HWBOT 2020 Make it great again Thread:

[Leeghoofd]

Tim uploaded his early wrappers to the uat.hwbot.org test site. Normally this site is like way slower than the daily one, really feels more responsive.

Take note:

The site is not getting new submissions, so the front page is empty till you submit something on uat.

A lot of work still has to be done and the point calculation has not been touched yet.

Also images do not load on the uat version

Some feedback I already provided on some of the new pages:

 

[Leeghoofd]

First test for the new globals at UAT ASSD 2.0

main advantages:

• Points no longer dependant on the top score as you can see in the below example.
• Lower point discrepancy between top 5 ( more competitive ranking )
• More users will get more points ( more attractive to bench )

 

• Popular older gen hardware might loose hardware points from spot 50 on...
• Disadvantage is that top 1-3 might loose points ( depending on the amount of submissions )
  Compare the CB R20 below: 1x Core looses, 2x Cores gains boints

 

 

You can check out and compare the Cinebench R20 new globals at the UAT site

 

[Leeghoofd]

[Mr.Scott]

37 minutes ago, Leeghoofd said:

Hmmmm.......compared my old and new. It's a double edged sword. Yes, more points for everything, yet moved further down the rankings.

[Leeghoofd]

Not everything is recalculated bro (only 2% is done with priority on the new hardware)

Globals are all done, older HW and co is not

[Mr.Scott]

2 minutes ago, Leeghoofd said:

Not everything is recalculated bro, Globals are all done, older HW and co is not

Ahhh............understood.

[klopcha]

I understand that the new system is not functioning yet.

There are problems with scoring points here:

https://hwbot.org/benchmark/cpu_frequency/rankings?hardwareTypeId=processor_2131&cores=1#start=0#interval=20

https://hwbot.org/benchmark/aquamark/rankings?hardwareTypeId=videocard_330&cores=1

https://hwbot.org/benchmark/3dmark2001_se/rankings?hardwareTypeId=videocard_330&cores=1#start=0#interval=20

https://hwbot.org/benchmark/3dmark03/rankings?hardwareTypeId=videocard_330&cores=1#start=0#interval=20

[aperacer]

16 hours ago, Leeghoofd said:

Not everything is recalculated bro (only 2% is done with priority on the new hardware)

Globals are all done, older HW and co is not

How long will the recalculation take?

[Leeghoofd]

10 hours ago, klopcha said:

I understand that the new system is not functioning yet.

There are problems with scoring points here:

https://hwbot.org/benchmark/cpu_frequency/rankings?hardwareTypeId=processor_2131&cores=1#start=0#interval=20

https://hwbot.org/benchmark/aquamark/rankings?hardwareTypeId=videocard_330&cores=1

https://hwbot.org/benchmark/3dmark2001_se/rankings?hardwareTypeId=videocard_330&cores=1#start=0#interval=20

https://hwbot.org/benchmark/3dmark03/rankings?hardwareTypeId=videocard_330&cores=1#start=0#interval=20

Those problems are fixed on uat

https://uat.hwbot.org/benchmark/aquamark/rankings?hardwareTypeId=videocard_330&cores=1#start=0#interval=20

https://uat.hwbot.org/benchmark/3dmark03/rankings?hardwareTypeId=videocard_330&cores=1#start=0#interval=20

2 hours ago, aperacer said:

How long will the recalculation take?

Its manually on UAT, there won't be a global recalculation that would take a week on that server....

[aperacer]

Is there a points cutoff at some point?

https://uat.hwbot.org/benchmark/pifast/rankings?hardwareTypeId=processor_1936&cores=4#start=0#interval=50

Rank 40 receives 47 points and Rank 41 only 0,1

 

Edited December 27, 2021 by aperacer

[Leeghoofd]

Yes  depending on hardware Tim forgot to continue the point calculation, It can happen from spot 21 , 41,... depending on the amount of subs. This will be corrected...

FYI: We discovered that there was no longer any point calculation at the current bot from spot 200 on...

[denvys5]

After short discussion in NotExactInRound, we have come to some conclusions:

1) The main goal of boints is to encourage benching and competition, and current formula update is improving that aspect. It brings motivation to bench different platforms, that were LN2 only (like AM3+, for example)

2) Current "demo" system on UAT is really unbalanced in regards to point curves. Unpopular and mid-popular hardware gives too much for golds, really bad/weak scores (e.g. stock) give too much points, golds in popular hardware give not enough points (to differentiate them from less competitive rankings), global rankings are somewhat broken (e.g. vantage extreme, there worst 20 scores get ~15 boints just for their existence)

3) Broken (in regards to points) platforms became even worse. It is 1155, the worst case of this. Popular platform, and really low score ceiling brings ridiculous point rewards for subs in those categories.

Judging by statements above, we expect that current hardware masters would get less motivation to improve and sub new hardware (even reaching a point there their ~top100 subs have maximum points), while there may come new hardware masters, who would just stockpile junk and make ~stock submissions = non-competitive hw-masters ranking. However, we have expectations that after proper point curve adjustments, and/or implementation of better formula, there will be higher quality of competition in both hardware, global and personal rankings

[Leeghoofd]

Nothing is final bro, also the UAT is only recalculated manually. So its pretty hard to see how balanced it all is. 

Anyway, there will be a 4th sub level introduced eg for less than 25 subs, the maximum points will be 15 iso 35. Now the current levels are 50 and 75 and +100 subs.

Don't you think it is time that user start to bench something else than rebenching the same hardware over and over again?

This new point system is there to reward anybody that wants to bench. with the current setup people don't even bother as they will get 1 point.

Thirdly the gap closes between LN2 and the non extreme users as the points variance is no longer dependant on the top score. Also the discrepancy between eg the top 5 is way less, again making it more competitive or balanced if you want.

Tim programmed this within a few hours and its pretty fast on UAT (which is super slow), but we still need to work on the globals 2D vs 3D

[denvys5]

7 minutes ago, Leeghoofd said:

Nothing is final bro, also the UAT is only recalculated manually. So its pretty hard to see how balanced it all is. 

Tim programmed this within a few hours and its pretty fast on UAT (which is super slow), but we still need to work on the globals 2D vs 3D

Yes, we understand that this is only "demo" and it is nowhere near final. We just give feedback on its current state.

8 minutes ago, Leeghoofd said:

Don't you think it is time that user start to bench something else than rebenching the same hardware over and over again?

This new point system is there to reward anybody that wants to bench. with the current setup people don't even bother as they will get 1 point.

Yes, that is good for health of the system. But it is important to control hardware grinding, which may impact competitiveness of some ranking systems (hw-masters for example). *User* starts benching new platform = good. *User* does good scores and gets rewarded for that = good. *User* subs popular platform in stock and gets rewarded by a lot = not good. *User* subbing 100500 systems in stock to gain hw-masters position = bad. Just an example of a problem, which didn't exist with current system, but may emerge with new one.

Rewarding low scores is ok, but reward shouldnt be too much in relation to actual top-scores. 1155 is good example of that, but we, currently, cant propose solution that would be good for all parties, including performance impact on bot

12 minutes ago, Leeghoofd said:

Thirdly the gap closes between LN2 and the non extreme users as the points variance is no longer dependant on the top score. Also the discrepancy between eg the top 5 is way less, again making it more competitive or balanced if you want.

Yes, that is what we like about this new system the most ?

[Leeghoofd]

Programmer put up another database version for testing, no more sneak preview at the new point system at the moment

[Mr.Scott]

10 hours ago, denvys5 said:

 

Yes, that is good for health of the system. But it is important to control hardware grinding, which may impact competitiveness of some ranking systems (hw-masters for example).

Nothing wrong with grinding bro. Just as much work goes into it as you benching the same vid cards over and over on every new platform that comes out.

You're working over the globals, grinders work over HW points and HW Masters.

Two totally different arenas.

Mad because you can't have your cake and eat it too?

Edited December 28, 2021 by Mr.Scott

[Leeghoofd]

A New Boint Test version is up, I just completed manually the recalculation of all the globals for Processor. It was required to fix over 300 broken subs on production which had no points whatsoever.

What's new: 

Addition of a new Threshold for Globals and Hardware
All points are calculated from first to last now

 

Buglist: SuperPi, CPU Freq and Pifast don't recalculate at the moment ( this was also broken in first test version)

 

[yosarianilives]

3 hours ago, Mr.Scott said:

Nothing wrong with grinding bro. Just as much work goes into it as you benching the same vid cards over and over on every new platform that comes out.

You're working over the globals, grinders work over HW points and HW Masters.

Two totally different arenas.

Mad because you can't have your cake and eat it too?

agreed to some extent, I have an eventual and possibly unreachable goal of every gold on am3 and I can say just running every cpu on am3 is a bit of effort, s775 would probably be even more. I think there should maybe be some tweaking to the points but the concept of the new system is spot on.

[NATA 58]

good job . even we who use h2o as a cold will have the possibility to take some points

[chispy]

Progress , i like ? . Hopefully this new point system will be in place withing 90 days , crossfingers ? , thank you @Leeghoofd and the coder and everyone else involve.

[Leeghoofd]

yeah we need to find a way to either keep the bot up and triger calculations oen by one ( eg socket by socket ) or to shut it down for 2-3 days and do the calculations when the bot is offline.

Coder is looking into it.

In the mean time all have a look of what needs adjustment, I mentioned already before that comparing your current profile with the one on UAT is like comparing apples to oranges as not every hardware has been recalculated.

Only the Globals should give an idea of what to expect.

[aperacer]

Could not the uat Server make the recalculations and once it is finished you could copy the Database? Or would that take way too long?

[Leeghoofd]

UAT only has 2-4 core CPU, hence why it is too slow too handle this ( prolly will take a week or two ) and there are no new scores being updated, nor screenshots saved... so if we put this version back on production users will loose a lot of scores. 

The above is the main reason it might be a better idea to shut down the BOT for a week or so, to allow all the recalcs to be done at ease.

[chispy]

17 hours ago, Leeghoofd said:

UAT only has 2-4 core CPU, hence why it is too slow too handle this ( prolly will take a week or two ) and there are no new scores being updated, nor screenshots saved... so if we put this version back on production users will loose a lot of scores. 

The above is the main reason it might be a better idea to shut down the BOT for a week or so, to allow all the recalcs to be done at ease.

Sounds like a good plan @Leeghoofd , please let us know in advanced when hwbot will be shut down ( dates ) , looking forward to this new point system to be in place , apreciate it the hard work , thank you.

[klopcha]

On 12/27/2021 at 2:04 PM, Leeghoofd said:

Those problems are fixed on uat

Unfortunately, in uat I don't see the correct scoring points too.

Perhaps this is because of the following ?

On 12/27/2021 at 10:26 PM, Leeghoofd said:

Programmer put up another database version for testing, no more sneak preview at the new point system at the moment