R5: Pro OC V2 - Pro OC Cup introduction

K404 · December 27, 2012

I would change the analogy slightly. The racetrack is the common comparison point. The Ferrari isn't in the same race, it's just on the same track.

I don't know how accurate it is, but I play GRID and one of the race types puts GT1 +2, LMP1 + 2 class cars in the same race. Of course, the LMP cars pull ahead, but those who know a bit about the cars know that whoever wins in their class is still very good at what they do.

Maybe i'm reinforcing your point by accident!

Maybe the below is off-topic? I dunno. I typed this out but didn't wanna delete it

The difference between OC/ Extreme OC/ Pro OC and other pro Vs non-Pro sports is..... no-ones permission is needed to participate. Using F1 again, it doesn't matter how much money I have, if i'm not invited in, my F1 car ain't getting on the track. Maybe some people feel as though they can participate, they feel like there's some kind of entitlement? Seriously, who expects to be World #1 at something without putting some serious time and money in? Seriously, think about it. You do not piss out some work and take the top spot. Rock stars do not get signed and famous because 4 guys picked up some instruments. They put the time in, the money in, they made the sacrifices.

I don't consider this elitist. If someone does this for fun, that's genuinely great. Enjoy it.... but they have to understand that their rankings will reflect that it's fun. If someone wants to be number 1, understand that there are other people who want the same and they're gonna work HARD for it.

Maybe back on track.

If we want to take this to a wider audience, we have to convince them it's worth caring about. There are no crashes, no fires, very few moving parts, most of us are butt ugly and it's all technical. There's nothing to watch. We stand pretty much still and move whatever arm the flask is in. Maybe OC is never gonna be massive.

It doesn't matter that it's technical. F1 rules are technical, but ..."Hey! those cars are going round in circles really fast, so i'll watch it! There's rules? Ok! What does that mean? Who cares, everyone has to obey them, so it's a level playing field and did I mention, those cars are really fast!"

Turn OC into a spectacle, people will watch.

Edited December 27, 2012 by K404

Splave · December 28, 2012

Agreed kenny, most people are attracted to LN2 smoke and once that novelty has worn off interest is lost.

K404 · December 28, 2012

Theory:

Mainstream is where the sales are. At the moment thats....what?.... GTX650TI, 7870? Something like that? CPU.... 3770K of course.

Why not put more emphasis on the midrange CPU, coupled with the popular midrange GPUs in 1x or 2x because then people can actually relate to the MHz and scores. How many computer users run top-end 4-way?

HWBot.... combine with the Stream hardware survey and attach more points to the most popular current hardware. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. Attach points to it, people bench it. People bench it, it's worth the points.

At the moment, there's top-end stuff.... and tumbleweeds in most other new categories.

saint19 · December 28, 2012

Why not put more emphasis on the midrange CPU, coupled with the popular midrange GPUs in 1x or 2x because then people can actually relate to the MHz and scores. How many computer users run top-end 4-way?

Totally agree on that part, emphasis in midrange GPUs can be more interesting for many reasons.

SLI with 2x660 Ti give you the possibility for add points in two categories in a lot of benchmarks, single GPU and SLI with two GPUs, while a single high end GPU limit you to a single category.

rbuass · December 29, 2012

There are different things..... to different overclockers.... to different public.

There are people that will be intersted to be #1... to bench always the most powerful hardware... to brake the highest scores and records.... and this, in my point of view, have to be part of the Pro League.

There are people that want to push any hardware to the max... GTX 660... 3600K or even a Core 2 Duo... and the most popular area...

There are beginers that want to learn...and want just to have fun... or even want in the future be the #1.

Please do not misunderstood and kill any categorie....because all them need to work together to keep overclocking alive and make overclocking grow.

Different focus do not mean to remove any focus.

I don't believe to remove the Pro League will be better to Overclocking League...and I will be sure what I am talking here in Brazil.

Most of the people are intersted in learn...grow up...and also in someday go to the top... they were amazed... and for example, yesterday after to get a great scores in Vantage and 3DMark11... after post Facebook our forum thread at 2:00 AM, we got record public with 955 people simultaneous looking for the thread (I can prove).

I think Hwbot have very good ideas about Pro League competitions, and to do competitions around the world... but do not allow to remove the Pro League categorie where I worked high to keep in a good place...and all my friend there that we talk about it, though the same.

So... what we need to do is think about it...make competitions... show its funny... make enthusiast events... joing gaming communities and companies that can help overclocking.

At january 19, we will be a enthusiast overclocking competition, and also extreme competition (this is only one example).

X5 COmputadores will cover in live stream and they are the main sponsors, because will be in their X5 Arena.

They had 400K people in Facebook...and last overclocking Live Streaming bring more than 2000 people simultaneous in the Live Stream and about 25000 viewers (and without no one advertisement).

I agree Splave when he told that each new Rev... people are leaving overclocking scenario.

Make more simple to enthusiast.

Make more competitive to Extreme

Keep Pro Overclocking to show the highest of the new technologies...is what I think.

Best new year for all

|ron · December 29, 2012

You guys gave me an idea (K and saint19): why don't try to increase the number of competitions between users, by limiting frequencies and by not forcing people to buy X-brand hardware to participate?

That would be a test-ground for the things I was saying a few posts ago, to limit frequencies in the OC league.. Instead of modifying the OC league, let's first start in some competitions and let's see how that will turn out. More participation? Less participation?

The other thing that often gets me out from the competitions is: Gigabyte comp (giga, only for example, I could have said MSI, Asus etc...), you must buy Giga mobo and Giga vga, to win a Giga mobo, or a Giga Vga... what's the point in that? I'll not but something I currently don't own, to win the same thing, or maybe a little more expensive mobo or vga by the same brand.

I really appreciated a Gigabyte competition, the LLano one, in which we had to use whatever mobo, a Llano CPU and do several benchmarks: I obtained the second place, beaten by a inch by ElGappo, and I won a mini-itx Giga mobo with Brazos CPU on it.

It was a great comp, I did 3DM11 category record that lasted for many months, with that cpu in that competition, I shared my findings about how to oc, and I really found it stimulating, and the challenge with the other guys was really really funny and interesting!!

That kind of comps, must be increased, I think.

Edited December 29, 2012 by |ron

knopflerbruce · December 29, 2012

...don't forget you won't receive your prizes until a few months later another reason not to invest in such competitions.

I agree that there should be plenty of competitions without vendor specific requirements, but if a vendor is doing this alone, I think that's the only way to do it.

There's one downside to limiting clocks in the OC league that has not been mentioned. What if someone in the OC league actually finds a golden chip. So, he wants to push the chip - but he can't post his results here without moving to the pro league. That alone creates the need for another site, for people without sponsors who don't want limitations - or being forced to participate against sponsored guys on a regular basis.

K404 · December 29, 2012

All of us have to make choices "Do we accept this sponsorship and move to the Pro League as a result of accepting it?"

That's the point of limitations- to LIMIT us! There's no point in putting limitations in place that affect zero people. The point is to keep the playing field level

Back to F1....... every company has some technology or design or feature or tweak that will give them better performance.... but the rules dictate that they can't use it, hence levelling the playing field. Speed limiters are nothing new. Want to race uncapped? Go to a special track with its own special rules.

The problem with setting max MHz based on the hardware average is..... people have to push the hardware enough to find the max.... to find the average. Would the pro league find the max MHz....while everyone else runs at the average? (or decide to move to pro if their chip is good enough to make the move worthwhile.)

|ron · December 29, 2012

Knopfler and K404, in my posts I described a new Rev5 not based on a strong division between Pro and Oc leagues: in fact, I said that if someone not sponsored has a golden chip and wants to push it to its maximum, he could simply post his "unlimited" score in the other league, as well as in the OC league but at proper frequencies.

Same as per the Pro guys: they could post in the Pro league and even in the OC league, by respecting the limits.

That way, nobody will face again the decision to go in the major league or to rest in the normal one. And nobody will say to someone to go in the pro because "you're sponsored", when maybe the other guy only has a little support.

So this will avoid this kind of discussions and will give people more ways to get points: in a more "protected" environment (oc league) and in the "all in" league also.

What do you think 'bout that?

K404 · December 29, 2012

What about "the vast majority" - the guys with no sponsors at all? There is still a good chance they will be fighting for rankings against guys with a lot of sponsored gear.... but with your vision, they are fighting against guys who get to enjoy both worlds and double the exposure to get even more sponsorship.

My comments in my previous post aren't really aimed at anyone in particular or any particular point, just some thoughts I had.

IMO, whatever direction is taken and whatever new rules are put in place, they need to affect more than e.g. 8 people in the world.

Edited December 29, 2012 by K404

rbuass · December 31, 2012

Regardless Hwbot decision... I will always post without no limitations.

For me, the reason of the overclocking is to push to the max... so... will ever try the max score.

Further to me, there are no difference to binning best IMC CPU, Best BLCK CPU or even max of max CPU.

Tweaks to find the best performance to limited clocks, is completely agreed by me... but not to Pro League... to Pro League is completely non sense (please...its only my opinion).

Best new year for all

saint19 · December 31, 2012

The time to receive the prize isn't really important since you already won (IMO), few months back I won something from MSI in Facebook and I received the prize 3 days later, too fast if we keep in mind that I live in the other side of the MSI's Headquarters.

Now, limit the frequency would be "good" in some point, but the general idea of overclocking is get the max of your hardware so, we go in opposite to that. Why not use both ways? Competitions where the frequency is and isn't limited?

Example:

Stage 1: Ivy Bridge SuperPI 32M 4.7GHz max +-5% > All we know that thi limit send us to use tweaks

Stage 2: Ivy Bridge SuperPI 32M not frequency limit

Stage 3: 3DMark xx 660 Ti SLI air or water

Stage 4: 3DMark xx 660 Ti SLI no limit

Just is my idea....

GENiEBEN · January 2, 2013

§saint19

LCC competitions => everyone is suddenly an 'efficient' clocker.

rbuass · January 7, 2013

According what i see... great mistakes.

Please... attempt:

http://hwbot.org/news/8877_2012_hwbot_round_up_most_viewed_results_users_competitions_and_more/

Most Viewed Hardware Item

Without any doubt, combining a Core i7 3770K and Radeon HD 7970 was a must for HWBOT top contenders this year. All around, that setup has the highest potential for generating global points as well as the biggest exposure to the HWBOT audience. It’s quite clear from the list that the crowd here at the bot still loves the high-end, high-performance hardware. By the way, it could very well be that the FX-8150 has the highest viewers per submission ratio: few play, many watch!

1. AMD Radeon HD 7970: 92/100 (hardware index based on 9,142 submissions)

2. Intel Core i7 3770K: 85/100 (hardware index based on 11,850 submissions)

3. Intel Core i7 3930K: 81/100 (hardware index based on 7,563 submissions)

4. Nvidia GeForce GTX 680: 89/100 (hardware index based on 3,715 submissions)

5. Intel Core i5 2500K: 65/100 (hardware index based on 16,644 submissions)

6. Intel Core i7 2600K: 72/100 (hardware index based on 51,039 submissions)

7. Nvidia GeForce GTX 580: 79/100 (hardware index based on 17,161 submissions)

8. Intel Core i5 3570K: 74/100 (hardware index based on 2,303 submissions)

9. Intel Core i7 3960X: 79/100 (hardware index based on 3,522 submissions)

10. AMD FX-8150: 50/100 (hardware index based on 949 submissions)

Are you sure.... Pro League is not intersted????...and the High End hardware is not too important????

I am sure thats a really big mistake to end the Pro league...

Regardless I completely agreed new competitions, agreed to encourage enthusiasts to keep overclocking... I do not agreed to chenge the league that was my inspiration...and is the inspiration of thousands in Brazil.

I believe all the Pro League guys thinking like me....and also many people from Enthusiasts and Extreme.... at least in my country I am sure what I am talking.

Best wishes

Edited January 7, 2013 by rbuass

K404 · January 7, 2013

I do not agreed to chenge the league that was my inspiration...and is the inspiration of thousands in Brazil.
I believe all the Pro League guys thinking like me....and also many people from Enthusiasts and Extreme.... at least in my country I am sure what I am talking.

Best wishes

If all the Pro league guys think the same as you, why do they not speak?

You HAVE inspired many people bro, but you inspired them using the tools and the system that existed. If the method of HWBot had been different, it would have made no difference, you would still love OC, you would still talk about it to the people who listen.

Do not be scared of change without 100% understanding what the change IS You can inspire people with Rev5, you just need to use different words to spread the message.

Y'know.... the rules change in Formula1. The teams don't complain about the changes, they Man up and adjust, because it is still Formula1 and it is still what they love.

Bobnova · January 7, 2013

They don't complain because they don't want to be fined. I bet if you talked to them in the garage they'd bitch for HOURS.

If there's one thing racers love to do other than to drive, it's bitch and moan.

Low clock challenges are nearly impossible to do competitively, people will always cheat. Not everybody, but enough that if you want to be in the prize areas you'll cheat too. It's known as "defensive cheating" in racing.

Worse, it's really easy to cheat in a LCC. Just raise the clocks, and back down for the screenshot. You can even calculate exactly how far to raise the clocks based on the best known efficiency. Without something like CPUz/GPUz running the whole time and logging the clocks in short increments, it won't happen.

Once something like that exists then it will be possible, but the app has to actually work of course, on all versions of windows. Good luck with that.

Limiting HW is much more doable.

Even if we're all using mid range, easily affordable hardware, there's the massive disconnect between us and normal people. We use LN2. At that point we might as well be using different hardware for all it has to do with normal people. Briefly SB got them a lot closer, but those times are over.

We also turn off exactly the same eye candy that most people are turning to ULTRA levels. It's a different world.

rbuass · January 7, 2013

They don't speak... because maybe it will not affect them... the same if you tell why Elmor, Shamino, and others don't mind about this kind of issues.

Andre, Nick, Hicookie, Kingpin... don't need to complain nothing...

In my case... I really worked to be in Pro League... and really worked to spread and teach about overclocking.

We will do a competition at january 19...where will be 2 different categories in the same competition (Enthusiast + Extreme), and it will be covered by lots of thousands of people (yes...you can follow the live stream)... and all this guys thats starting to overclock... will follow the enthusiast to someday can go to extreme.

I really believe in what I am talking friends.... and I am not worry... to me is easier to leave and keep overclocking to the max...

I benched GTX8800...E8600....Celeron....HD5870...GTX480...HD7970...but I am always looking for the next...as always I do.

I really think is nice people overclocking old stuff... sempron....celeron...E8600...9800GTX...and so on... but I really do not understand why don't encourage people to do it...more than before... but keep the F1 to "THE MAX SCORES".

If the Pro League is 77 guys amount 35K..... keep they working and work hard to spread and grow up in other categories...

Instead... if they are not important... I don't know why they were the most viewed... why the high end hardware was the most important items...why the highest score was the most viewed.

knopflerbruce · January 7, 2013

My bet is that in this new competition you'll see highend components also, though not just ONLY those as it is now. At the moment the pro league is an easy way to avoid any sort of older hardware - in my opinion you have to be able to deal with older parts as well as newer parts if you want to be on top of the league which more or less points out who is #1 overall. To me, the overclockers league is the one that truly shows how much skill you've got. You can't get away with a 3770k, a 680 and a 7970 there, you need to know how to deal with a wide variety of hardware.

Massman · January 7, 2013

... but why do you think replacing the League with a Cup also means that there will be no more high-end hardware? The whole point of the Cup is to have something like the League, only with:

- defined timeframe

- small teams instead of users

- smaller selection of hardware and benchmarks

In other words: make the competition-aspect of Pro overclocking more interesting.

Fyi: the Country Cup 2012, held in december this year, had more views than the pro league during entire 2012. I think that says enough about how popular the Pro OC League is.

rbuass · January 7, 2013

All data I posted I got from:

"2012 HWBOT Round-up: Most Viewed Results, Users, Competitions and more!"

That's not my information and I did not create them.... only posted he Hwbot informations.

I also told to keep competitions, but it don't mean to change the pro league.

How to believe and fight to something that change and change... and to fight to grow up, knowing that when Rev 6 arrives, can lose all that work again.

Ex.

First... GTX 295 that was the most important to climb...so, modded, killed and worked with a GTX295

So after... single GPU... changed and we look for the 5870 ...

So after... create a Pro League and only the 15 Global scores and WR,,,,

Now... all the effort from the Pro League guys (Talking about me that NEVER got a VGAs, CPUs, and MBs that's not from my own purchase both expensive LN2)... can "vanish".

I give up... I really told all what I think... that's your decision.

Regardless I don't like you change the Pro League, Hwbot is free to change (change, or remove) the league, and I am free to keep or leave.

Tks

P.S. Maybe hwbot loss intersteed people because input lots of rules to enthusiast league...and new overclockers prefer to overclock for fun instead follow lots of rules...(hardware sharing is only one... that's impossible to prove and still boring)

Edited January 7, 2013 by rbuass

rbuass · January 7, 2013

in my opinion you have to be able to deal with older parts as well as newer parts if you want to be on top of the league which more or less points out who is #1 overall. To me, the overclockers league is the one that truly shows how much skill you've got. You can't get away with a 3770k, a 680 and a 7970 there, you need to know how to deal with a wide variety of hardware.

Sure...

Easy....

Is just to give a 3770K and 680 or 7970 and booom.

Thats created a new Andre Yang.

OMG... easy way

Please.... why thousands and thousands have money and never get amazing scores?

Sure thats important to have golden samples, but belittle the skill of Pro Overclockers and say it is easier is completely non sense.

P.S. Even soppose that if you got great scores with 7970 and 3770K, you just got with E6600... E8600... 5870 before.

Edited January 7, 2013 by rbuass

Mr.Scott · January 7, 2013

They don't speak... because maybe it will not affect them... the same if you tell why Elmor, Shamino, and others don't mind about this kind of issues.
Andre, Nick, Hicookie, Kingpin... don't need to complain nothing...

In my case... I really worked to be in Pro League... and really worked to spread and teach about overclocking.

We will do a competition at january 19...where will be 2 different categories in the same competition (Enthusiast + Extreme), and it will be covered by lots of thousands of people (yes...you can follow the live stream)... and all this guys thats starting to overclock... will follow the enthusiast to someday can go to extreme.

I really believe in what I am talking friends.... and I am not worry... to me is easier to leave and keep overclocking to the max...

I benched GTX8800...E8600....Celeron....HD5870...GTX480...HD7970...but I am always looking for the next...as always I do.

I really think is nice people overclocking old stuff... sempron....celeron...E8600...9800GTX...and so on... but I really do not understand why don't encourage people to do it...more than before... but keep the F1 to "THE MAX SCORES".

If the Pro League is 77 guys amount 35K..... keep they working and work hard to spread and grow up in other categories...

Instead... if they are not important... I don't know why they were the most viewed... why the high end hardware was the most important items...why the highest score was the most viewed.

You my friend, are an attention whore.

rbuass · January 7, 2013

You my friend, are an attention whore.

I know

guerreiro215 · January 8, 2013

In my opinion, Hwbot is less popular not because Pro League issues, but because the massive rules are boring for new benchers. I started as enthusiast, and went to next step (Extreme League), where I am happy and working to go to next step. I am the #1 in my country and Latin America, and am working hard to belong to Pro league, that's my target to 2013. So, I disagree to change the pro League.

Keep the Pro League for the best scores, and best hardware,.... it means...keep the Pro league to the highest is possible without no limitation.

Make more simple to begineers... Encourage people with new competitions

Thats the way to grow up.

sorry for the bad english

Edited January 8, 2013 by guerreiro215

Massman · January 8, 2013

I understand all your concerns and all your points of views ... but the Pro OC Cup is definitely coming. Development is scheduled to start next week .

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