M.Beier Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 First off, I did not want to make this a witch hunt on Viss, but he is the only one of which it has been publicly stated about recently, of which I remember.... The section is 'discuss' and that is what I hope can be done, a discussion about what is 'ok' and what isnt... So here goes; Someone works for a vendor, bins hardware, lets say 100 CPU's - he/she HAS to be in PRO LEAGUE. Someone works at a store or is related, bins hardware, lets say 500 CPU's he/she can be in OC LEAGUE. Now my opinion on this; Pick up your balls, do the decent thing, join PRO LEAGUE when binning freely or for the 1 piece that you actually end up buying... OC LEAGUE is for people that has it as a very expensive hobby, and go all the way, LN2. Viss is a TALENTED OC'er, and a good tweaker, I only use him as example because its quite official that it is happening in his case... There are many people in OC league, that manipulate the competition by binning several hundred CPU's and using it in OC League.... I really dont get why people are 'afraid' of PRO league, does points really matter that much? Does honor have no place? I thought that the Andre/HIWA/many other bust would be a wake up call for people to show some decency, unfortunately, it seems I was wrong.. So voice your opinion.... What do YOU think about this? OC League or mandatory PRO League? PS: Not 10 days ago, someone came bragging to me, about binning 200 Ivy, for a profile listed as OC League. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K404 Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 How do you prove it, where do you draw the line? TECHNICALLY, having access to bin 200 CPUs for free, then buying the best two, is more legit than just buying a pre-binned mega chip from the CPU mafia.... at least those people are doing the work themselves BUT...... yes, some people have to buy each and every CPU they test and there is a divide between people with access and people without. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crew Leeghoofd Posted May 9, 2012 Crew Share Posted May 9, 2012 (edited) Does binning imply you will find a golden sample ? nope Your chances are bigger, but that's where it ends... If you had the access to 200 CPUs ? Wouldn't you do it ? Does that mean you automatically have to be in pro league ? Maybe you just OC CPU on air/water ( SB case ) It will always be unfair Marc. I have access to maybe 250 CPUs, but hardly bench LN2, hardly/never ever any GPUs on LN2... Am I forced to be in pro league ? I have no issue with it, but I'll be dead last. Maybe it's my destiny to close the ranks lol... Does anyone, like Kenny stated, being able to buy a 4000 dollar cherry CPU need to be forced to pro league ? If you receive manufacturer support, bench with latest ES CPU's then it's straight Pro. I receive ES for reviews, but give them CPU's to PJ so he can bench on them as I have no time. Usually they go back to Intel after a few weeks... So in fact all reviewers here at HWBOT should be in Pro league too... It's a thin line, I don't see shop support (not talking about freebies) in the same way as getting free bench hardware from the manufacturer directly ( with maybe not real retail parts ) Edited May 9, 2012 by Leeghoofd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Beier Posted May 9, 2012 Author Share Posted May 9, 2012 Yep; I think when having the established contacts, to do something that a regular PC enthuciast cannot do, you belong in the pro league... Everyone 18+ can buy a pot at kingpincooling or another seller, and then buy LN2 at AGA/Airliquide etc... It is not restricted, no entry barriers, I think once there are entry barriers, something that everyone cant do, be it a CPU from Intel (ES), bin for a store.... Buy on black market (which officially is illigal), then pro league. I dont think pro league should be restricted to 20-50 people, but have several hundred, after all, how many members does HWBot have? What are the descriptions of each category? Is it a 'penalty' to be in pro league? Is it a negative? EDIT; And yes, I think all media belongs to pro league, when there isnt a speciel media league Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K404 Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 IMO, it cannot be as blanket as that. If someone sends me e.g....a PSU, I should move to Pro League? How exactly does one PSU give me an advantage over everyone else? Same for a memory kit. What if it's not a competitive kit? I hope this makes sense.... there is "access," "Access," and "ACCESS" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafio Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 would be interesting to know how these shops get rid of these pretested and than discarded CPUs... i never saw a shop stating (except maybe pctweaker.de in the bloomfield days) "we are selling pretested CPU" so i assume they are selling them as brand new. to be 100% safe i don't buy anything from shops i know are "close" to overclockers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amdnord Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 the pretested CPUs are goin to end in a ready-to-go-PC (i think so ) like this (http://www.plaisio.gr/Computers/Desktop/PC/Turbo-X-Cerberus-G3450.htm) and this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883227410) and and and. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafio Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 i don't know how legal it is, they are selling you stuff as brand new but instead they are building your PC (sold as bran new) with used and pretested parts. i still won't buy anything from a shop that does this kind of things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K404 Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 AFAIK, the chips "released" to be binned by local OCers are used in OEM machines. They're going to be tested anyway before sale That discussion is seperate to this one and.... not really HWBs problem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Beier Posted May 9, 2012 Author Share Posted May 9, 2012 Well I think that we, the community have a responsibility of keeping the sport clean.... Some would say "you are jealouse", might be.. But hey I get free hw often? I am not complaining in this regard... What bothers me, is that we are setting high entry barriers, scaring off the people wanting to persuit overclocking or more specific, benchmarking on hwbot.. People wont bother, when knowing there is no chance.... Now long ago, Hwbot did an amazing thing, introduced pro league, Andre, Hicookie and others doing extreme binning for vendors could go here, it works as a PR reference for the companies, without squezing the normal bloke wanting to compete... I started OC and benchmarking back in the days, of which you could make a top20 futuremark submissions, with a setup worth less than 1500 USD, if I didnt start, I sure as hell wouldnt start knowing that my brand new 4000 USD+ setup would just get run over by people with the right contacts in OC League. --- And honestly I couldnt care less about the stores interest, it is good that they are taking care of overclockers, though I wish it was with focus on community, not specific individuals, but that said - the main issue as I see it, is when those individuals dont have the balls to join PRO League... It is up to us, to 'decide' what is considered acceptable, and what isnt, the honor codec... Sure people can break it, not follow, and the crew wont be able to spot for a long time, but so what? Is spotting the troublemakers a valid reason for not setting rules? I only one person that truely believes this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.M.O.G. Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 (edited) I don't perceive a problem. I think people should choose to join Pro league if they have the industry contacts to warrant it, and if they wish to. I've reached top 10 in US and top 75 in the world the old fashioned way mostly - the same way anyone can do it... Run hardware worth a lot of hwboints (buy used stuff to cut costs), buy massive quantities of LN2, and fortunately, I have a team of people that tell me how to run benchmarks correctly and teach me. I manage Overclockers.com, but I haven't used that position to get CPUs/GPUs for benchmarking. I know many writers who may get a sample or two a year, I also don't think they should be forced to pro league when benching is just a hobby for them. If I had access to bin dozens of CPUs/GPUs, I would join the pro league, because that would personally make sense to me. I don't think we should force that on people. There is a lot of grey area and this is a hobby, intended to be fun - there are no clear lines, and it is unfair to make the decision for people IMO. Hell, half the time points aren't even calculated correctly. It's just for fun. Getting too caught up in the politics detracts from that. Trying to make hwbot a pure representation of skill, or seeing it that way, is a joke. Many low ranked benchers are skilled, but don't have funds/time/access... The top of the ranking is not always the most skilled, its just the people who have actually managed to do the benching (I can name 10 off the top of my head on my team that are better benchers than me, but I am ranked higher than them). That doesn't make it less worthwhile, or less impressive. I think problems come in when viewing hwbot as a skill based ranking - it should be accepted that ranking represents many factors, of which skill is only one. Accept that others have some advantages. Edited May 9, 2012 by I.M.O.G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q56_Monster Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Where is this CPU mafia? Can someone direct me, cause that sounds good to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnksss Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 First off, I did not want to make this a witch hunt on Viss, but he is the only one of which it has been publicly stated about recently, of which I remember.... The section is 'discuss' and that is what I hope can be done, a discussion about what is 'ok' and what isnt... So here goes; Someone works for a vendor, bins hardware, lets say 100 CPU's - he/she HAS to be in PRO LEAGUE. Someone works at a store or is related, bins hardware, lets say 500 CPU's he/she can be in OC LEAGUE. Now my opinion on this; Pick up your balls, do the decent thing, join PRO LEAGUE when binning freely or for the 1 piece that you actually end up buying... OC LEAGUE is for people that has it as a very expensive hobby, and go all the way, LN2. Viss is a TALENTED OC'er, and a good tweaker, I only use him as example because its quite official that it is happening in his case... There are many people in OC league, that manipulate the competition by binning several hundred CPU's and using it in OC League.... I really dont get why people are 'afraid' of PRO league, does points really matter that much? Does honor have no place? I thought that the Andre/HIWA/many other bust would be a wake up call for people to show some decency, unfortunately, it seems I was wrong.. So voice your opinion.... What do YOU think about this? OC League or mandatory PRO League? PS: Not 10 days ago, someone came bragging to me, about binning 200 Ivy, for a profile listed as OC League. so..if i buy 100 cpus with my own money, does this mean im in pro league? and if out of those 100 cpus i find 10 good ones. and sell 6 of them, does this also mean i'm in the cpu mafia? and the people receiving these cpus...does this mean they to have to join pro league because they bought a binned chip from a guy who spent his own money and time and his own ln2 to find out? just asking.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planet Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 So Marc since you have received samples for OC when will you be switching to the pro league? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndreYang Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 i paid for 100 pcs retail 3770K myself to bin. Could i ask to move to oc league? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viss Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 (edited) lol wth are you on about m.beier? I dont really care about what leage i am or should be in BUT what i do know for damn sure its not you who wil have anything to say about it. Get your facts straight, you dont even know who i am nor what i do (and im rather happy to keep that like it is ) Every single CPU i have binned (and believe me you would be surprised by the actual number, its not that many at all) i have paid for myself. 200?? not even close, divide it by 5 for all SB, SB-E and IB chips i have tested so far and you wil be real close to the actual number. Every now and then i can return a used chip to swap it or lend a card for a week but thats the only benefit i have from a local store as far as CPU's/GPU's are concerned, and no i dont work there, i have been a (good) customer there for the last years so they are happy to help me out. Lately i have been surprised by the complaints of some of the members of this community regarding leages, ES chip and vendor support. I have read you whining about it recently in many topics however i dont recall any OC numbers from you from the last couple of years. Why do you think Intel would send out chips or GBT would actually care for you to be at any meeting if you dont bench? I just dont get it. Bench more and complain less my friend, and please never forget that in the end its only a PC we are bussy with :up: Edited May 9, 2012 by Viss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planet Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 i paid for 100 pcs retail 3770K myself to bin. Could i ask to move to oc league? I approve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Beier Posted May 9, 2012 Author Share Posted May 9, 2012 Where is this CPU mafia? Can someone direct me, cause that sounds good to me. Not sure if serious so..if i buy 100 cpus with my own money, does this mean im in pro league?and if out of those 100 cpus i find 10 good ones. and sell 6 of them, does this also mean i'm in the cpu mafia? and the people receiving these cpus...does this mean they to have to join pro league because they bought a binned chip from a guy who spent his own money and time and his own ln2 to find out? just asking.... By all means, if you buy yourself, its not a problem, but if you buy with the purpose of selling, making a profit, it is a profession, wouldnt you agree? So Marc since you have received samples for OC when will you be switching to the pro league? Hwbot is not flawless, I did select pro league when it was created, as I receive samples... However, I have never really been acused of hunting hwbot points? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planet Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Hwbot is not flawless, I did select pro league when it was created, as I receive samples... However, I have never really been acused of hunting hwbot points? Well why have you not created a thread or PM'd Massman like Punx did? http://hwbot.org/forum/showthread.php?t=46062 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crew Leeghoofd Posted May 9, 2012 Crew Share Posted May 9, 2012 i paid for 100 pcs retail 3770K myself to bin. Could i ask to move to oc league? nooooooooooooooo, enthousiast league only for you Andre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnksss Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Not sure if serious By all means, if you buy yourself, its not a problem, but if you buy with the purpose of selling, making a profit, it is a profession, wouldnt you agree? Hwbot is not flawless, I did select pro league when it was created, as I receive samples... However, I have never really been acused of hunting hwbot points? nope. im just trying to make some of my money back from all this "time wasted on finding a good chip to compete with" now how is that professionalism? im just suppose to take a 31k loss and just love it? you might be able to afford that but i can't. i need to take what i need and sell the rest. am i to also understand that it's no problem when i sell to people who dont frequent the bot? or do i still fall in the pro league or professionalism? i understand if intel just handed them to me (dont think i would be broad casting that either) ,but then that would be another story.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Expat GriZ Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 (edited) First off, I did not want to make this a witch hunt on Viss, but he is the only one of which it has been publicly stated about recently, of which I remember.... The section is 'discuss' and that is what I hope can be done, a discussion about what is 'ok' and what isnt... So here goes; Someone works for a vendor, bins hardware, lets say 100 CPU's - he/she HAS to be in PRO LEAGUE. Someone works at a store or is related, bins hardware, lets say 500 CPU's he/she can be in OC LEAGUE. Now my opinion on this; Pick up your balls, do the decent thing, join PRO LEAGUE when binning freely or for the 1 piece that you actually end up buying... OC LEAGUE is for people that has it as a very expensive hobby, and go all the way, LN2. Viss is a TALENTED OC'er, and a good tweaker, I only use him as example because its quite official that it is happening in his case... There are many people in OC league, that manipulate the competition by binning several hundred CPU's and using it in OC League.... I really dont get why people are 'afraid' of PRO league, does points really matter that much? Does honor have no place? I thought that the Andre/HIWA/many other bust would be a wake up call for people to show some decency, unfortunately, it seems I was wrong.. So voice your opinion.... What do YOU think about this? OC League or mandatory PRO League? PS: Not 10 days ago, someone came bragging to me, about binning 200 Ivy, for a profile listed as OC League. Who are you??? The OCing Police????? well....some people have too much time on their hands....... not only are you COMPLETELY WRONG ....but very mislead and uninformed. Where has this been publicly stated for a start? More misinformed people beaking off? "Someone works for a vendor, bins hardware, lets say 100 CPU's - he/she HAS to be in PRO LEAGUE." Bart pays for every CPU he bins. Is this a problem? He does NOTwork for a vendor and has NO affiliation with any manufacturer. "Someone works at a store or is related, bins hardware, lets say 500 CPU's he/she can be in OC LEAGUE." Bart's job is about as far away from the IT industry as you can get, unless you do what I do ......binning off your own back and money automatically puts you in the "Pro League"? He does NOT work for a computer shop, is not related to ANYONE of note in the industry... and last time I checked....had a part time job in a bar to help pay for this expensive hobby of ours. As the guy who took the time to invite me over for a session so I could watch and learn a few years ago, when others scoffed at my requests, Bart has shown and been a role model of integrity and sharing knowledge with an old Canuck who greatly appreciates his friendship and dedication. You couldn't be more wrong in your assumptions ....and you know what assuming will get you.....but your reputation preceeds you. Enough said ......you asked for opinions.....I give you facts. Edited May 9, 2012 by Expat GriZ sp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massman Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 I don't really take this thread so seriously. I agree with what Viss said ... in the end overclocking is supposed to be a hobby. If you can get store managers (not into overclocking) involved in this awesome hobby, do it. Spread the love! I also love how Maj0r tested some chips and beat Andre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndreYang Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Are you sure I dont have magic 7 retail, massman? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planet Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 I don't really take this thread so seriously. I agree with what Viss said ... in the end overclocking is supposed to be a hobby. If you can get store managers (not into overclocking) involved in this awesome hobby, do it. Spread the love! I also love how Maj0r tested some chips and beat Andre Can we please move Marc to Pro League since he receives samples? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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