 guys... So it could be easy and fun to make a respectable showing. We're all amateurs but Hokie, so we don't expect to win... But we do want to represent our team as best we can.

 

I've never been in pro league, so I can't say how I would feel in their shoes. This is just my opinion, and I'm interested to see how Pro OC cup works out if it goes forward as planned.

Edited March 8, 2013 by I.M.O.G.

[icebob]

The funny part I keep hearing here is, it's only 5 benches, we are talikng about the pro here, do you think they will just pop a chip/card/mem ect in there and hope for the best? They will have to bin, and bin, and bin before they find the right setup worth submitting, THAT is the time consuming part, it's not like, ok I have 3 hours free today, let's do that cup thing... and with the requirements changing for every stage, that sound like a full time job to me....

[k|ngp|n]

Was eating some popcorn two nights ago while watching a movie with my gf, and got a piece stuck way down in my gum on one of my back molars...been goin about my business with that bad boy for two days miserably Even yesterday benching quad it was so damn distracting. FINALLY today it just popped out on its own , and I feel like 29.86 million NT now!

 

As for the new PRO CUP, I'm all in and ready to embrace MUCH needed change. Sadly, XOC participation has strongly declined over last couple years. THIS IS FACT, BELIEVE IT. It aint like it used to be boys. Many factors are the catalyst for this, some outside of our community which we cannot control like shrinking desktop market and the move toward mobile compact computing. I had always hoped XOC would be something huge, similar to what competitive gaming is. I've dedicated almost the last ten yrs of my life to promoting it and trying to grow it both from as an extreme overclocker and from KPC business perspectives. Many personal sacrifices were made, but I still wouldn't change a thing and I am truly grateful for everything OC has given me.

KPC have been a part of extreme overclocking for a long long time. Most of u guys if not all of u guys that have been around for a bit have probably poured on one of my containers at least one time or another. So if hwbot wants PRO OVERCLOCKING to evolve into something fresh, I will support it. There will be a KPC pro team which will feature a healthy roster of the most talented "amateurs" and pro guys in the industry. Some new, some old. The KPC pro team will have more of a revolving concept where guys can be moved in and out as needed like any pro sports team. I will also try and help out other teams who want KPC as a partnership sponsor. Still so many active great overclockers that use kpc cooling that I would be so so glad to take on the team...RONALDO, ADDICT, ROBERTO, SMOKE/SLAMMS, TEAM AU, ANDRE, NICK, SPLAVE, HAZZAN, KOREAN TEAM, UKRANIAN's, JAPANESE LEGENDS, LOTS of GREEKS, team france, COOKIE, ETC, ETC, ETC. the list goes on and on. These are 95% of the current record makers. Very hard to decide which 3-4 guys to "sign" for first season. I still need to figure some stuff out and will give more detailed information on KPC forum soon before the first pro cup season begins about the team. This thread is more for expressing my point of view and commitment to be involved about hwbot's decision to go forward in a new direction.

I can say for sure season one of Pro OC cup will feature SPLAVE, Christian NEY, and myself.

But like I said from season to season the roster can and most likely will change and I want to express my support for ALL teams in the league in any way KPC can.

 

Lets try something new eh? Old pro league was stale and I honestly think it contributed partly to decline in interest in XOC high end stuff. It DID succeed in creating a mostly "manuf free" zone for up and comers and allowed a lot of very talented guys to shine. Nothing should change about XOC league and manuf backed guys should stay the hell out of it. The notion of backed guys going back in there is not good imo.

Currently with titan being a strong card in A LOT of benchmarks you would think I would love to have old pro league back. I can finally compete properly since 580, but its not the case. In new league, titan stuff might only account for one or two benchmarks per round at most making things more level for those not as "titan enabled" as others. Lets just change shi* up and have some fun with it. At first I didn't like it like the rest of you, but after some talking with Pieter and Neo, I feel this new team angle is kinda cool and could breath some new life into XOC. Dino...this setup is perfect for Team AU. You guys have talent spread across the board.It wouldn't be the same not seeing u guys in here and I really hope you will reconsider.

We need more spectators for this thing to survive and even thrive. More fans of XOC = more participation in mainstream overclocking. When this happens we all win. Not sure if this is the answer for that or even if there is an answer

We can at least try it and see whatsup after that. It will evolve for sure as we go and if not then at least they tried something new I hear so many private comments from people and manuf themselves about hwbot pro league being tired. Freestyle overclocking will and always be there for all of us right? Just bench what u want to when you want to and make world record if the score is good enough. I will still do that for sure.

Edited March 8, 2013 by k|ngp|n

[rbuass]

Then... we have:

 

3DMark Fire Strike Single GPU

3DMark 11 Performance Full Out

Super PI 32M

Memory Clock

Cinebench R11.5

 

We will not see any pro... sending Unigine Heaven 1, 2, 3, 4 cards... 3DM03, 3DM01, 3DM06, 3dM05, 3DM11 1, 2, 3 cards, ... also the most of 2D benchs made pro Pro league guys.

I still like to see sicky scores and best benchers broken records to encourage people to do the same and even better...

 

@Vince... I though every Pro Overclocker agreed the cup... but the problem is to remove the Pro league.

You are and always will be Kingpin... and don't need to show nothing more for nobody... you just worked hard... and now... you have good conditions and privileges you earned.

But not all Pro Overclockers are in good situation... that's the problem.

I know about me... and all effort I made before...and now... I really feel harmed.

I fought hard, I know how much work and effort I made to get # 3 on the pro league, without expensive LN2 support and 2 videocards borrowed.

I have never be same conditions by the "Pro League Guys", but regardless all... I worked without complaining, and followed the rules, and now, I losed all.

Lots of times I asked to earn points only once time per benchmark (or 1, or 2, or 4 videocards... but only better score per benchmark)... to not earn points to obscure hardwares... and more stuff to turn more easy to who has less conditions... but regardless all... I kept working.

Many overclockers are in the same situation as me, "or even worse".

This is not what really pleases me..

 

"just my 2 cents... as some overclockers said before"

 

sorry the bad english

Edited March 8, 2013 by rbuass

[k|ngp|n]

So just do it then bro! World records are still and will always be there...to not bench for WR's anymore because there no pro league points for it makes no sense.

[Bobnova]

To me, the idea of having a WR, even briefly, hugely outweighs the points I'd get for it.

Admittedly I have no WRs, I have never even been close to a WR, but still.

 

As far as I know there were no league points (or, you know, leagues...) on the Orb way the hell back before HWBot existed. I know some of you were active then, were there leagues? Points? Or simply a (global) ranking per bench, just like there will still be with the pro cup?

[rbuass]

Unfortunately, not one sizes fits all.

Here where I live... if sometimes I want to do an event... or even look for some help... a "curriculum" is needed.

Now... the Pro Overclockers are no more ranked.

Maybe in countries like USA and Taiwan, thats a hardware paradise, is not too important... but you can be sure that in South America is...

To give you an example... I only was looked by Corsair in Brazil...because I was the best ranked...

I only made events with Gigabyte, Campus Party and so on... because I was good ranked.

I know is a particular case... and Hwbot can not be worry about it... but like me.. there are more overclockers with same feeling... with same or different reasons to disagree to remove the Pro league.

I believe every single Pro Overclocker liked the idea of Pro Cup, but it don't mean to remove complete the Pro League.

[k|ngp|n]

Ronaldo, you are the epitome of extreme overclocking. One of the hardest working guys I know. I truly respect everything you have done, your past results, your contribution to your home local OC scene, everything and I always follow u and your accomplishments

 

There are still current WR rankings for every benchmark. I'm benching now very very hard for some even knowing that there are no more pro points for it. I don't see how its even possible to lose the motivation/determination to push a system as hard as possible for a world record because there is no longer a pro league that awards hwboints for it. All records still count towards team totals.

A record is a record man..pro league points or not

[dinos22]

Thanks for the kind worlds vince but there is no will in TeamAU so probably no way to do something like this. If it was a Pro Cup season I reckon boys would be all over it but full time comp schedule is hard to stomach and do right... F1OC had a crap ending and it would be nice to have a crack at something like that again for sure.....just seasonal like every other sport on the planet

 

there's this invention called tooth floss bro, look it up

Edited March 8, 2013 by dinos22

[rbuass]

Thanks Vince... this words from a guy like you, are still more value to me.

I never intend to leave... instead I joined Pro Cup.

Looks for not good thing almost all Pro Overclockers disagreed the Pro Cup.

I really don't know how it works...but I know will be hard to me.

 

Let it be

[k|ngp|n]

Thanks for the kind worlds vince but there is no will in TeamAU so probably no way to do something like this. If it was a Pro Cup season I reckon boys would be all over it but full time comp schedule is hard to stomach and do right... F1OC had a crap ending and it would be nice to have a crack at something like that again for sure.....just seasonal like every other sport on the planet

 

there's this invention called tooth floss bro, look it up

 

Well everyone respect what ever you guys do, still love to see u there having a go at it. I swear I tried and couldn't get it out man..Down so deep it was killin me!

[Massman]

Thanks for the kind worlds vince but there is no will in TeamAU so probably no way to do something like this. If it was a Pro Cup season I reckon boys would be all over it but full time comp schedule is hard to stomach and do right... F1OC had a crap ending and it would be nice to have a crack at something like that again for sure.....just seasonal like every other sport on the planet

 

there's this invention called tooth floss bro, look it up

 

Any season consists of multiple rounds to make up the season ranking. Tennis has tournaments, football has matches, F1 has races. The "Pro OC Season" or "... Ranking" as it been called before consists of the cumulative performance in the last 3 cups. Tables with info on team and individual performance and their respective 'wins' in those competitions.

 

It's kind of hard to make a season total before the first round has even finished.

[Massman]

Sure, breaks are inevitable. Let's hope new blood can find the motivation, inspiration as well as the opportunity to pick up and enter where others need a break.

[Massman]

(in response to Dinos22's deleted post)

 

Burnout? Not really. This is information on the time contraint complaint from earlier in the thread:

 

Regarding the time constraint issue, I understand your point of view to the fullest. In fact, that problem was considered and taken into the equation. One of the benefits of the League is that you can always suddenly become competitive with the right hardware and cooling, even if that's once every six months. Honestly speaking, though, I genuinly believe that the Cup format would actually be more beneficial for time-constraint individuals and, in your case, teams. Consider the following effort requirements:

 

- Pro OC League: 15 results per quarter per person => 5 results per person per month

- F1OC: 2 (well, just one as we later found otu) submissions per month per two people => 1 result per person per month

- Pro OC Cup: 5 submissions per quarter per five people => 0.333 results per person per month

(- League + Cup: 20 results per quarter per five people => 1.333 results per person per month)

 

Compared to the previous F1OC, the actual effort requirement per person (split over a team of five people) is one result per three months. This is significantly lower than the effort requirement for both the League and the F1OC. Agreed, it would require some management to have everyone do their part of the work, but in terms of the ability to be competitive the workload is actually lower. I would assume, and that's partially based on the experience I have benching together with Leeghoofd, that you can find someone in Australia that can do work pretesting hardware for example. Someone who does have a lot of time, is enthusiastic, but just doesn't have the level of skill or experience needed to put out the final top result, which someone else could help out with once every three months.

 

I've looked up the activity of the Team.AU account over time and the last time there were less than five results submitted in a quarter was Q1 2009. Ever since, you're putting out at least five results a quarter. The last time you didn't get 20 submissions per year (4x 5 stages) was 2006.

 

You can always let a Cup slide and skip it, that's no problem. You'll see that there is a drop in the Overall Season Ranking, but that is normal. The major advantage is that people that would be interested in trying out the Pro OC will not be discouraged with a #1 that has been up there for over a year only because he can bench the best samples once and then do nothing for six months.

 

"Why is he number one?" - "Well, he had a super good CPU five months ago and no one has been able to beat him" - "Oh, okay ..."

[Viss]

Desktop computing, gaming and OC is dying and there's nothing a tiny community like ours (with or without fresh blood) wil change about that. For 99% of the visitors on hwbot OC is nothing more then just another hobby next to bussy lives with families and jobs. Terms like the "broken eco system" and the "dead of OC" sound rather dramatic in that perspective. Try to adjust to the changing market like the vendors do and in the mean time cherish what you have rather then make more people leave. HWBOT did a good job becoming what it is today, most of the small comunity we are do use the website, thats a great achievememt but dont forget you need these users to make things work.

[I.M.O.G.]

Desktop computing, gaming and OC is dying and there's nothing a tiny community like ours (with or without fresh blood) wil change about that. For 99% of the visitors on hwbot OC is nothing more then just another hobby next to bussy lives with families and jobs. Terms like the "broken eco system" and the "dead of OC" sound rather dramatic in that perspective. Try to adjust to the changing market like the vendors do and in the mean time cherish what you have rather then make more people leave. HWBOT did a good job becoming what it is today, most of the small comunity we are do use the website, thats a great achievememt but dont forget you need these users to make things work.

 

I don't mean to nitpick, but there are several misleading statements here I'd like to address...

 

Anandtech forums, Overclock.net, and techpowerup forums are arguably bigger than they have ever been (among others, these are just a few examples). The market is changing from what it used to be, but I don't know if dying is the word for it. Maybe some old fashioned parts are becoming less relevant, but surely the market isn't dieing.

 

The PC market grew by 1.7% in 2011, was expected to grow by .9% in 2012, and was forecasted to grow by over 6% in 2013. 2011 was a record year for PC gaming sales. In Q4 2012, mobile PC shipments dropped 11% while desktop dropped 6% - Q4 wasn't great but the rest of the year wasn't so bad. Mobile is growing, but its replacing consumption machines and secondary machines. Anyone creating or doing work is still doing it on a PC, albeit often mobile, but PC building is probably more popular now than ever, and PC gaming is growing while consoles are continuing to tank.

 

And PC gaming in 2012? Possibly the best year ever. Here's one interesting article/roundup. Also there is crazy exciting stuff going on with kickstarter and game development, we ran a series about it on Overclockers.com and this is actually a big thing... Thanks to crowd sourcing game developers are able to bring things to the PC that weren't able to get through big publishing houses. There are projects raking in over a million dollars in funding in less than a day.

 

With that said, it's also worth keeping in mind that many of us have been at this for over a decade now. What you say about jobs and families is surely more true now than it has been in the past - the market is bigger, and there's more of us now than ever who grew up on the stuff and now have real responsibilities. So its important to always be bringing in new blood and inspiring interest... But at the same time, I've been hanging out with this crowd for over a decade, and this hobby rocks. I might be busier, but I'm not going anywhere.

 

So to wrap up, it isn't all doom and gloom. Subzero is bigger than it has ever been. A lot of things are going right. Lot's of dedicated people who want to see HWBot succeed even if we don't agree with decisions at times... Rev 3 and rev 4 both went over like a ton of bricks pretty much, but most all of us stuck through it. Most guys I know who aren't around as much anymore just grew up and their interests changed. Life happens. We'll be ok.

Edited March 8, 2013 by I.M.O.G.

[Viss]

Desktop computing as we know it is changing might be a better chosen sentence, i agree

[Splave]

guys guys guys, hwbot and boints should be a by product of your hobby and thrill of the bench! not the other way around...if you are benching just for boints im sorry but you're doing it wrong. bench what you enjoy. For me Ive benched 4-way 3 times and my brain cant physically handle doing it again, I will literally die if forced to do so. I also enjoy learning new benchmarks and expanding my horizons technically. So the new league, Ive matched myself with guys that triumph in my short comings and I can either A. stick to what I like to bench IE 32m and single cards here and there or B. Dive into a new bench im not really comfortable and become a better bencher. The fun needs to come back for some of you guys. There is no reason to be getting upset over change. From rev 2 to rev 3 my team went for 3rd in the world top US team to something like 12th and at that point alot of them just up and quit...but thats how it goes. Just take a second and think, if this hobby is no longer fun to you and its become work take a break. Hate the playa not the game, and IMOUT *Drops the mic

[pro]

I'm sure the pro oc cup will be lots of fun, best of luck to all the teams

[pro]

guys guys guys, hwbot and boints should be a by product of your hobby and thrill of the bench! not the other way around...if you are benching just for boints im sorry but you're doing it wrong. bench what you enjoy.

 

Amen preach to them brother

[Jimba]

I joined OC because I wanted to learn something, and I have. Alot actually. To me OC shouldnt be about boints or WR (as good as they are) but about the community (I bold this point if I could) and the enjoyment of the bench!. I have wanted to step up to XOC for along time since I started doing OC after been inspired by alot of the top guys. But this change im thinking. It sounds like great fun but how do I do it? some people have family and jobs to worry about, I have uni studies so then question comes in. You want new people.then teach new people!

 

(this is just my 2 cents,if kinda off topic then please say so)