Deliberately disabling GPU Cores for 3D Benchmarks

[Guest hammertone]

9 hours ago, der8auer said:

that's essentially how 99% of the rules were created. There is always a grey zone and if it's not forbidden clearly, people will abuse it.

So a big punishment will be to OVIZ Hardware Lab. Who has done very nice cold water scores up there with the best.

He did not need to fudge it 3D

___________

My personal view on this. Future mark and modern 3D is boring with LOD taken away in many benches. Clocks and vcore whoopty doo ?

What is the point, change and upheaval all over again.

How many revisions did the long standing members sit through. Was it 7? Members doing oc 20 years. Old slot 1 and celerons.

Their efforts washed down, points reduced. Enthusiasm diminished. Member leaves.

Over and over. History repeats.

__________________________________

Find myself once again sticking up for the good quality benchmarks. Why? To keep them. As we all enjoy them.

Give your fellow high profile overclockers a kick in the backside instead. Keep 3D01se ?

[der8auer]

9 hours ago, OVIZ Hardware Lab said:

To be honest, the efforts of the "new owners" of HWBOT are not new to let Multi GPU die...

Don't take what I posted out of context please   It's a different story to make benching more affordable for the masses by not focusing on RTX 3090 Ti SLI vs 3DMark2001 with lack of verification and legacy cards.

Regarding the "we can spot it in Nature" argument:

Splave has a valid point here. Now that there has been a huge discussion, everybody knows about it. If Nature is too high, you can simply clock down for the test. This is a massive problem for moderation.

 

[saltycroissant]

5 hours ago, der8auer said:

Splave has a valid point here. Now that there has been a huge discussion, everybody knows about it. If Nature is too high, you can simply clock down for the test. This is a massive problem for moderation.

 

Fully agree with that, not only you can clock down but also only enable crossfire for just Nature test. Because of that the only real way to know if its legit is video proof.... doubt we want to go there for every 01se run.

I understand that this whole thing came at a bad timing during both intel comp.

Im glad the score in question where pulled. But im sad that we'll probably loss 01se because its kinda complicated to moderate. I really hope that if globals are allocated to another benchmark it will have already enough x2-x4 subs to make it worth benching, and even better if it uses the same hardware that was used for 01se.

Edited July 1, 2022 by saltycroissant

[unityofsaints]

Considering the shenanigans that have gone on in 01 singlecard over the years I think it's deeply ironic that multicard is at serious risk of losing points. Similarly I think there are other issues bubbling below the surface like benchmate boosting Cinebench scores, PCMark 10 mouse wiggle, unstable GTs improving 3DMark results and wPrime DLL tweak (to name just a few) that I don't consider big issues at all but in my opinion are worse than what is happening here with multicard legacy 3D. Benchmark diversity is a factor that should be considered too. If we want an easily moderateable and uncheatable HWBot just ban everything except Port Royal and CB20 with benchmate, but then would anyone bother to sub anymore?

[Mr.Scott]

1 hour ago, unityofsaints said:

 but then would anyone bother to sub anymore?

Nope.

No legacy, no Mr.Scott. I guaranty I would not be alone.

Edited July 1, 2022 by Mr.Scott

[Leeghoofd]

7 minutes ago, Mr.Scott said:

No legacy, no Mr.Scott.

In that case 01 stays ?  We are just looking into adjusting maybe the globals in specific multi GPU benchmarks.

Firstly  I'm all in for database consistency and do not applaud benchmarks improving scores due to a wrapper or integrating external software.

Secondly maybe the root of all evil is the definition of a "Tweak", which seems to be very different from one person to another. 

 

[Guest hammertone]

1 hour ago, Leeghoofd said:

In that case 01 stays ?  We are just looking into adjusting maybe the globals in specific multi GPU benchmarks.

 

A happy Saturday then ? My super slow 6hr d/l xp ISO was not for nothing. YaY ? winning 

[shar00750]

Overclocking is my hobby for the last 10-12 year's and i look at it like every hobby. that's mean to have fun and enjoy .

If someone need to cheat that means the oc is not fun anymore in my opinion.

I played a little bit with multi card at the last month and it took me a lot off time to spend. I don't have to much global point with multi so for me it doesn't matter if dis' all global for multi gpu but it's not fair for the other overclockers that spent days and their best money .

I turn to all the overclockers - play fair and enjoy.

To the managers I turn and say, whoever cheated will remove from this community.

[Splave]

People worried about it losing points you are free to still enjoy it and bench it.  No one is stopping you.  

Unfortunately for 01 and 03 with no system info a bad actor aka someone that needs to produce ranking to a sponsor etc can bench not even the same card and make a screen.  We would never know.  ? 

System info alone though is a blessing and a curse.  Take 3dmark11 4x r9 295. Turn off system info and gain 3k points and runs smoothly. Turn it on and everything goes to shit. The process to even get the benchmark to run is a joke let alone one that is valid. You have to start the bench and let the driver immediately fail and don't close the error message. Close 11 or system info will stop working and the next run will pass but not be valid.  Open a new 11 run the bench hope you don't get a random timer error. Rinse and repeate. This isn't even overclocking at this point imo. So system info is the cancer and the cure. 

Idk what the answer is honestly.  Maybe one class with high points use as many cards as you want like 32m or 2d? That essentially makes it single card though. Or keep it and reduce the points to a level that won't attract lustful point whores. Maybe a different bench with better card counting abilities? 

 

Edited July 3, 2022 by Splave

[Guest hammertone]

7 minutes ago, Splave said:

Or keep it and reduce the points to a level that won't attract lustful point whores. Maybe a different bench with better card counting abilities? 

 

won't attract lustful point whores. This too funny

Like as if that's ever going to happen. ? Always chasing points for top spot you guys

eg.

Top overclockers got interest in pcmark 10 and ycruncher. That was mostly ignored before.

 

[Sweet]

Speaking of: degrees of greed, high self-centeredness and unfair competition
When a little honesty and transparent competition solves everything
I feel that sometimes we overclockers are at the stake of the vanities
come on guys a little sincerity and honesty makes us something transcendent.
Here, the only one affected is the site (HWBot) that we all use for free for our macho vanity.
Excuse my strong words but this must end

I totally share and in all his words what was written by @shar00750

Sweet dreams and good night my chichipios del tarro
Ahh and I don't speak english well and I can't pay for the ln2, so what?

Ps and I edit: "The real smart man is the one who looks like an asshole in front of an asshole who seems smart"

Edited July 3, 2022 by Sweet

[saltycroissant]

4 hours ago, Splave said:

People worried about it losing points you are free to still enjoy it and bench it.  No one is stopping you.  

Unfortunately for 01 and 03 with no system info a bad actor aka someone that needs to produce ranking to a sponsor etc can bench not even the same card and make a screen.  We would never know.  ? 

System info alone though is a blessing and a curse.  Take 3dmark11 4x r9 295. Turn off system info and gain 3k points and runs smoothly. Turn it on and everything goes to shit. The process to even get the benchmark to run is a joke let alone one that is valid. You have to start the bench and let the driver immediately fail and don't close the error message. Close 11 or system info will stop working and the next run will pass but not be valid.  Open a new 11 run the bench hope you don't get a random timer error. Rinse and repeate. This isn't even overclocking at this point imo. So system info is the cancer and the cure. 

Idk what the answer is honestly.  Maybe one class with high points use as many cards as you want like 32m or 2d? That essentially makes it single card though. Or keep it and reduce the points to a level that won't attract lustful point whores. Maybe a different bench with better card counting abilities? 

 

The nightmare of AMD drivers is what makes it fun ?

Tho id be sad if they just reduce the points bye bye my ranking since most of it is multiGPU stuff, tbh wouldn't have put money into it if it wasn't worth 100+ globals.

[Papusan]

10 hours ago, hammertone said:

Top overclockers got interest in pcmark 10 and ycruncher. That was mostly ignored before.

Because of the added points to stay on top? Easy talk about why bother with points if are on top of the points ranking. This doesn’t help the newbies or those on middle level that try increas their ranking. 

Edited July 3, 2022 by Papusan

[Guest hammertone]

17 minutes ago, Papusan said:

Because of the added points to stay on top? Easy talk about why bother with points if are on top of the points ranking. This doesn’t help the newbies or those on middle level that try increas their ranking. 

Sure I get that. It will be tough ask on learners. Rookies Enthusiasts etc.

But many will have a 12900K system + big gpu. So they can still go well

HWbot did do an overall points increase for benefit of oc and submit scores recently.

Do more work, that makes them more points. ?

[Papusan]

21 minutes ago, hammertone said:

Sure I get that. It will be tough ask on learners. Rookies Enthusiasts etc.

But many will have a 12900K system + big gpu. So they can still go well

HWbot did do an overall points increase for benefit of oc and submit scores recently.

Do more work, that makes them more points. ?

Loosening points because of a few top benchers is still not nice. And many buy older hardware to try increase in ranking. A couple of newest HW won’t help much try come higher. Removing more and more benchmarks or points only because of a few make it less fun. But what do I know. 
Edit. Yep I know that they changed the bot to the better. Huge thanks for that. 
As a side note. The older 3D benchmarks is very fun to run. 

Edited July 3, 2022 by Papusan

[Guest hammertone]

You did see though members in here writing to keep 3D01se. Passionate writing some of them

Many of us like the old benchmarks.

What can the people running HWbot do. Making changes, never benefits everyone.

With global on 03 and 01 now we do see top overclockers hitting this with vitality. It's a good thing

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/vitality

So much interest in the old benchmarks ? keeps them alive.

________________________________________________________________

Water scores can still do well in this. More popular the benchmark, members new to it can make better points

[Splave]

No one wants to lose points or to make benches die because they are no longer valuable. But what about people that spend time and money to compete on the top end. When it's too easy to cheat it needs to get removed. I had 01 dual card gold worth 200+ points all it required was a 7ghz cpu and still voted to remove points after spending $750 on 590s. 

I think people like to trash ln2 benchers a bit what we call "elite" hate behind closed doors...but I don't see companies sponsoring hwbot comps for ddr1 ddr2 platforms or Intel sponsoring 775 competitions. So ln2 users should have some say I think ? 

[ViNsTeR777]

The only subs i will post that dont have video proof is stock speed subs like the lappy i benched yday, other than that every overclocked sub will have video link as im not getting called a cheat again, as for the the top end of the scale, why shouldnt you have to provide a video, i kinda like doing the vids now, there will be no question of cheating if proof is provided, in this day an age how hard is it to source a web cam or a smart phone, unless people have something to hide i dont see the problem with making video proof a thing

[Mr.Scott]

15 minutes ago, Splave said:

No one wants to lose points or to make benches die because they are no longer valuable. But what about people that spend time and money to compete on the top end. When it's too easy to cheat it needs to get removed. I had 01 dual card gold worth 200+ points all it required was a 7ghz cpu and still voted to remove points after spending $750 on 590s. 

I think people like to trash ln2 benchers a bit what we call "elite" hate behind closed doors...but I don't see companies sponsoring hwbot comps for ddr1 ddr2 platforms or Intel sponsoring 775 competitions. So ln2 users should have some say I think ? 

There's been 'elite hate' forever. You knew that going in. Don't use that excuse, you're bigger than that.

I've known you since you were a noob and watched you rise to what you are now. Please explain to me how you thought this 'tweak' was OK, because to me it's blatantly not.

Edited July 3, 2022 by Mr.Scott

[Mr.Scott]

7 minutes ago, ViNsTeR777 said:

 dont see the problem with making video proof a thing

It's an added pain in the ass. Takes all the fun out of the hobby. 

[ViNsTeR777]

 

4 minutes ago, Mr.Scott said:

It's an added pain in the ass. Takes all the fun out of the hobby. 

i actually think it adds to the fun

[Splave]

1 hour ago, Mr.Scott said:

There's been 'elite hate' forever. You knew that going in. Don't use that excuse, you're bigger than that.

I've known you since you were a noob and watched you rise to what you are now. Please explain to me how you thought this 'tweak' was OK, because to me it's blatantly not.

Never done it myself fortunately. Def don't think it should be ok not sure what you mean. I'm for removing points. 

 

Video proof is guilty until proven innocent. 

[FireKillerGR]

3 hours ago, Splave said:

No one wants to lose points or to make benches die because they are no longer valuable. But what about people that spend time and money to compete on the top end. When it's too easy to cheat it needs to get removed. I had 01 dual card gold worth 200+ points all it required was a 7ghz cpu and still voted to remove points after spending $750 on 590s. 

I think people like to trash ln2 benchers a bit what we call "elite" hate behind closed doors...but I don't see companies sponsoring hwbot comps for ddr1 ddr2 platforms or Intel sponsoring 775 competitions. So ln2 users should have some say I think ? 

These benchmarks are pretty much the ones that require a bit of additional effort vs casual 2D where competition is pretty much more "exclusive" for others to get into.

Its the benchmarks that are open for everyone with just a decent cpu to get a couple of cards, spend the time and claim some decent points to rank up. Without these, the current ranking system favors cpu bin-to-compete even more.
 

17 hours ago, hammertone said:

won't attract lustful point whores. This too funny

Like as if that's ever going to happen. ? Always chasing points for top spot you guys

eg.

Top overclockers got interest in pcmark 10 and ycruncher. That was mostly ignored before.

 

100% agree. No reason to hide behind our finger here.

Not one of us the more competitive guys ran multi-GPU 01 since it got its points disabled a few years ago.
But at the same time, the point is that these benchmarks also help less competitive ocers gain some points assuming they put some effort in and get them through the experience of solving any potential issues. Something that they can carry on for future benchmarks/cases.

Edited July 3, 2022 by FireKillerGR

[Splave]

Some could argue that the rest of 3d is for binned gpu guys only as well though.  ? I don't see anyone that buys their own card in the top 5 for current gpu ranks. 

[FireKillerGR]

8 hours ago, Splave said:

Some could argue that the rest of 3d is for binned gpu guys only as well though.  ? I don't see anyone that buys their own card in the top 5 for current gpu ranks. 

well, dont wanna be cocky but we can be a good example as we competed till the release of the 3090 HOF (so for at least 3+ months) last year and stayed within top 3 on all 3D benchmarks with a store bought 3090 Strix. On top of that nor the 3090 or the 3090 ti were pre-binned cards (we just benched the better one of those we got in each case)
Our 3.3+GHz 6900XT was also store bought (retail priced, as was the 3090 strix).

3D has much more room to get into (the higher ranks) than 2D benchmarks but also requires more effort/time.

If you bring cost into the discussion I can easily tell you that we would pay the same exact money we did for those 2 cards, to own a cpu that will rule the 2D rankings for a season (not like the gpus last for much longer anyway).
Eventually u can spend 4k to buy like 5-6x 12900KS and you will still most likely be far off the top 3 scores/cpus.

Edited July 4, 2022 by FireKillerGR