PCMark05 , keep or remove from hwbot.

[knopflerbruce]

+1, calling cheat left and right is wrong, and some sort of punishment is fair.

 

As for device manager storage tab - great idea!

[El Gappo]

Running things like powertoy for pcmark, imo, is like turning up to a marathon with roller-blades on and saying you've optimized your shoes. You don't have faster legs.... it's not the way it's meant to be run.

 

Allowing it just because you can't moderate it would be ridonkulous and would completely invalidate the current database.

[Gomeler]

I'm all for opening this benchmark up. It is a given that pro will hack the shit out of windows to maximize the scores but isn't that the goal of benchmarking? Most performance possible regardless? If that isn't then we might want to reconsider our unhealthy LN2 consumption habits.

 

Running things like powertoy for pcmark, imo, is like turning up to a marathon with roller-blades on and saying you've optimized your shoes. You don't have faster legs.... it's not the way it's meant to be run.

 

Allowing it just because you can't moderate it would be ridonkulous and would completely invalidate the current database.

 

I think you are mistaken. Encoder tweaks(which powertoy just makes easy) is like training at 10,000 feet for a marathon at sea level.

[Massman]

I think any marathon analogy for overclocking fails by default.

[Gomeler]

I think any marathon analogy for overclocking fails by default.

 

Except for those with 180L dewars dumping into their pots

[Gautam]

so everything allowed? you sure you want to make that a rule? im happy with it but i dont want to hear any complains when..

 

thats all day every day

 

What would you suggest?

[pro]

What would you suggest?

 

im all for opening up the benchmark, im all for opening up all the benchmarks, but i am hesitant to what may occur when someone discovers something new in the future..

 

regardless we need to stick with

 

1. no programs that change the benchmark perception of its score

2. no mft of ramdisk

 

alternatively we could specifically change our rules to open up these known tweaks.. but what happens when the skilled Greek's find something new and John Doe cant work it out, or someone bugs the bench and cant explain it... we fall back into the same cycle with this bench as its at now..

[pro]

I'm all for opening this benchmark up. It is a given that pro will hack the shit out of windows to maximize the scores but isn't that the goal of benchmarking? Most performance possible regardless?

 

 

AMEN, i agree with this, as long as what your doing falls under the existing rules,

 

our on going issue is people find something that is within the rules but are forced to give it out regardless if they want to or not, just to not be labelled a cheat,

 

i dont expect hazzan to let me use his graphics card because its not fair i dont have one (even though im jealous as hell) and i dont expect hazzan to expect me to give him a tweak because he feels its not fair

 

and hazzan you know i love you, just using your name for the example

[Guest subzero]

i think with a benchmark we want to measure overall performance ,hardware-software depend,p es we know cuda is faster on video encoding than cpu cores,

when we go to do a video encoding we use 1024x768 or higher resolution,no 12x12 pixels,i want to say yes allow powertoy but only at the native resolutions of pc mark(1280x768,or 10280x1024)with the other options you have a minimal gain ,circa 80-100 points

allow video driver tweaking

internet explorer 36 pages is an internet explorer built in options-settings and not hack

xp startup :same cap @220mb

sceedshoot of hd -raids on sytem or ss of aida with windows storage raids ecc

2xcpu-z,gpuz,2 ss with all subscores+futuremark verification

video encoding is easy to moderate

you dont have with os tweaks a gain bigger than 200

its ipossible to have both video encoding+video encoding very high(unless you use 5900+++sb or 6400+++980x)

thanks for your patience

regards transparent windows is not illegal to move your mouse(aero refresh rate)

Edited July 29, 2011 by subzero

[chispy]

Interesting different points of view ...

 

As I see it right now its everything and anything goes, except MFT Software and No Software Ram-Disk , That or Remove it completely out of hwbot , i believe thats the only 2 options , If not , it will be imposible to moderate this benchmark.

 

Also why should i keep Cripeling Real Time Performance of my storage set up with the 220 cap xp start up in 2011, i find that rule so old and outdated and not reflecting reality and up to date hardware , when we have hardware available able to do much more than that since 2006~2007. When this benchmark its about real time performance then you might consider putting a cap to video encoding , web browsing test and the rest of the sub-test also, If you keep the 220 xp start up and do not remove that old outdated Rule then all the new tweaks going by that same analogy caps will have to be applied on all subtests then.

 

It would be nice for hwbot to step it up a little and make a desision , My Wife its about to give birth to my new Baby in about 8~10 weeks and my newborn Baby will be in my hands and I wont be able to bench for at least 6~9 months due to becoming a father 24/7 its no easy task .

Edited July 29, 2011 by chispy

[Mr.Scott]

My Wife its about to give birth to my new Baby in about 8~10 weeks and my newborn Baby will be in my hands and I wont be able to bench for at least 6~9 months due to becoming a father 24/7 its no easy task .

Congratulations Angelo.

You'll still have time to bench......for a little while anyway. It's when they get older you get a lot less time.

[SteveRo]

+1 with Mr. Scott, congrats Mr. Chispy! If this is your 1st one, yes there is a little lifestyle shock coming but you'll be fine! Come back and check on us from time to time!

[chispy]

Thank you Mr.Scott and Mr.SteveRo for the good vibes , much appretiated.

[Sweet]

My Wife its about to give birth to my new Baby in about 8~10 weeks and my newborn Baby will be in my hands and I wont be able to bench for at least 6~9 months due to becoming a father 24/7 its no easy task .

 

 

Thank you Mr.Scott and Mr.SteveRo for the good vibes , much appretiated.

 

Wonderful..!!!, Angelo mis Felicitaciones a tu esposa y a vos !!!!

 

(Esto merece realmente ser escrito en idioma nativo !!!)

 

Is the most beautiful that can happen in life

 

Cheers

 

Sw- Alex

 

Ps: I decided to vote for : removed PCMark05 from hwbot, after reading everything, I get the feeling that this is no longer a benchmark.

Edited July 30, 2011 by Sweet

[chispy]

Wonderful..!!!, Angelo mis Felicitaciones a tu esposa y a vos !!!!

 

(Esto merece realmente ser escrito en idioma nativo !!!)

 

Is the most beautiful that can happen in life

 

Cheers

 

Sw- Alex

 

Gracias Alex , Thank you.

[chispy]

Has hwbot taken any actions yet , please i would like to hear if theres an update or a plan, Massman or RichBastard please update the community ? Has been 8 days since we started the poll and no action has been taken yet ???

 

Regareds: Angelo

Edited July 31, 2011 by chispy

[Turrican]

we are working on it.

[chispy]

we are working on it.

 

Thank you very much Turrican for the update , much appretiated.

[Leeghoofd]

I voted : Just keep it and add a few new rules...

 

But don't raise XP startup : as it will be far too easy to set new records with better "future" storage devices. At least it makes it a challenge to tune that particular test...

 

But all those with silly encoding and co results must be rejected... even the scores from Down Under...

[knopflerbruce]

The best would be to eliminate the xp startup from the score, but not sure how that's possible.

[Massman]

It's completely impossible.

[knopflerbruce]

It's completely impossible.

 

Then the best would be to remove the limit, or make it so high that you can actually run an acard setup without having problems. Invalid score because "you hardware is too fast" is ridiculous... maybe interesting in some way, but it's totally against everything overclocking is about - we do this ti INCREASE the performance of our systems, not cripple it. Yes, it will make older scores worthless to some point, but that's what will happen anyway if we end up allowing more tweaks than before, which is pretty much the only outcome anyway, as it's impossible to moderate it like it is today.

[Massman]

Proposal:

 

Before we consider removing the benchmark, we try with new and updated rules. If turns out there are many problems even with the new rules, we can always remove the benchmark. The new rules include:

 

- No ramdisk or MFT software allowed

- XP startup cap removed

- Benchmark must run on default web browser (Internet Explorer, any version) and default audio/video codec

- Browser enhancement tweaks such as disabling/removing features, plugins, make-up etc are allowed

- Audio and video codec tweaks are allowed. Powertoy is, as GUI for the registry, allowed

 

Note: as any other benchmark, PCMark05 an still give bugged runs as output. When the moderating staff comes across a result that seems out of line for the given setup, we can (and will) contact the user for more information. In that case, the score can of course be approved if the higher performance is the result of extensive tweaking. Usually bugged runs are far out of line and easy to spot.

 

The XP startup cap removal is open for discussion. I would suggest to either keep it at 220MB/s or remove it completely; increasing the limit will just post-pone the current problem and it will be brought up in the future again. I'm fine either way: with or without cap limit.

 

Let us know what you think.

[pro]

Looks good to me, I would vote to keep to keep hd startup, but I'm cool with whatever tbh

 

You gotta remember every benchmark bugs and it'll always happen, so let's treat that situation with respect when it happens and not make the person feel alienated

[Christian Ney]

just an idea that came to mind.

Remove actual pcmark05 (this means keep current scores, points, golds) like you did with sisoftsandra(aka remove the ability to submite results).

Then add the new pcmark05 with rules reworked(different ranking than the old pcmark05).

 

doing so old pcmark05 results will not be so easy beaten by the new rules, imo its fair